Ninja Spy III

[DethTrip]

Below is a list of suggestions for ninja spy III compiled from my own ideas and others replies. Any one or combination of these would be great.

1. While in Greater Shadow Fade (or shadow fade) your critical unarmed attacks drain 1-3 levels from your target
2. +1 enhanced ki generation
3. An instant death assassin type strike that is better than quivering palm
4. Rolling a natural 20 does void IV effect minus the added damage and only on a sneak attack
5. Decrease the cooldown of touch of death
6. Teleport to enemies like orthons and devils do
7. Greater Shadow Fade (50% incorporeality that lasts 2 minutes)
8. Add another 3d6 or 4d6 sneak attack damage
9. Add wisdom modifier to damage
10. Lengthen shadow fade duration (if not creating greater shadow fade)
11. Replace short swords on spy I and II with shuriken abilities
12. Shuriken Manyshot skill that lasts for 10 or 20 seconds
13. Create an instant death shuriken attack for spy II
14. Add to the threat and/or multiplier of a critical hit
15. Add a ddoor ki skill
16. Add a mist creating ki skill
17. Hide-in-plain-sight
18. True seeing
19. Ghost touch

And please fix the TOD ring sets! Make the ninja spy set do something cool and relevant.

I have been adding ideas from replies to the list. I hope these suggestions give the devs enough ideas to get this pre done soon! Please feel free to leave helpful, non abusive thoughts, ideas, and/or suggestions for the Ninja Spy PRE. Thanks.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I have a few suggestions for ninja spy III. Any one or combination of these would be great.

1. Add another 4d6 sneak attack damage.
2. Decrease the cooldown of touch of death.
3. Add wisdom modifier to damage.
4. +1 enhanced ki generation.
5. An instant death assassin type strike that is better than quivering palm.
6. Greater Shadow Fade (50% incorporeality that lasts 2 minutes).

And please fix the TOD ring sets! Make the ninja spy set do something cool and relevant.

I will try to think up some others. If you have some non-abusive on topic suggestions, please feel free to reply. Thanks.

I imagine we'll see tier 3 following on from tier 2, such as
1. +3d6 sneak attack (for a total of +6d6)
2. Something to do with shortswords (extra offhand proc chance like tempest maybe?)
3. Something to do with sneaking (extra sneaking movement speed, even more Ki regen while sneaking)
4. Some dark move?

[DethTrip]

I just hope they make it something useful. Shintao gets silver DR bypass and ranged stuns. That's pretty strong.

The reason I came up with 4d6 sneak attack is looking at it as doubling each time. Spy I, 1d6. Spy II doubles to 2d6, Spy III doubles to 4d6. 7d6 isn't too strong imo compared to a capped rogue getting double that at 14d6 for only 2 APs for the capstone.

When you think of a ninja spy, you think of a very sneaky wraith like assassin. He swoops in, unheard or seen, and takes out his enemy quickly with a precision attack and without a sound. Greater Shadow Fade giving the full 50% incorporeality and an instant death type attack follows that flavor imo. Maybe make it so you have to be in Greater Shadow Fade, then you can do the special attack that is an instant kill. It needs to have a higher DC then quivering palm though. I could also see Greater Shadow Fade giving a +15 exceptional bonus to hide and move silently. I want something fairly powerful and fun. Something that goes along with what you would think a ninja spy would do. I hope they create spy III sometime soon as my dark path ninja spy II monk is my favorite to play and I would love to see him be a bit more powerful and more enjoyable to play.

[stille_nacht]

i think they should do something ninja-y in addition to the standard +3d6 SA, etc.

i would like to see-
All sneak attacks add:
Assassin's Blows- your weapons gain +1 to critical range
Deadly Blows- your weapons gain +1 to crit multiplier.

or something of the sort.

[Requiro]

More imagination gentlemen

You are the Ninjas. You supposed to be master of shuriken too

In my opinion 2 first tiers need some little improvements, to be competitive with Shintao.

Ninja Spy I :

• Weapon Focus: Shuriken
• additional +2 to-hit and dmg to Shuriken

Ninja Spy II:

• Improved Critical: Shuriken
• additional +2 to-hit and dmg to Shuriken
• Additional ability: uses 5 KI, Solid Fog effect (Don’t affect party members)

And now my suggestion for last Tier on level 18:

Ninja Spy III:

• +2 Balance, Hide, Move silently
• Improve Critical Threat range for Ninjas Weapons: +2 (for Shortsword and Shuriken)
• additional +2 to-hit and dmg to Shuriken
• additional Sneak attack: 3d6
• (passive) Ninja strike: if your sneak attack was Vorpal attack, you have opportunity to made massive damage to the target: 20d6 + 20 sneak damage and half with Fortitude save (DC 10 + (Monk Level/2) + Wisdom Modifier)
• 20% faster sneaking
• Special ability, Quaver Strike: KI:25, Colddown: 60 sec. Your attack is made with +1 to-hit modifier and ignore enemy fortification.

That will be cool, isn’t it ?

[Tunst]

and while we're at it.
why the hell can i walk on water.
*** IS THAT?!!!
lets get rid of such sillyness and get something useful.

and whats with the shortswords in general.
such uselessness.
2d12vs1d6?

adding wisdom to damage would be kinda nice honestly.
it would allow to build a dark monk using only con, dex, and wis.
getting weapon finesse also, and hitting up the wind stance.
but it would lose Void Strike IV

and yeah, the ToD set is ********.

[Chai]

Wait wait...

Dark monks are to monks as sorcs are to arcane. It was just accepted fact that dark monk was better than light for the longest time and no one said a word, but hoooo boy did the bawling ever start once light monks got their due. ZOMG a ranged stun!!! We need more DPS to account for that!!!!

4d6 more SA isnt that big a deal eh? Id like to see the demographic of how many rogues LR'd or TR'd to pure the minute the new capstone was added that gave 4d6 SA damage -vs- how many of them had at least a splash in monk, fighter, or both previously.

What kind of numbers will a half elf rogue dilly dark monk hit for SA - second only to pure rogues...just silly.

[Tunst]

Chai, its just that when you compare the things we get compared to the thing light monks get, they get a TON more.
DR bypass. three time. whoa.
tomb of jade. nice.
kokan do. cool deal.
theres a few other attacks they get that im unaware of, but i do know there are more.
nice.

we get shortswords. useless.
we get shadow fade. not bad.
we get to walk on water. now pardon me, but how in khyber is that relevant?
we get sneak attack. ninja, sneak attack, okay.



and its not tht we have to compensate for whatever, its that they got their 3rd prestige, while we were just left here.
they should've implemented both monk thirds at once

as well as i believe they shouldve implemented both sorc and wiz prestiges at the same time.
because now people believe wizards are soooo much better
in reality, sorcs can get 3 under the wiz DC's
and a 2 sec cooldown, not 5.

/rant

[Requiro]

But Tunst - what about my proposal?

Is that fillfull you demand?

[Robi3.0]

Extra sneak dice is almost assured. More then likely it will be a total of 6d6.

Helf rogue dill would then have a total of 9d6 which is roughly half a pure rogue assassin. I am okay with that and I am sure other rogues are as well. Also it would be silly to balance an entire classes PrE around one race, especially since everyone knows Helfs suck anyways.

Giving tier 3 ninja spies the ability to use short swords at the same attack speed as fists would be cool, but not broken as fists would still be better.

A dark move or perma ability that would allow ninja spies to ignore miss chances due to incorporeality would fit well with the PnP Ninja base class.


---------------Better Idea-------------------------
huge bonuses to Attack AC and damage when soloing, because everyone knows one ninja is **** near unstoppable, but once he gets with his friends he is about as challenging to fight a running a chainsaw through wet toilet paper.

[Tunst]

I think things like shurikens and shortswords should be with the Henshin Mystic.
I know not much of it, but judging by the set of +1d6 fire damage, he seems to be the monk of dps.
if it is going to be like that, i believe he should be one who gets more weapons and stuff.

Quaver strike, i believe would be nice if it was more of an ability.
Quaver Strike: Ki cost 25: Cooldown: 1 minute. For the next 15 seconds, all strike made will be made with +1 to hit and ignore enemy fortification.

yeahhhhh
Or even more stuns and stuff.
Maybe give us a variant of Jade, like an earth grab.

and our finishers while we're at it.
they friggin suck.
>.>

and as stated, AC would be really nice.
Ignoring miss chances... tht may be OP unless it does have a cooldown.



Really tho, i just wanna get something useful instead of walking on water. >

[Robi3.0]

I should clarify my ignore miss chances suggestion would basically be the ghost touch ability that comes on weapons. At level 18 that would hardly be OP even if it was a always on ability.

[Gulnar13]

Water walking it's wonderful in abbot.
Just saying.

[stille_nacht]

Water walking it's wonderful in abbot.
Just saying.

yeah but i bet they'll "fix" that soon :/, seeing as its supposed to be on touch.... i hope they dont...

[Robi3.0]

Water walking it's wonderful in abbot.
Just saying.

and in the harbor which is the only other place it seems to work.

[Chai]

Chai, its just that when you compare the things we get compared to the thing light monks get, they get a TON more.
DR bypass. three time. whoa.
tomb of jade. nice.
kokan do. cool deal.
theres a few other attacks they get that im unaware of, but i do know there are more.
nice.

we get shortswords. useless.
we get shadow fade. not bad.
we get to walk on water. now pardon me, but how in khyber is that relevant?
we get sneak attack. ninja, sneak attack, okay.



and its not tht we have to compensate for whatever, its that they got their 3rd prestige, while we were just left here.
they should've implemented both monk thirds at once

as well as i believe they shouldve implemented both sorc and wiz prestiges at the same time.
because now people believe wizards are soooo much better
in reality, sorcs can get 3 under the wiz DC's
and a 2 sec cooldown, not 5.

/rant

Dark monk also gets SA damage, and touch of death, but those are only OK, where all the light path stuff is nice and cool deal?

Previous to light monk revamp it was just accepted fact that dark was superior, but now that light got thrown a bone I see alot of moaning coming out of the dark monk corner. This parallels the fact that it was just accepted that sorcs were just considered superior, and not a peep out of wizards, then wizards got their PRE love and the sorcs begin complaining up a storm.

We know when true balance is achieved when the build enthusiasts start complaining about the class. If they arent, we clearly know that one PRE outshines the others, and they just all jump on it and be quiet, heh.

[Zharfie]

yeah but i bet they'll "fix" that soon :/, seeing as its supposed to be on touch.... i hope they dont...

I hope they do



still waiting for henshin mystic and hoping it doesn't suck, or I'll be PrEless forever

[jkm]

if they add 3d6 to the ninja 3 there are a lot of assassins that are going to hit the roof in fury. that is equivalent to taking 11 rogue levels for god's sake. if they do anything other than move tier 2 down to 1d6 and put the other 1d6 at tier 3, they'll have to go back and revamp the rogue PrE's AGAIN.

#5 is the most likely, which would make it just as useless as assassin 3.

[shortdevils]

i want them to give us a useful debuff along with the extra sneak attack.

i had energy drain in mind.

[sephiroth1084]

I don't think Ninja III needs anything ridiculous as light and dark monks are pretty close to being balanced right now.

I expect to see 3d6 SA (1d6 to 2d6 can be seen as either adding an additional d6 per tier or doubling the bonus of the previous tier--both modes of progression are possible, which is why a series doesn't really start until you have 3 values to work with), faster sneaking, some further benefit with shortswords (no idea what they'd do here...maybe make shortswords usable with Stunning Fist and ToD?) and...I don't know...

Another activated ability would be nice. Not sure what though. An Assassinate-like attack would be kind of redundant with Quivering Palm and Touch of Death. An improvement to Shadow Fade would likely be kind of OP given how strong Shadow Fade is already. It doesn't need more DPS, as 6d6 SA is pretty big.