Inspire Recklessness

[Gorbadoc]

I blacklist anyone who sings this song in anything other than a complete cakewalk that we're trying to finish faster...

Unfortunately, there's no way for the *healer* to turn this song off on melees, and the melees themselves (and possibly the healers) often don't know enough about math to understand that they're raising the risk level of a "unlucky" death if they don't shed the song through a stance.

So you blacklist the bard for the cleric and/or fighter's poor playing? It's ironic that you speak of poor strategy in your next post.

[Westerner]

I blacklist anyone who sings this song in anything other than a complete cakewalk that we're trying to finish faster. (Part I of shroud qualifies as a cakewalk, yes.) Good thing I only PUG 10% of the time!

I think the problem is that many puggers and players who haven't been around a long time even at end game may not be wearing heavy fort.

This.

I think not having an appropriate fort item (or forgetting to put yours on) is a much bigger risk factor than IR. If someone wants to blacklist a bard for IR, then maybe they should be interrogating everyone as to their fort status first.

[cforce]

So you blacklist the bard for the cleric and/or fighter's poor playing? It's ironic that you speak of poor strategy in your next post.

No, I blacklist them for making things more difficult for players who might already be marginal, and pushing them over the edge without the poor players ever knowing "what went wrong this run". I expect the bard to know that IR sometimes makes the situation worse. I don't expect the cleric or fighter to know that. If the bard is throwing the song out without knowing whether it will help or hurt -- well, that's reckless.

Hm -- perhaps I've discovered the secret to the song's name .

[cforce]

This.

I think not having an appropriate fort item (or forgetting to put yours on) is a much bigger risk factor than IR. If someone wants to blacklist a bard for IR, then maybe they should be interrogating everyone as to their fort status first.

A fair point -- a lot of this is why I'm running with PUGs less and less, in fact. That being said, there's a difference between "inexperienced omission" (someone who doesn't yet know how important a heavy fort item is) and "knowledgeable sabotage".

Sabotage, blacklist -- I'm using some reaction-inducing words here to make a point, but there's a reason people say "Heavy Fort is a must-have" and not "eh, make sure you've got at least a Medium Fort item, Heavy Fort is nice-to-have if you can fit it".

Anyway, I'll bow out now -- I've said my peace. Don't IR me, bro.

[voodoogroves]

A fair point -- a lot of this is why I'm running with PUGs less and less, in fact. That being said, there's a difference between "inexperienced omission" (someone who doesn't yet know how important a heavy fort item is) and "knowledgeable sabotage".

Sabotage, blacklist -- I'm using some reaction-inducing words here to make a point, but there's a reason people say "Heavy Fort is a must-have" and not "eh, make sure you've got at least a Medium Fort item, Heavy Fort is nice-to-have if you can fit it".

Anyway, I'll bow out now -- I've said my peace. Don't IR me, bro.

No no ... good conversation.


One thing though, we may be talking about different scales and points in time.



At 20, my experience is that it is a non-issue. Folks have HP items, xFL, etc. and are near 100% or more fort anyway. They can take a number of hits. At this point people even survive a few crits if they forget to put on their fort - they've got the HP to manage it.

At 12-15, this is where you're already staring at problems with fortification and lower HP. First lifers aren't sitting on an HP item, not everyone has heavy fort, etc.



In that second scenario, IR is much more dangerous. In the first, not so much.

[Westerner]

Sabotage, blacklist -- I'm using some reaction-inducing words here to make a point, but there's a reason people say "Heavy Fort is a must-have" and not "eh, make sure you've got at least a Medium Fort item, Heavy Fort is nice-to-have if you can fit it".

Anyway, I'll bow out now -- I've said my peace. Don't IR me, bro.

No worries, bro. If it's your raid, I'll conform to your tactics. If you say no IR, I won't sing it. But if nothing is said - I would hope that you were speaking rhetorically about blacklisting bards for IR, since it's quite defensible in most content.

Not necessarily a bad thing for Bards to have an Inspire Drama song . At least it raises the profile of our tunes. And we Bards love publicity.

[DrNuegebauer]

Just to put in my 2cp.

I think bards should play it 100% of the time that there is one warforged melee in the party.

Everyone else can just turn it off if they can't handle a crit [it's been said, press the defensive fighting thing on and off again, every single toon gets it by default].

But if there's a WF, there doesn't appear to be any good reason not to sing! Why wouldn't you want to increase the overall party DPS?

[Aashrym]

No, I blacklist them for making things more difficult for players who might already be marginal, and pushing them over the edge without the poor players ever knowing "what went wrong this run". I expect the bard to know that IR sometimes makes the situation worse. I don't expect the cleric or fighter to know that. If the bard is throwing the song out without knowing whether it will help or hurt -- well, that's reckless.

Hm -- perhaps I've discovered the secret to the song's name .

Wouldn't it make more sense to explain the risk to those marginal players instead of blacklisting the bard. Inspire recklessness is handy most of the time. Blacklisting the bard hasn't done anything to help make those other players less marginal and increase their successes moving forward.

Even explaining your point of view to the bard so he might warn other players might be more productive than blacklisting him, and if it's your run then setting the expectation at the beginning for the run makes sense. Failure to follow instructions is a better reason to blacklist than simply using a song that does increase party damage.

Really, those marginal players are doing more to themselves by not having heavy fortification than recklessness does. Based on the that premise it would make more sense to blacklist everyone who doesn't have heavy fort. Just sayin'

That was a quick 2cp anyway.

[Crinos]

There seems to be a lot of confusion and misinformation about IR and its consequences out there.

Had a cleric in a shroud run recently insist I not sing IR as he said that in his last run the bard had used it and a pally in the party had died by being one shotted by a 600 point melee crit from harry.

Now clearly this is fantasy, but this sort of thing seems to be readily accepted as fact.
What makes it particularly frustrating (as in this case) is when I get that sort of BS from folks who then go on to admit that they don't have a bard and probably only run in a group with IR on a small percentage of the time. Whereas I run with it on pretty much contstantly on my 520HP melee bard and have never died from a IR related crit.

I feel IR is often an easy excuse for expired melee who either don't have enough HP or a heavy fort item. Blame the bard rather than facing their own shortcommings.

That being the case I always try to inform people how to turn it off if I believe there's any risk, and try to point out that, for example, Harry doesn't crit that hard. But I do sing it.
It's painful going over the same ground all the time, but hopefully people come out of it better informed and will be less likely to believe BS about IR in the future.

[TheDearLeader]

Had a cleric in a shroud run recently insist I not sing IR as he said that in his last run the bard had used it and a pally in the party had died by being one shotted by a 600 point melee crit from harry.

This is hilarious. Someone really said that?

Since IR came out, I've gone in there before on my beefy toons and waded in, and taken off Heavy Fort just to see what the damage was like. On Normal, the hardest he ever hit me was for a clean 100 points even.

For whoever originally made this claim to you, feel free to direct them here:

Natural attacks, such as Fist/Claw and Bite attacks, typically have a Crit Multiplier of x2. If a mob hits you for 50 on a Normal attack, then he'll hit you for 100 on a Crit.

That said, it ****es me off when I'm in an Elite Sins of Attrition/VoD, and the one pug we decide to bring is a Bard, and decides to sing this WHILE we're wading knee-deep in Barbazu glaives. Even my Fleshie caster gets over 500 HP, but dang.. in the middle of combat, its just annoying to Toggle/Untoggle.

I'll also point out that some Warchanters are not explaining the song, and assuming that everyone "just knows".
I've had people ask my Bard for a Fire Resist before. Most don't know what the real names for "The AC Song" or "The Skill Song" are. People. Don't. Know. Bards. You seem to agree with that.

However, we have a bunch of new Bards on the block, since we did get Tier II PrEs. And they're singing without warning, without concern for the timing of the song, etc.

It might not necessarily be the Bard's "fault" when things go pear-shaped. But considering this is one of the very, *very* few buffs that a player can cast on another player that also debuffs in this game, it should not be taken lightly.

[Soth13]

I don't mind IR, I would just like to see a couple things happen
1. I would like it if i was told that it is going to be cast, that way if I absolutely don't want it i can shut it off this being more of a courtesy thing as it is also a debuff.
2. I would like to see it sung before spells like rage are cast (that was if i do want to get rid of it I don't drop my rage)

those two things are just my two cp about the song

[Crinos]

This is hilarious. Someone really said that?

It was funny to start with. It only became annoying when he insisted I didn't know what I was talking about and that it must be true because he had seen it with his own eyes. There's just no telling some people.

Since IR came out, I've gone in there before on my beefy toons and waded in, and taken off Heavy Fort just to see what the damage was like. On Normal, the hardest he ever hit me was for a clean 100 points even.

For whoever originally made this claim to you, feel free to direct them here:

Natural attacks, such as Fist/Claw and Bite attacks, typically have a Crit Multiplier of x2. If a mob hits you for 50 on a Normal attack, then he'll hit you for 100 on a Crit.

Agreed, I haven't tried taking off my fort gear, but the odd crit I have noticed with IR running seemed to be in the 90 point range.

That said, it ****es me off when I'm in an Elite Sins of Attrition/VoD, and the one pug we decide to bring is a Bard, and decides to sing this WHILE we're wading knee-deep in Barbazu glaives. Even my Fleshie caster gets over 500 HP, but dang.. in the middle of combat, its just annoying to Toggle/Untoggle.

I can understand that. Good point to note. I doubt I've ever done that, but it's something to be aware of.

I'll also point out that some Warchanters are not explaining the song, and assuming that everyone "just knows".
I've had people ask my Bard for a Fire Resist before. Most don't know what the real names for "The AC Song" or "The Skill Song" are. People. Don't. Know. Bards. You seem to agree with that.

Sure, I get pestered for elemental resists on my bard all the time. As you say people don't know bards.

However, we have a bunch of new Bards on the block, since we did get Tier II PrEs. And they're singing without warning, without concern for the timing of the song, etc.

It might not necessarily be the Bard's "fault" when things go pear-shaped. But considering this is one of the very, *very* few buffs that a player can cast on another player that also debuffs in this game, it should not be taken lightly.

Totally agree.
I'm not a model bard myself. It gets wearing going through the same routine every time. I'd be the first to admit that if we are running something simple like a casual Prey on a capped group I very occasionally get lazy and don't bother. I'll try to be more consistent. I should probably do a hotkey or something with the 'talk' and save myself some effort.

[lopkon]

I would play the Recklessness Regulary, for the following reasons:

1.) Everyone can cancel this (de?)buff (if he happens to not like it) with defensive stance, so it won't hurt anyone

2.) -10% Fortification doesnt kill you. You still have 90% Fortification, which means when a monster has a crit rate of 50%, his chance to crit you is 5%. So for 5% you get hit by, let's say 240. Either your toon isnt solid anyway or you survive this, without a problem.

3.) Warforged profit from it, without any negative aspects

4.) Pirate Event has an exceptional 10% Fortification item

5.) I'm not entirely sure, but spell crits shouldnt be blocked by Fortification, most big bosses do rather spell than melee damage, or they do badges, so the heavy damage isnt even influenced by Heavy Fortification.

6.) The Faster the mob dies, the less he crits.

The only raid where I wouldnt play Recklessness for just any group would be Epic DQ, or I would at least remind of the fact that chars with less than 450 HP should cancel it with defensive stance