Rogue: Epic cutthroat with Silver good vs Lit2/Min2 Khopesh..

[AtomicMew]

If you are testing anyway and have access to them, can you see if a base lvl 20 sword (3%) and an upgraded one (6%). stack? I expect not.

I'm also interested to hear this answer

[LeLoric]

thx for the numbrers. so, a weapon with doublestrike in offhand aplies it's ds chance to the main hand and not just to itself?

It only applies to the mainhand. Double strike from anywhere applies a percent chance for whatever weapon is in your mainhand to attack twice in one swing.

It's a lot harder to test how doublestrike stacks but it appears that from an item ds will stack with any other non-item source. This includes fighter capstone, zeal, air stance, and opportunist. It appears weapons will not stack with each other. Keep in mind a large sample size is required to determine this and it's not something I wanna go through the testing on.

Keep in mind it will be a lot harder for the other classes to make this be a better weapon than another offhand lightning II weapon.

[maddmatt70]

It only applies to the mainhand. Double strike from anywhere applies a percent chance for whatever weapon is in your mainhand to attack twice in one swing.

It's a lot harder to test how doublestrike stacks but it appears that from an item ds will stack with any other non-item source. This includes fighter capstone, zeal, air stance, and opportunist. It appears weapons will not stack with each other. Keep in mind a large sample size is required to determine this and it's not something I wanna go through the testing on.

Keep in mind it will be a lot harder for the other classes to make this be a better weapon than another offhand lightning II weapon.

Thank you for the math. It looks like the conclusion you are making is where a rogue is not dual wielding radiance weapons (for auto sneak damage), dual wielding picks (heavy or light for auto crit), or min 2s for high dr bosses, a rogue should use the smallblade in the off hand with a ls2 primary. Since these epic items are so easy to make you might as well make one, but you are likely to use it a small % of the time really only on bosses that do not have a high dr or trash that are not held and there is no other form of auto crit and can not be blinded such as scorps in claw of vulkoor without solid stunner characters in group.

[sephiroth1084]

Thank you for the math. It looks like the conclusion you are making is where a rogue is not dual wielding radiance weapons (for auto sneak damage), dual wielding picks (heavy or light for auto crit), or min 2s for high dr bosses, a rogue should use the smallblade in the off hand with a ls2 primary. Since these epic items are so easy to make you might as well make one, but you are likely to use it a small % of the time really only on bosses that do not have a high dr or trash that are not held and there is no other form of auto crit and can not be blinded such as scorps in claw of vulkoor without solid stunner characters in group.

Do you really feel that dual-wielding Radiance IIs is necessary? I honestly can't say I'd bother making a second one for my rogue, though i do have a RadII HP cloak. I'd change that assessment to non-auto-crit, non-high-DR boss situations.

[voodoogroves]

It does?? Wow, that changes things. I'll have to check mine, as I didn't notice after I made it.

Do you know if it's keen or if that's the base crit range and IC:Pierce improves it to 15-20 like a rapier?

I believe the 2nd; I'll check it on my rogue here later tonight.

[LeLoric]

Do you really feel that dual-wielding Radiance IIs is necessary? I honestly can't say I'd bother making a second one for my rogue, though i do have a RadII HP cloak. I'd change that assessment to non-auto-crit, non-high-DR boss situations.

I don't dual wield on my rog. Up until lately I went Rad II/Lit II rapiers. The situation of that versus a rad II/smallblade however is not as cut and dry, the rad II/lit II starts out a fair bit higher before variables are considered so only a really well geared and buffed rog would get better results from the smallblade rad II combo.

[LeLoric]

Thank you for the math. It looks like the conclusion you are making is where a rogue is not dual wielding radiance weapons (for auto sneak damage), dual wielding picks (heavy or light for auto crit), or min 2s for high dr bosses, a rogue should use the smallblade in the off hand with a ls2 primary. Since these epic items are so easy to make you might as well make one, but you are likely to use it a small % of the time really only on bosses that do not have a high dr or trash that are not held and there is no other form of auto crit and can not be blinded such as scorps in claw of vulkoor without solid stunner characters in group.

Theres quite a few instances I would use the smallblade combo. Most epic boss fights this would be my main setup. This includes djinn and velah in von 6, Hezrou and named sahaugin in deeps, all bosses in Epic chrono, add to this all normal level raid devil bosses and this set will be my second most used set other than dual earthgrab picks and min II's being third on that list. Rad II rapier is really not used much at all anymore unless im soloing trivial content anyways. Others play style may cause variance in this but for me it's just not a setup I use much.

[Draccus]

Do you really feel that dual-wielding Radiance IIs is necessary? I honestly can't say I'd bother making a second one for my rogue, though i do have a RadII HP cloak. I'd change that assessment to non-auto-crit, non-high-DR boss situations.

When I'm solo, I won't use anything other than dual RadIIs. Even with a 15-20 crit range, it's amazing how much faster a mob gets blinded with dual RadIIs versus one.

This became obvious to me after making my smallblade. I ran around the Smuggler's Cove solo with a RadII and a smallblade and was frustrated with how long it would take to blind mobs. Since our DPS more than doubles once the mob is blind, a few seconds longer to blind something is a big deal.

A second RadII is certainly not a top priority but it makes a bid difference when soloing.

[maddmatt70]

Theres quite a few instances I would use the smallblade combo. Most epic boss fights this would be my main setup. This includes djinn and velah in von 6, Hezrou and named sahaugin in deeps, all bosses in Epic chrono, add to this all normal level raid devil bosses and this set will be my second most used set other than dual earthgrab picks and min II's being third on that list. Rad II rapier is really not used much at all anymore unless im soloing trivial content anyways. Others play style may cause variance in this but for me it's just not a setup I use much.

Ok this all by the numbers. I have heard that doublestrike on weapons has some bugs so what have you, but you have convinced me to make one of these for my dex ac rogue even it is more for the future because doublestrike on weapons is bugged. Oh and I do use radiance rapiers if the caster sucks, but what I find I use alot at end game on my dex ac with some strength character is light picks. If I did not think they were changing epic quite a bit relatively soon I would make ls2 light picks on him (3.5 less damage then heavy picks) because the end game is all about the autocrits if you run with hard core casters. Light picks (or heavy picks) is used the majority of the time. I think ls2 picks are better then earthgrab actually. I would say on the bosses its either min2s or this is ls2 and smallsword combo so pretty trivial.

[LordPiglet]

my guildy pulled one the other day from devil invasion, he was super excited and linking his now DR beater eSOS everywhere...

AFAIK Devils assault is the only place to get a silver + good red. And they should only last 100 game hours

*edit: da epic and elite afaik

[destiny4405]

When I'm solo, I won't use anything other than dual RadIIs. Even with a 15-20 crit range, it's amazing how much faster a mob gets blinded with dual RadIIs versus one.

This became obvious to me after making my smallblade. I ran around the Smuggler's Cove solo with a RadII and a smallblade and was frustrated with how long it would take to blind mobs. Since our DPS more than doubles once the mob is blind, a few seconds longer to blind something is a big deal.

A second RadII is certainly not a top priority but it makes a bid difference when soloing.

same here. have two radII khopeshes and i love them. even epic mob's arent a prob 1 on 1

[Aerendil]

When I'm solo, I won't use anything other than dual RadIIs. Even with a 15-20 crit range, it's amazing how much faster a mob gets blinded with dual RadIIs versus one.

This became obvious to me after making my smallblade. I ran around the Smuggler's Cove solo with a RadII and a smallblade and was frustrated with how long it would take to blind mobs. Since our DPS more than doubles once the mob is blind, a few seconds longer to blind something is a big deal.

A second RadII is certainly not a top priority but it makes a bid difference when soloing.

That's the key right here, though. *Solo*.
If in a group, especially where aggro is not a concern (either because you have a slew of healers, or an intimitank, or whatever), then the rad2 loses it's attractiveness considerably. It still has a number of uses, and I would certainly not discount them by any means. Having a blinded mob, even if it's not aggro on you, means the tank is getting a free displacement of sorts, which is always a good thing.
But, for the sake of argument, if you're not solo and you're wanting to go pure dps... then I can see dual smallblades being very viable. You're most likely getting sneak damage in instantly anyways, as the mob will be aggro on someone else, and having 14% ds *per hand* (3% opportunist + 6% smallblade + 5% bard recklessness) means you're going to be getting a lot of double sneak damages, which is stellar.
*edit* -and with the base damage better than greensteel, and a crit threat range equal to rapiers, dps should be pretty stellar. Even if it's only a x2 multiplier

For epics and auto-crit situations, of course, I'd still strongly recommend dual picks; and for solo, radiance + offhander (smallblade, pick, whatever) or dual rads is key. But for the average group? Tough call... dual smallblades (achievable with 2-3 days grinding) vs. dual lit2s (weeks/months of grinding).

[Draccus]

That's the key right here, though. *Solo*.
If in a group, especially where aggro is not a concern (either because you have a slew of healers, or an intimitank, or whatever), then the rad2 loses it's attractiveness considerably. It still has a number of uses, and I would certainly discount them by any means.

The bold part is where I think a lot of rogues, and players in general, make a mistake. Players read "solo" and think that means stepping into a quest without a party. "Oh, I never do that, so there's no need for me to worry about solo gear."

But "solo," to me, means fighting a mob 1v1, even if you're in a full group. You step into P2 of the Shroud and find yourself eye-to-eye with three bezikira. You're fighting Suulo in P3 of TOD and the leader asks you to peel off and kill a few Orthons. You split up in epic ADQ. You're on one side of the platform while the party is on the other in Epic Last Stand. There are hundreds of scenarios where a rogue can find himself "solo" while in a full group. That's where I love dual RadIIs.

But when I'm flanking mobs in full groups? LitII + Smallblade.
Autocrits? Dual picks
Elite DR? Dual MinIIs.
1v1? Dual RadIIs!

[Aerendil]

Agreed Draccus. It partially depends on your AC and whether you feel safe; your tank's skill in holding aggro; and how good a player you are in ensuring you tend not to get aggro despite those two factors (and maybe how good your Diplo skill is ).

There are times when I'd like a mob blinded regardless, because you never quite know when they're going to turn on you.
i.e. I don't care if those 3 orthons are eyeing up the Barb... they may suddenly decide my sneak attacking damage is enough, and turn on me.

And then there are other times when I feel 100% safe and secure, and can put away the rad2 weapon and go to town with whatever I like.

The good Rogue knows when to recognize each of those scenerios, in much the same way as a good Ranger knows when to use the bow vs. his/her blades.

[jurzey]

I may have to build a smallblade tonight just in case they are awesome.

[Draccus]

I may have to build a smallblade tonight just in case they are awesome.

If you have no dragonshards banked and no trinkets built, you're only talking 4 cycles of the event to build one. Less if you already have some dragonshards. No reason not to make one!

[karl_k0ch]

I may have to build a smallblade tonight just in case they are awesome.

They dont suck too much even when unupgraded.

[Razcar]

Corrosive Salt seems very nice though. Same proc chance as Lightening Strike (2%) but does 4 tics of damage over 8 seconds instead of one big hit. And untyped damage.