Ninja Spy III

[DethTrip]

Below is a list of suggestions for ninja spy III compiled from my own ideas and others replies. Any one or combination of these would be great.

1. While in Greater Shadow Fade (or shadow fade) your critical unarmed attacks drain 1-3 levels from your target
2. +1 enhanced ki generation
3. An instant death assassin type strike that is better than quivering palm
4. Rolling a natural 20 does void IV effect minus the added damage and only on a sneak attack
5. Decrease the cooldown of touch of death
6. Teleport to enemies like orthons and devils do
7. Greater Shadow Fade (50% incorporeality that lasts 2 minutes)
8. Add another 3d6 or 4d6 sneak attack damage
9. Add wisdom modifier to damage
10. Lengthen shadow fade duration (if not creating greater shadow fade)
11. Replace short swords on spy I and II with shuriken abilities
12. Shuriken Manyshot skill that lasts for 10 or 20 seconds
13. Create an instant death shuriken attack for spy II
14. Add to the threat and/or multiplier of a critical hit
15. Add a ddoor ki skill
16. Add a mist creating ki skill
17. Hide-in-plain-sight
18. True seeing
19. Ghost touch

And please fix the TOD ring sets! Make the ninja spy set do something cool and relevant.

I have been adding ideas from replies to the list. I hope these suggestions give the devs enough ideas to get this pre done soon! Please feel free to leave helpful, non abusive thoughts, ideas, and/or suggestions for the Ninja Spy PRE. Thanks.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I have a few suggestions for ninja spy III. Any one or combination of these would be great.

1. Add another 4d6 sneak attack damage.
2. Decrease the cooldown of touch of death.
3. Add wisdom modifier to damage.
4. +1 enhanced ki generation.
5. An instant death assassin type strike that is better than quivering palm.
6. Greater Shadow Fade (50% incorporeality that lasts 2 minutes).

And please fix the TOD ring sets! Make the ninja spy set do something cool and relevant.

I will try to think up some others. If you have some non-abusive on topic suggestions, please feel free to reply. Thanks.

I imagine we'll see tier 3 following on from tier 2, such as
1. +3d6 sneak attack (for a total of +6d6)
2. Something to do with shortswords (extra offhand proc chance like tempest maybe?)
3. Something to do with sneaking (extra sneaking movement speed, even more Ki regen while sneaking)
4. Some dark move?

[DethTrip]

I just hope they make it something useful. Shintao gets silver DR bypass and ranged stuns. That's pretty strong.

The reason I came up with 4d6 sneak attack is looking at it as doubling each time. Spy I, 1d6. Spy II doubles to 2d6, Spy III doubles to 4d6. 7d6 isn't too strong imo compared to a capped rogue getting double that at 14d6 for only 2 APs for the capstone.

When you think of a ninja spy, you think of a very sneaky wraith like assassin. He swoops in, unheard or seen, and takes out his enemy quickly with a precision attack and without a sound. Greater Shadow Fade giving the full 50% incorporeality and an instant death type attack follows that flavor imo. Maybe make it so you have to be in Greater Shadow Fade, then you can do the special attack that is an instant kill. It needs to have a higher DC then quivering palm though. I could also see Greater Shadow Fade giving a +15 exceptional bonus to hide and move silently. I want something fairly powerful and fun. Something that goes along with what you would think a ninja spy would do. I hope they create spy III sometime soon as my dark path ninja spy II monk is my favorite to play and I would love to see him be a bit more powerful and more enjoyable to play.

[stille_nacht]

i think they should do something ninja-y in addition to the standard +3d6 SA, etc.

i would like to see-
All sneak attacks add:
Assassin's Blows- your weapons gain +1 to critical range
Deadly Blows- your weapons gain +1 to crit multiplier.

or something of the sort.

[Requiro]

More imagination gentlemen

You are the Ninjas. You supposed to be master of shuriken too

In my opinion 2 first tiers need some little improvements, to be competitive with Shintao.

Ninja Spy I :

• Weapon Focus: Shuriken
• additional +2 to-hit and dmg to Shuriken

Ninja Spy II:

• Improved Critical: Shuriken
• additional +2 to-hit and dmg to Shuriken
• Additional ability: uses 5 KI, Solid Fog effect (Don’t affect party members)

And now my suggestion for last Tier on level 18:

Ninja Spy III:

• +2 Balance, Hide, Move silently
• Improve Critical Threat range for Ninjas Weapons: +2 (for Shortsword and Shuriken)
• additional +2 to-hit and dmg to Shuriken
• additional Sneak attack: 3d6
• (passive) Ninja strike: if your sneak attack was Vorpal attack, you have opportunity to made massive damage to the target: 20d6 + 20 sneak damage and half with Fortitude save (DC 10 + (Monk Level/2) + Wisdom Modifier)
• 20% faster sneaking
• Special ability, Quaver Strike: KI:25, Colddown: 60 sec. Your attack is made with +1 to-hit modifier and ignore enemy fortification.

That will be cool, isn’t it ?

[Tunst]

and while we're at it.
why the hell can i walk on water.
*** IS THAT?!!!
lets get rid of such sillyness and get something useful.

and whats with the shortswords in general.
such uselessness.
2d12vs1d6?

adding wisdom to damage would be kinda nice honestly.
it would allow to build a dark monk using only con, dex, and wis.
getting weapon finesse also, and hitting up the wind stance.
but it would lose Void Strike IV

and yeah, the ToD set is ********.

[Tunst]

I think things like shurikens and shortswords should be with the Henshin Mystic.
I know not much of it, but judging by the set of +1d6 fire damage, he seems to be the monk of dps.
if it is going to be like that, i believe he should be one who gets more weapons and stuff.

Quaver strike, i believe would be nice if it was more of an ability.
Quaver Strike: Ki cost 25: Cooldown: 1 minute. For the next 15 seconds, all strike made will be made with +1 to hit and ignore enemy fortification.

yeahhhhh
Or even more stuns and stuff.
Maybe give us a variant of Jade, like an earth grab.

and our finishers while we're at it.
they friggin suck.
>.>

and as stated, AC would be really nice.
Ignoring miss chances... tht may be OP unless it does have a cooldown.



Really tho, i just wanna get something useful instead of walking on water. >

[Robi3.0]

I should clarify my ignore miss chances suggestion would basically be the ghost touch ability that comes on weapons. At level 18 that would hardly be OP even if it was a always on ability.

[Gulnar13]

Water walking it's wonderful in abbot.
Just saying.

[stille_nacht]

Water walking it's wonderful in abbot.
Just saying.

yeah but i bet they'll "fix" that soon :/, seeing as its supposed to be on touch.... i hope they dont...

[Zharfie]

yeah but i bet they'll "fix" that soon :/, seeing as its supposed to be on touch.... i hope they dont...

I hope they do



still waiting for henshin mystic and hoping it doesn't suck, or I'll be PrEless forever

[jkm]

if they add 3d6 to the ninja 3 there are a lot of assassins that are going to hit the roof in fury. that is equivalent to taking 11 rogue levels for god's sake. if they do anything other than move tier 2 down to 1d6 and put the other 1d6 at tier 3, they'll have to go back and revamp the rogue PrE's AGAIN.

#5 is the most likely, which would make it just as useless as assassin 3.

[Robi3.0]

Water walking it's wonderful in abbot.
Just saying.

and in the harbor which is the only other place it seems to work.

[Ganak]

Poison use, gaseous form, blindsight, always sneaky, ethereal jaunt.

[DethTrip]

I was hoping for more ideas than complaining but this is kinda what I expected. There are going to be racial and class overlap in this game. Happens a lot. Sorc, Wiz, and Bard. Cleric, Favored Soul, Ranger, Bard and Paladin. Monk, Ranger, and Rogue. Half Orc and Warforged. Half Elf and Human. Etc... They all have skills, feats and/or enhancements that cross. Can a wizard that takes all the archmage and energy enhancements approach the spell points of a sorc that takes none? Sure. But they spend a lot of APs on enhancements to do so.

Now you have some crossover with monks and rogues with sneak attack. Why is it off base to think a ninja could sneak attack close to as well as a rogue? I honestly think they should sneak attack at least as well. Especially if you are spending a bunch of APs to do so. I still believe 7d6 sneak attack is well within reason and should potentially be higher. The complaint of a proposed helf ninja spy III monk being able to get near or equal a capped rogue with the ROGUE dilly is a poor complaint since the reason they get the extra 3d6 SA is because they are considered part rogue!! It has nothing to do with a monk.

Some of you came up with some nice ideas. Thanks for trying to keep things on track.

I do not like the ideas of doing anything with short swords. I personally would like to see that part of the pre removed for something more useful and relevant. I would say add shuriken abilities instead. I can picture a shuriken hitting a troll in the eye and it falling to the ground dead. Maybe make a special shuriken instant death type attack. That is very interesting and sounds like a lot of fun.

I love the energy drain idea. Maybe when in Greater Shadow Fade (or shadow fade if they do not implement greater shadow fade), your unarmed critical strikes drain 1-3 levels, like the woowoo sticks. It's an existing ability that you would think wouldn't be too hard to implement. Picture shadow fade as a negative energy field around you that drains their life force on critical strikes.

I also like the idea for a longer shadow fade, if they do not create a greater shadow fade. 1 minute is way too short.

Adding to the critical multiplier and/or range is a nice idea. This only adds more dps and not much flavor though, but I like dps =-D

I LOVE the ddoor idea. Make it work like the potions you drink in the birthday event. You click on the skill, which costs ki of course, and it ddoors you back to the beginning of the quest. Excellent idea that really goes along with the ninja imo.

Another interesting idea is creating a mist. You see it in movies where they throw the explosive ball on the ground creating a mist and then they disappear. Would be kinda cool.

I really appreciate the replies that are hopefully giving the devs enough interesting ideas to bring ninja spy III to life. I will add them to the OP. Keep the ideas rolling.

[jkm]

Now you have some crossover with monks and rogues with sneak attack. Why is it off base to think a ninja could sneak attack close to as well as a rogue? I honestly think they should sneak attack at least as well. Especially if you are spending a bunch of APs to do so. I still believe 7d6 sneak attack is well within reason and should potentially be higher. The complaint of a proposed helf ninja spy III monk being able to get near or equal a capped rogue with the ROGUE dilly is a poor complaint since the reason they get the extra 3d6 SA is because they are considered part rogue!! It has nothing to do with a monk.

6d6 sneak attack damage would be the equivalent of 20 monk/11 rogue. now compare this with an assassin who gets 3d6 sneak attack for an equivalence of 25 rogue.

do you see where the problem is here? so don't you think that 1d6 per tier would seem right at 20 monk/5 rogue?


assassin 3 gets 3d6 sneak attack and 3 abilities that don't work on a ton of mobs in end game.

ninja spy 3 would get 6d6 sneak attack and at least 1 ability (shadow fade) that would work at end game.

and yes, i have both a rogue and a ToD dark monk.

[Calebro]

and yes, i have both a rogue and a ToD dark monk.

Give it up dude.
Robi's last response made me realize that they were never going to listen to reason.

I am sorry that you have an overly simplistic view of game design. A class is the some total of its abilities, and can not be defined by one individual ability.

The sum total of it's abilities?
You do realize that we're talking about the sum totals of a monks' abilities vs. the sum totals of a rogue's abilities, don't you? Monk's get WAY more abilities than rogues do. To give them a LARGE portion of a rogue's ability is exactly the problem that I'm speaking of.

But you guys are never going to see that, as evidenced by the edited list. Most of the items listed there would be OP for tier three by themselves when taken into consideration with what already exists, and you'll undoubtedly be asking for more than one.
It's "I want, I want, I want" with no thought of consequence as to how that will affect the balance of the class.

I'm finished commenting in this thread. I'll just watch, shake my head, and giggle to myself.

[BlackSteel]

what does a halfling rogue compared to a half elf ninja look like? comparing a butt knaked rogue to a highly specialized ninja doesnt make any sense.

the specced halfling is what? 16d6 + 22 at cap? versus 9d6 of the H-E ninja spy? nope not seeing a problem here. Both the PrE and the racial are supposed to mimic a rogue's abilities, and the monk is still getting less than half of what the rogue is. Sure, its only agaisnt the halfling, but everyone is up in arms about the half elf monk as well.

[Balthazar_No_Oni]

Give it up dude.
Robi's last response made me realize that they were never going to listen to reason.

As have all of your posts, guess what dude, its not "your way or the highway"

Rogues that neglect a skill or ability dont necessarily have to be better at it than another class that gets that ablity which then specializes in it. Not to mention if they go to the extent of taking a RACE just to specialize further in that ability.

[Blank_Zero]

I have a few suggestions for ninja spy III. Any one or combination of these would be great.

1. Add another 4d6 sneak attack damage.
2. Decrease the cooldown of touch of death.
3. Add wisdom modifier to damage.
4. +1 enhanced ki generation.
5. An instant death assassin type strike that is better than quivering palm.
6. Greater Shadow Fade (50% incorporeality that lasts 2 minutes).
7. While in Greater Shadow Fade (or shadow fade) your critical unarmed attacks drain 1-3 levels from your target.
8. Replace short swords on spy II with shuriken abilities.
9. Create an instant death shuriken attack for spy II
10. Lengthen shadow fade duration (if not creating greater shadow fade)
11. Add to the threat and/or multiplier of a critical hit.
12. Add a ddoor ki skill.
13. Add a mist creating ki skill.

And please fix the TOD ring sets! Make the ninja spy set do something cool and relevant.

I will try to think up some others. If you have some non-abusive on topic suggestions, please feel free to reply. Thanks.

1. 3d6 is plenty for NS3 adding
2. Reduced to 6 seconds would be a bit OP, but awesome =D
3. WIS to dmg mod? Awesome thought
4. +1 when sneaking? or all the time?
5. Yes
6. I wouldn't mind the 1 minute if I could stay invised for longer or stay stealthed through doors, etc.
7. A little OP, considering Assassin 3 Rogues only get this with ToD set.
8. Don't replace, just add Shurikens in as well.
9. Vorpal Shuriken? Give a bit more on this maybe?
10. Definitely
11. Increased Multiplier is ok, but increasing threat? How about decrease?
12. DDoor is good.
13. Solid Fog? or Obscuring Mist?

I LOVE the ddoor idea. Make it work like the potions you drink in the birthday event. You click on the skill, which costs ki of course, and it ddoors you back to the beginning of the quest. Excellent idea that really goes along with the ninja imo.

AND

Another interesting idea is creating a mist. You see it in movies where they throw the explosive ball on the ground creating a mist and then they disappear. Would be kinda cool.

How about combining this? Call it Smoke Bomb, and have a cool graphic as you teleport back to the entrance.