Which class makes you go urrrgh!*facepalm*

[Asketes]

Barbarians.

I was traumatized by a series of Barbarians on my first character, a dwarven Cleric. Now, I avoid them, even when I am not playing a healing class.

Nothing quite like having a Warforged Barbarian with no Healer's Friend and no AC in an Irestone Elite run at level 5. Especially when he THINKS 'High Hitpoints = Tank."

They still give me the heebie jeebies.

lol where do I start

1) high hp and dps is a tank in this game
2) warforged generally should NOT take more than healer's friend 1
3) people need to keep themselves healed up (at that level it's extremely easy to)
4) you avoid some of the best dps in the game then
5) /sigh at lvl 5 you won't be much of a healer lol
6) when you get heal, it's fairly easy to keep up any half-decent wf

[Bodic]

12<melee>/8<arcane>
or the other way around
the BAB is too low for anything past the desert, and arcanes have a DC of useless

This seems unlikely

/Agreed they have a clicky for BAB and FW has no DC

[Bodic]

Irestone Elite run at level 20 for favor and Ioun stones only

This

[Malison]

Sometimes I send tells to requesting players with a "What role do you fill" question. It can spark a nice discussion. I almost never deny entrance based on a class configuration. Who knows, I might learn something interesting from the exchange.

I like this question. It's a lot friendlier than the "What are you" types I've gotten on my stranger builds.

re: OP, I'll usually take any class combinations unless I need the spot for a key role they can't fill. It really is fun to see crazy ideas working. Definitely a lot more fun than seeing cookie-cutter builds failing. The most impressive toons I've seen have been a 8/6/6 stun/AA/tank and a pure wizard intimi.

[Atree]

When I post an LFM I take the first 5 people that hit it and meet the very basic requirement of being in the level range I specified. I will generally auto-decline anyone above or below that range unless they first send a tell asking if it is permissable. I will also start heading to the quest and enter it as soon as I get to the entrance, adding "- in progress" to the LFM description.

I have had occasions where I forgot to take down the LFM upon completion and only notice when someone applies. In such cases I will decline, remove the LFM and send an appologetic tell.

In the f2p quests I expect at least half the puggers will contribe mainly to dungeon scaling, dungeon alert and -10%xp making the quest more of a fun challenge. If even one proves capable and actually helps out that is a wonderful surprise.

I don't have a mic, but will go out of my way to type "Hi" to every new joiner. I respond to questions, type warnings about upcoming traps/ambushes, offer advice, try to keep as much agro as I can on myself to spare the squishies and throw mass cures/bursts instead of just self-healing. I make a point of explaining where quest-givers are rather than sharing, and I refuse to play as a nanybot or heal stupid. I'm probably a very mean meany head, but I actually enjoy seeing how many players manage to get lost and die in creative ways despite all that. It also amuses me no end to hear/read players complain that the group can't possibly succeed since we don't have a <insert class here> on the team yet.

[brian14]

Sometimes I send tells to requesting players with a "What role do you fill" question. It can spark a nice discussion. I almost never deny entrance based on a class configuration. Who knows, I might learn something interesting from the exchange.

Interesting. Nobody asked me that, but if someone did I would answer something like this (yes, I am AA):

Neutralize Poison, FoM, Energy Resistance for anyone who wants them
Put Improved Curse hat on every mob (rapid target switching)
Paralyzer bow + Imbue Terror Arrows for trash
In Phase 1 hose portals with GCB bow + Imbue Force Burst arrows
Several targeted TWF sets during multishot cooldown, including destruction, improved destruction, vorpal, WoP, icy burst holy burst of PG, etc. Mostly rapiers and short swords, as I have Weapon Finesse.
DPS one Shavarath Lieutenant with appropriate bow/arrows -- I've done it alone with Kassquick, Anur-Shub and Damasze. And if I do that, keyword is one.
In Phase 4 and 5 hose Harry with GS Lightning Bow (still Tier 2) + Deneith silver arrows
Take down gnolls as soon as they appear

[Zaviticus]

I'll accept anyone not on my "These guilds suck" list (currently composed of a certain group of cynical dancing enthusiasts, and a certain military assembly from the starter island). If they die in the first two runs, they are out.

Well played sir

[invrstprkin]

Not letting people into a party simply because of the build of their character is the kind of thing that discourages people from creating builds that could be (if done right) a great asset to any group, however i do agree with the fact that even if you have the most killer build ever created and dont know how to use it that it wont do much good but hey if i want to make a half favored soul/half monk (which pretty much everything ive read says its a bad idea) im going to do it, and i would like to think i wouldnt have to play the whole game alone if i did. . .

[shadow_419]

lol where do I start

1) high hp and dps is a tank in this game
2) warforged generally should NOT take more than healer's friend 1
3) people need to keep themselves healed up (at that level it's extremely easy to)
4) you avoid some of the best dps in the game then
5) /sigh at lvl 5 you won't be much of a healer lol
6) when you get heal, it's fairly easy to keep up any half-decent wf

Why would you not want to be as healer friendly as possible, unless you're an arcane that can self repair? I have a wf barbarian, and the 20 hp and slightly shorter rages i give up for extra healing is perfectly acceptable.

[Thrudh]

12<melee>/8<arcane>
or the other way around
the BAB is too low for anything past the desert, and arcanes have a DC of useless

Although those characters are hard to play, a 12/8 melee/arcane can be solid...

I had a 12/8 ranger/wizard once that had no problem hitting anything in the non-epic quests or raids (never played him in epic).

Of course his DC was useless, but his buffs worked just fine... Self-cast rage, displacement, haste, fire-shield, blur, and shield were quite useful

[Thrudh]

99% of the time, I take the first 5 that want to come along (there are a FEW quests where might require a rogue or a healer).

I take any class combo (but I've never seen a 6/6 or 7/7, etc. cleric/sorc before... I might actually pause for a second if that combo ever came up... but I'm sure I'd take them just to see what happens)

[Postumus]

lol where do I start


2) warforged generally should NOT take more than healer's friend 1
3) people need to keep themselves healed up (at that level it's extremely easy to)
6) when you get heal, it's fairly easy to keep up any half-decent wf

2- If a player doesn't want the full benefit of a mass clw/csw, then that's on him.

3- Many players DON'T keep themselves healed up at any level.

6- Even so, a poorly constructed WF can be a mana sponge.


The only class-race combo that makes me wince when I play my cleric or sorc is WF barbarian. Can someone build a good WF barbarian? Sure. But my personal experience is that this type of character- in PUGs - is potentially more difficult to deal with than others.

[protokon]

Why would you not want to be as healer friendly as possible, unless you're an arcane that can self repair? I have a wf barbarian, and the 20 hp and slightly shorter rages i give up for extra healing is perfectly acceptable.

That's only cause I've verbally abused you the few times I healed you while you were tanking Horoth

<3 Belsenn

[Asketes]

Why would you not want to be as healer friendly as possible, unless you're an arcane that can self repair? I have a wf barbarian, and the 20 hp and slightly shorter rages i give up for extra healing is perfectly acceptable.

4 AP for 5% isn't worth it.

I generally take I and II on permaforged, but that's b/c that 5% turns into 9% with some of the gear I wear (adds instead of multiplies)

think about it.. a cure mod probably hits a normal fleshy for maybe 30-40
so take 30

HF I - 30 x 0.65 = 19.5
HF II - 30 x 0.70 = 21

for a lvl 5 barb with 130-150 hp.. 2 hp isn't worth 4 ap at that level.

take an 850 hp barb with a heal for what 450?

HF I - 450 x .65 = 292.5
HF II - 450 x .70 = 315

not a great difference.

fortunately a well played barb doesn't sit at 65% or 70%

my wf sits at 90% with ship buffs, or 80% without at lvl 2 and at lvl 16 I hit 150/140% healing amp

will be 160%/150% when I'm done tr'ing.


Not all warforged will get that much, but with HF1 and leviks bracers they can get close to being normal at least.

0.65 x 1.2 = .78 = 78% healing amp.

even if they go to HFIII for TEN extra points

.75 x 1.2 = 0.9 x 450 = 405 heal
.65 x 1.2 = 0.78 x 450 = 351 heal

50 hp ain't too too big of a deal when ya sit at 850-1100 hp and you play your guy right.

thankfully, i sit at above 100 though
ANY melee WF that doesn't take healers friend I is a let down.. they can use my math against me and with gear it works fine, but 15% is really really cheap for 2AP

[Asketes]

2- If a player doesn't want the full benefit of a mass clw/csw, then that's on him.
it's impossible and completely improbably to ask someone to fork over that many AP for a benefit the healer at that level will not notice.
3- Many players DON'T keep themselves healed up at any level.
this is true
6- Even so, a poorly constructed WF can be a mana sponge.
a poorly constructed anything IS a mana sponge

The only class-race combo that makes me wince when I play my cleric or sorc is WF barbarian. Can someone build a good WF barbarian? Sure. But my personal experience is that this type of character- in PUGs - is potentially more difficult to deal with than others.

see red above for my comments

and see the post before this one for my answer to your wf barbarian info and other HF letdowns/rundowns

[shadow_419]

That's only cause I've verbally abused you the few times I healed you while you were tanking Horoth

<3 Belsenn

Gimp Fvs forgot where his heal button was.

<3 Arko

[Osma77]

Only BUILD (not player) that i have ever seen that really ****ed me enough to boot them was a 3cleric/2barbarian who didnt heal through devils assault, and later explained that he didnt heal because his spells wouldn't work. Turns out he had a 10 wisdom.

Although i won't boot them, and i have seen it done well, i get really, really scared every time i see a cleric with fighter levels. About 50% of them seem to think this is pen and paper and "I can heal you after the fight, let me go swing my battleaxe." When the LFM says "healer needed" that means we have enough dps, we need a HEALER, not someone who will run to the front line with us.

Other then that, i am easy going, and will let anyone in. However, if you are 9 years old, and are "uber l33t" you will NOT last long. I dont care that your level 4 ranger can kill any barbarian level 9 in the game with your mad skills, if you cant stay with the party, and if you run headlong into traps that i TOLD you about FOUR TIMES then i wont keep you around.

Noob of the day:
Leader: OK people, we are starting the first quest of waterworks. For those who havent done it, the first door is trapped.
[2 min later]
Leader: ok, lets buff up and kill these first mobs. dont forget, the door is trapped. leave it to the rogue.
[30 seconds later]
Rogue: TRAP TRAP TRAP, STOP!!!!
Cleric: WHOA! that door has an acid trap that killed me. When did that get there, i have done this quest 50 times and it was never there before!

[voodoogroves]

I take anyone generally speaking. I have a very small list of people on my DNG list.

In my experience, the build is a small part - the player is more. Plus on Ghallanda you can often see vet-like folks trying out odd things or doing LRs before a TR that makes for some interesting-looking builds. Are they still capable? Yes.

[shadow_419]

4 AP for 5% isn't worth it.

I generally take I and II on permaforged, but that's b/c that 5% turns into 9% with some of the gear I wear (adds instead of multiplies)

...snip...
even if they go to HFIII for TEN extra points

.75 x 1.2 = 0.9 x 450 = 405 heal
.65 x 1.2 = 0.78 x 450 = 351 heal

50 hp ain't too too big of a deal when ya sit at 850-1100 hp and you play your guy right.

thankfully, i sit at above 100 though
ANY melee WF that doesn't take healers friend I is a let down.. they can use my math against me and with gear it works fine, but 15% is really really cheap for 2AP

Getting as high as possible over 100 is the goal though, as that's where you'll see the biggest gains.

.75 x 1.1 x 1.2 = 0.99 x 450 = 445 heal

Nearly 100 hp more healed using your math is nothing to sneeze at, and that's still low for what is possible.

[Asketes]

Getting as high as possible over 100 is the goal though, as that's where you'll see the biggest gains.

.75 x 1.1 x 1.2 = 0.99 x 450 = 445 heal

Nearly 100 hp more healed using your math is nothing to sneeze at, and that's still low for what is possible.

um my math didn't account for a 1.1, so your point is moot. I specifically gave the bare minimums for a reason which are: 0.65 x 1.2 (hf1 and leviks) f

i wasn't arguing with the idea that healing amp is worthless. but you ask anyone to take 10AP out of their build for 50hp on a heal. they will laugh at you for the next century.

at end I sit at:

normal quest/raiding
0.70 (hf II & finger) x 1.05 (pally PL I) x 1.2 (DT armor) x 1.1 (dt armor) = just about 97% (add around 10% for ship buff for ~107%)

when heals are tight:
.8 (hfII & finger) x 1.05 (pally PL I) x 1.2 (DT armor) x 1.1 (dt armor) x 1.3 (trip pos GS or epic gloves of claw) = 144 (add 10% for ship buff for ~ 155%)

450 x 1.55 = 697 heal I love those

once I hit 16 i switch to cure pots. it's hilarious when people ask me why I'm not using repair pots and I have to tell them that cure pots heal me more