epic/endgame healer FvS vs. Clr

[der_kluge]

I still feel bad about not giving the FvS a chance to roll on the Guantlets of Eternity quite simply because I didn't even notice him in the group

My FvS has the Gauntlets - I got them from my previous life (cleric)! I may actually choose to wear them someday, but right now I'm happier with Marenya's Iron Fists, and Charged Gauntlets when I'm not vorpaling, or disrupting.

My FvS also took Empowered Healing. I'm definitely glad I did. I consider it vital.

I think to the OP's question - it seriously just boils down to the fact that there are a lot more clerics than there are FvS. Go into Who, select 20-20 as the level, select FvS only and count how many come back. Then do the same for clerics, and count how many come back.

[Chette]

Most melee focused FvS will grab Empower Heal. Taking Empower instead will also work for BB, but that's your only offensive spell. You get more mileage out of Empowered Heal.
As a FvS is more likely to be melee focused than a Cleric, they are also more feat starved. So while a Cleric might be able to fit both Empower and Empower Heal, a FvS certainly will not.
Evoker FvSs are the exception, as they'll be more likely to take Empower.

I disagree with you here. Most melee focused FvS will grab maximize and quicken as their only metamagics, there isn't enough room for more. As a melee favoured soul you are likely throwing mass cures instead of mass heal due to casting time (if you're a DPS you don't want to be spending 50% of your time waving your hands). Maximize may not be as efficient as empower healing, but most melee FvS are looking for total output, not efficiency.

Their capstone is amazing. It's one of the best in the game. That is all.

Can you elaborate on this? I find it garbage except for a few places where a competent player shouldn't need it (ToD kiting, Abbot ice). It doesn't do anything to increase the abilities of the cleric, either in casting, healing or meleeing.

Again, with the exception of an evoker, a Cleric is more likely to have Empower, and therefore makes a better nuker.
And again, with the exception of an evoker, a FvS will likely ignore instakill effects. Their Wisdom is lower, due to multiple attribute dependency, and due to only having 2 class enhancements to their casting stat.

Your comparing apples to oranges here when you say "with the exception of an evoker". Offensive casting FvS make up probably 50% of favoured souls in end game (by which time you've weeded out most of the high Cha healing only characters). You are comparing a battle FvS and a casting cleric. If you compare a casting FvS and a casting cleric, the FvS is more likely to have empower as they don't need empower healing. My casting FvS has a higher DC that my casting cleric because she was able to fit in an extra spell focus by not having to take empower healing.

If you want to compare FvS and Clerics you have to compare the same builds. Battle to Battle and Caster to Caster, or it doesn't make any sense.

It is my opinion that an FvS is more inclined to melee/buffing/healing. Leave DPS to the guys with the feats and the DCs.... unless you're an evoker.

As the owner of a casting FvS, melee FvS, casting cleric, and eventually another melee cleric, I say FvS and Cleric can both do it all. A FvS can dish out the DPS just as well, probably better than a Cleric. But they have to build for it. FvS are better specialists, they have to lose more to gain more. Clerics are better generalists. They can't specialize as much, but generally don't lose much when they do.

[bigolbear]

Ahh a cleric vs vs thread.

2 pages in - there is argument, there is discussion. there are pros and cons to both. there is balance.

My opinion:
clerics are generalist healers - capable of fighting, offensive casting buffing and of course healing.
fvs are specialist healers - fvs are better offensive casters OR better meles but not both and healing is comparable to a cleric.


The radiant aura and bursts are about equal to a fvs expended mana pool - a cleric gains some power at undead nuking, but a fvs gets to heal from a safer distance, thats all it realy boils down to. Ive had 3 clercis and 4 fvs so far at various lvls from 1 to 20.

The nature of clerics improved empowered healing can mean for some groups and raids - ones full of 600+ hp meles or warforge with minimal healing amp the cleric will be abeter healer. in other circumstances a heal or mass heal from a fvs will still fill up every ones red bars.

[Steveohio]

Alot of whats being tossed around here is hypothetical,
Such as a cleric generally takes these feats vs a FVS these...

You must compare best possible case scenarios and idenitical as possible builds to evalute this correctly.

Clerics are the better healers currently. This purely based on heal output. Both burst and sustained healing.
Their main advantages over a FVS are:

Healing Aura from RS2, with healing amp can produce a huge amount of healing over time. My clonk's aura hits for 78 per tick on self. Average toons get about 24 or so per tick.

Heal Bursts from RS1. At lower levels, its not even close to how much better a cleric healing is. At higher levels, you'll have 15 turns fairly easily. With maximize, empower, empower healing on, that is approximately 1500 more SP. This not only helps outweigh the FVS's main advantage over the cleric, max SP, but also gives you the flexibility to not have to spend SP on healing a majority of the time.

75% on empower healing feat. Another thing that puts the Radiant servant tops in healing. Allows not only your heals to hit for more maximum (yes this can be somewhat equalled by Ardor Belt Clickies, but is worth mentioning)

That said. A pure 20 FVS with capstone CLW will make the better self healer, and better single target healer.\


How you structure your build after getting all the healing stuff, which I feel is vital to a divine class, is up to you. Cases for different playstyles and build goals can be made by the user, but I feel every healer out there should roll with Empower, Empower Healing, Maximize, Quicken, As many Superior Ardor 8 clickies as you can get, 40% healing enhancements.

I tend to believe you should also use Reaver Gloves and have at least 6% crit heal enhancments also. Not really needed, depending on over heal, but mass cures/bursts/aura benefit greatly from it, and are IMO a better way of healing than the mass heal spell, SP effeciency aside.

[moops]

Both my FVS and Cleric are Casters.

I play my Cleric more in Epics because she is simply more fun, she can dish out a ton of DPS with her spells--my FVS can't carry as many of these as the Cleric can. My Cleric doesn't even have RS. She also has more CC spells then my FVS does. . .which is nice in case your Caster DCs, or a nice supplement to help the caster out.

But, I also play with mostly people I know who are experienced players, most of my SP is never used for healing except for Epic Velah, and Perhaps Epic Queen depending on how its run. My Cleric runs with 1961-2011 SP+ Bauble and some goodies, and if she were just straight healing she would still never use all that SP in the groups Im in.

Now for soloing some Quests I prefer my FVS, but it is not an SP thing, both my Cleric and FVS can regen mana fast. . .But wings do make soloing some quests a bit faster.

[Lemanchot]

Clerics aren't healer... they're positive/divine energy caster. Sadly my blade barriers do more DPS than most people I can meet in this game and god bless mana return back.

So yeah there's more clerics since FVS are P2P and this prolly the main reason. Do I believe Clerics are better mana pinchy. Yes they are. But FVS are really neat too. Able to heal and doing decent DPS is a huge plus. Because even if I play a cleric I play with this philosophy. The best defense is the offense. Some people like to ccut a steak with a spoon but a well sharpened knife is just better.

[elricken]

I really miss the extra spell slots clerics get to be sure... but man wings and dr are fun.

They are both extremely viable in end game epics and amrath. I ran (Gimped tr now ) a casting fvs 40+wis and 500 +hp was absolute god in some areas while extremely lackluster in epics where I couldn't effectively CC.

I also run a melee based cleric, very fun to see those big numbers on a healing type. But very sp limited, (I pretty much just accept that I will be chugging in order to get pug raids done).

It doesn't matter what approach you take to running a healer, as long as you can do something other than heal imo. Try both out and see which you enjoy more. (I really love the power of a well geared/built divine btw - its just so much fun once you get out of the healbot mindset).