Pure Rogue AC

[Aerendil]

Curious if it's worth it or not.

At this point I'm levelling up a new Rogue that I'm loving, and getting up to the green steel levels now, so it's a tossup for me whether or not to go with +4 insight on the radII wpn, or fire blast as I'm unsure whether or not AC is worth it.
Did most of you try for a half-decent AC (50+) to mitigate *some* damage, or simply do the Warchanter route and rely on stoneskin + displacement/radiance as your effective AC?

For the record, the char is a half-elf with fighter dile, so I *could* take advantage of the +2 max dex to armour from that if I can spare up the APs for it.
Which could give me:
10 base
15 DT leathers with dex (mere 28 dex would fill this out with ftr dile)
2 ftr dile max dex
2 chaosgarde
5 protection/deflection
3 dodge on DT
2 mabar cloak
1 dodge ritual
5 combat expertise
4 shroud insight
==
49 base AC

3 barkskin
1 haste
4 shield wand
==
57 self-buffed

throw in full barkskin, pally aura, bard AC song, airship buffs (+3 AC), and short-lived buffs such as human versatility AC buff and uncanny dodge, and I could be looking at 70+ AC easily, with 80+ for 20sec durations.

Just curious how many pure Rogues went this route, and if it's worth it? It's somewhat gear-intensive, and also ties up a feat (CE, when I could instead take OTWF or something else).
I see a great synergy between having radiance weaponry + combat expertise - you're giving up almost nothing dps-wise for +5 AC, similar to the Ranger exploiter. But it would take a fair bit of work to get all of this.

[TheDearLeader]

Chaosgarde will not stack with the other gear you have.

The Protection/Deflection does not stack with the +5 Unspecified you have listed, the +2 Dodge doesn't stack with the Mabar Cloak +2 Dodge, since they are the same value.

Toggling Combat Expertise will always lose you DPS, because Power Attack is toggles off in the process. Radiance Weapons + Power Attack is still better than Radiance + CE.

Not saying that having a high AC is bad or anything - just be careful what you're sacrificing to get it there.

[Aerendil]

Chaosgarde will not stack with the other gear you have.

The Protection/Deflection does not stack with the +5 Unspecified you have listed, the +2 Dodge doesn't stack with the Mabar Cloak +2 Dodge, since they are the same value.

Toggling Combat Expertise will always lose you DPS, because Power Attack is toggles off in the process. Radiance Weapons + Power Attack is still better than Radiance + CE.

Not saying that having a high AC is bad or anything - just be careful what you're sacrificing to get it there.

Hmm, don't have a +5 unspecified, but you're right on the CG vs. Mabar, so I'd lose 2 AC there. Bugger.

As for PA vs. CE, I'd most likely take both and would only use CE solo.
My bigger concern is whether or not that AC is worthwhile, since if it's not I can free up a few items, and a feat

[TheDearLeader]

Hmm, don't have a +5 unspecified, but you're right on the CG vs. Mabar, so I'd lose 2 AC there. Bugger.

As for PA vs. CE, I'd most likely take both and would only use CE solo.
My bigger concern is whether or not that AC is worthwhile, since if it's not I can free up a few items, and a feat

You have +5 Protection/Deflection listed in your breakdown. I wasn't sure if this was hypothetical or something you wear, since you didn't list its source. Hence me calling it "unspecified".

The problem I see here is you want to use CE (so therefore AC) when soloing, but your self-buffed AC is only sitting at 55 Max. (-2 for Chaosgarde not stacking). You only get the nice high numbers when accompanied by a party/raid of ideal toons, or for short bursts using the Improved Uncanny Dodge + Versatility Boost. Not ideal for solo play.

So, in sum, it looks like you'd only be wanting to utilize the feat when your AC would already be at its absolute lowest. I just don't see it being very helpful to you when you're having to utilize a feat slot to make it happen.

[vyvy3369]

That [edit: as in, the numbers you posted] sounds about right. It was moderately useful to keep my AC up until around Amrath and starting to do higher end raids, after that it's just not worth bothering with. At the higher level content you're generally not getting aggro if things are going well anyways though, so it works out pretty well to at least have the ability to get a higher AC while leveling up.

Edit: I wouldn't bother with CE or any Feats towards AC. If you have the gear already, by all means use it as you level. Once you hit ~17, it's just not worth bothering with really in a party setting.

[Aerendil]

Thanks for the input folks. Looks like I'll just sit in PA mode and aim for Fire Blast on the RadII instead of Insight.

Feats TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Toughness, ICrit, PA, +1 other (maybe SF:UMD or OTWF).
Done deal.

Now to find a half-dozen large scales, ugh

[LeLoric]

The new event will have a set of leather armor that would make this much more reasonable for you. It is 9 armor bonus with a slot to make it 10. It has dodge 4. and an additional 6 to the max dex bonus which should make it 12. So with the fighter dilletante you could actually fill up to 14 max dex mod.

So looking there you could have.

10 base
10 armor
14 dex
4 dodge on armor
2 dodge mabar cloak
4 insight shroud
5 protection
1 alchem ritual
3 dodge chattering ring
1 dodge new event trinket

54 unbuffed unstanced

5 bark
1 haste
2 recitation
4 bard song
4 shield wand
6 pally aura
3 ship
3 heroic companion
5 combat expertise

87 max buffed ac

+6 uncanny dodge and +5 human versatility short term buffs.

[Aerendil]

^^ Only one problem with that. 14 max dex to armour requires a 38 dex.
Currently going Str-based with my level ups, so I'll be lucky to break 32 dex (16 base).
16 + 2 (half-elf) + 3 (rogue) + 3 (tome) + 6 (item) + 2 (exceptional) = 32ish :/ (not counting airship buffs or yugo pots)

Not to mention chattering ring, grrr.
But yeah, saw that armour (and the shortblade). Both look yummy.

[TheDearLeader]

The new event will have a set of leather armor that would make this much more reasonable for you. It is 9 armor bonus with a slot to make it 10. It has dodge 4. and an additional 6 to the max dex bonus which should make it 12. So with the fighter dilletante you could actually fill up to 14 max dex mod.

So looking there you could have.

10 base
10 armor
14 dex
4 dodge on armor
2 dodge mabar cloak
4 insight shroud
5 protection
1 alchem ritual
3 dodge chattering ring
1 dodge new event trinket

54 unbuffed unstanced

5 bark
1 haste
2 recitation
4 bard song
4 shield wand
6 pally aura
3 ship
3 heroic companion
5 combat expertise

87 max buffed ac

+6 uncanny dodge and +5 human versatility short term buffs.

The new armor may help, but it still looks like the only time he'd get this nice, high AC would be in situations where he's already stated he'll have PA on instead of CE, anyway. I also question even bothering to include Heroic Companion in these calcs :P

Now, 54 without CE isn't bad, I suppose. Lets play.

54
+3 Guild Barkskin Pot
+1 Haste Pot
+4 Shield Wand
+5 CE Stance
=67 Standing, higher with access to ship buffs.

So... looking at it like that, not too bad for anything outside of epic.

[LeLoric]

The new armor may help, but it still looks like the only time he'd get this nice, high AC would be in situations where he's already stated he'll have PA on instead of CE, anyway. I also question even bothering to include Heroic Companion in these calcs :P

Now, 54 without CE isn't bad, I suppose. Lets play.

54
+3 Guild Barkskin Pot
+1 Haste Pot
+4 Shield Wand
+5 CE Stance
=67 Standing, higher with access to ship buffs.

So... looking at it like that, not too bad for anything outside of epic.

This is why I listed it as max possible buffed ac very rarely are you gonna have all that.

Yugo wis pot gives +4 nat armor use that instead. Recitation scrolls are cheap and now last almost 1.5 min so are much more easier to use.

So theres 70 self buffed without ship. With short term buffs getting in the 80's.

[TheDearLeader]

This is why I listed it as max possible buffed ac very rarely are you gonna have all that.

Yugo wis pot gives +4 nat armor use that instead. Recitation scrolls are cheap and now last almost 1.5 min so are much more easier to use.

So theres 70 self buffed without ship. With short term buffs getting in the 80's.

I thought about listing Yugo pot instead of Barkskin, but meh. One has a penalty, the other doesn't, even if the penalty is rather minor. Good call on the recitation.

[voodoogroves]

Any value in chaosguards plus the level 16 mabar cloak?