cowardly lion II - 18 pal koc 2 monk helf rogue dil

[chodelord]

The idea is that you use helf double diplomacy to keep shedding aggro and increase your ability to use your 3d6 sneak attack dice. Also lots of other goodies.

One possible point of contention is I used leveling stat raises into cha to qualify for DM 3. My reasoning is that 2 cha and dm3 vs 2 str is the same as for using power attack. You lose 1 hit, gain 1 damage also you gain an extra DM use, 1 to all saves, +1 smite dam, etc. Obviously you would put your points into str if you were a TR or had a +3 cha tome waiting for you.

IMO the survivability of evasion + the extra feats are worth giving up the capstone and divine sac 3 as nice as they are.

The only tomes required are a cheap +1 cha and a slightly more expensive +2 dex. Others are just gravy. At 28 points you would lose 2 initial STR. I wouldn't recommend this build if you don't have 32 points but I don't think it is that big a deal.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Monk) 
Hit Points: 318
Spell Points: 245 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 20
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             15                    20

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     9
Bluff                 2                     5
Concentration         6                     7
Diplomacy             6                    28
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     5
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate            2                     5
Jump                  3                     5
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         2                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

[lord_of_rage]

The idea is that you use helf double diplomacy to keep shedding aggro and increase your ability to use your 3d6 sneak attack dice. Also lots of other goodies.

One possible point of contention is I used leveling stat raises into cha to qualify for DM 3. My reasoning is that 2 cha and dm3 vs 2 str is the same as for using power attack. You lose 1 hit, gain 1 damage also you gain an extra DM use, 1 to all saves, +1 smite dam, etc. Obviously you would put your points into str if you were a TR or had a +3 cha tome waiting for you.

IMO the survivability of evasion + the extra feats are worth giving up the capstone and divine sac 3 as nice as they are.

The only tomes required are a cheap +1 cha and a slightly more expensive +2 dex. Others are just gravy. At 28 points you would lose 2 initial STR. I wouldn't recommend this build if you don't have 32 points but I don't think it is that big a deal.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Monk) 
Hit Points: 318
Spell Points: 245 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 20
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             15                    20

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     9
Bluff                 2                     5
Concentration         6                     7
Diplomacy             6                    28
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     5
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate            2                     5
Jump                  3                     5
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         2                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

I'm not sure Id roll it. Id drop the con to 12 and boost cha to 16 to qual for dm3 and put the points into str. I wouldnt take the monk lvls unless I was working a self healing option into the build, and needed the feats. The extra dps from ds3 the capstone and dm4 far outweigh the survivablity of two monk non self heals imo. Ive run an 18/2 human kotc at cap. He went back to pure pally. Pure allows you to break dr with echaos blades, the esos, and the new scimitar. The idea od diploing to shed aggro doesnt do it for me. You are a paladin. Youll have aggro. The smites and ds tend to keep it. Esp in quests with outsiders. The +1 saves is a wash. Your saves will already be high. I dont find the pally cha enhancements worth it. But thats me.

[chodelord]

Thanks for the reply.

If I happen to get a sos or twin chaos blades or find enough event play time to farm for a pair of super scimitars (in addition to the other stuff I want to farm for) then I would tentatively agree with you.

However I disagree with 12 con. 14 imo is the minimum you would ever want on any toon but especially for a non-evasion toon where your only real defense is your hp pool. Does the ion stone everyone is pimping absorb aoe spells?

Also which feats would your recommend giving up if you go pure? Extend and oversized are the easy ones but could losing oversized potentially make it hard to hit some bosses in epix (malicia)?

[SteeleTrueheart]

The idea is that you use helf double diplomacy to keep shedding aggro and increase your ability to use your 3d6 sneak attack dice. Also lots of other goodies.

Using diplo takes time = loss of dps > SA bonus. Shedding agro = not party friendly when you are supposed to be the tank

My reasoning is that 2 cha ... +1 smite dam, etc.

Charisma does NOT add to smite damage.

IMO the survivability of evasion + the extra feats are worth giving up the capstone and divine sac 3 as nice as they are.

It is a valid choice and many people feel the same. However I feel that in this game DPS is > Survivability unless you are a soloist.

With that much Charisma maybe a +2 Int tome would help you get points in UMD?

[lord_of_rage]

Thanks for the reply.

If I happen to get a sos or twin chaos blades or find enough event play time to farm for a pair of super scimitars (in addition to the other stuff I want to farm for) then I would tentatively agree with you.

However I disagree with 12 con. 14 imo is the minimum you would ever want on any toon but especially for a non-evasion toon where your only real defense is your hp pool. Does the ion stone everyone is pimping absorb aoe spells?

Also which feats would your recommend giving up if you go pure? Extend and oversized are the easy ones but could losing oversized potentially make it hard to hit some bosses in epix (malicia)?

Ive run 12con paladins for years. On a 32 pt build you cant hit dm4 without going with a 12 con. You lose 20 hp, from a 14-12. Its not a huge loss. My human is fine. He runs epics and doesnt have issues. Rage, ship buffs, madstone, greensteel hp items yulgo pots. You can get a solid sustained hp and be fine. The added dps beats 20 hp.