Building An End Game Pale Master

[sephiroth1084]

My different gear set-up in this color.

Gear:
Helm Minos Legens/Epic Big top w/ +1 exc Wis Tempered GS +45 HP w/ +13 total Concentration (Str/Dex/Con for tiers--I think that's Water/Fire/Earth)
Necklace Epic Torc w/ +1 exc cha
Trinket Litany/eardweller/Mummified Bat for FF
Cloak Epic Silver Concord w/ transmutation focus Epic Envenomed Cloak (+5 Resist, +7 Con, some other stuff, and slotted with Heavy Fort).
Belt Epic Lion Headed Belt Buckle w/ Evocation focus and +1 exc con Currently Archmage (for set bonus, +0.25% crits), but you've convinced me to try epicing the Lion-Headed, which I've conveniently just pulled!
Goggles Conn Opp 150 sp +5 cha skills/Epic Spirit Sight w/ +1 exc Str Conc-Opp with Blindness/Disease Immunity, +150 SP, +5 Cha skills (made before PM came out, and with a cleanser, so unlikely to change ); made the Epic Spectacles, and they've been collecting dust.
Gloves 45 HP enervation guard Gloves of the Glacier--I want something else here, but not sure what...maybe replace helm with these and then put something else on my head? Perhaps Epic Helm of Frost?
Boots Epic Boots of corrosion w/ Heavy Fort Just need scroll, and then I have to decide who gets these: my wizard, tank, barb, monk, etc...; would likely stick +1 Con and either Toughness or Luck on these (and put the other on staff)/+5 cha skills 150 spell points conopp/Epic Kundarak currently wearing these almost all the time/firestorm/Tod Boots
Bracers Epic Bracers of Demon Consort w/ GFL and +6 con Bracers of the Glacier for the free Fire Shield and Spell Pen VIII at the moment, but convinced to try and acquire the DQ bracers (epic looks to be a ways off)
Ring 1 Sanuras Band w/ +2 int Rahkir's for me, and using the set bonus. If the PM set ever gets improved, I'd swap to that.
Ring 2 Epic Ring of the mire Another one you've convinced me to try and acquire/Epic Shaman's Band Hunting for the parts for this/Circle of hatredJust got this/Ring of djinn
Robes:
Epic Robe of Shadow Main robe
Epic Diabolists can make, but haven't bothered
Upgraded regalia of the pheonix haven't bothered upgrading
Epic Ironweave Do you ever wear this?
Weapon Sets:
Epic Staff of arcane Power if I ever could make this, I'd consider making the Diabolist Robe; not a priority for me
Epic Staff of Inner sight main weapon, currently with +1 Con (mistake)
Staff of the petitioner sometimes use for buffing
Dreamspitter Upgraded version is fantastic! Highly recommended!
Skiver/x major lore item Greenblade for me, with Sup. Pot. VI in other hand
45% cold absorption panacea clickie Pos/Pos Raise Dead clicky (in boots--GS tainted damage is not a problem with Death Aura going, though it is a little annoying)
+5 holy burst heavy pick/ seeker 10 heavy pick Do you feel this works better than the 'Spitter, or do you use these vs. DW'ed mobs?

Also currently use Skyvault Shield for blocking until I finish an Epic Kundarak Warding Shield w/ the Arcane Spell Failure reduction slotted.

For comparison, Elochka sits at 557 w/ Yugo pot and no ship buff or Toughness item, 577 w/+2 Con shrine, and will be 597 w/Toughness slotted somewhere. I think I have Human Adapt (Con) and either 2 or 3 ranks of Toughness enhancements. Probably going to drop a rank or two of those.

[Niktoo]

Awesome stuff here Lelo, thanks! Makes me want to TR my WF AM and try it out.
I really had no idea the pale master PRE was so useful, beyond the obvious wailing stuff in nhe content or dpsing stuff with the necro bolts

[LeLoric]

Do you see any disadvantage to going neutral good (to use ancestor rings) until such time as I loot a litany trinket for the +1, at which point I'd use a store bought alignment change item?

You take more damage from certain mobs when you are good alignment also. not a huge deal but theres not much reason no to. Like said earlier a tier II shroud item can cover your raises if needed without an alignment change.

[LeLoric]

Awesome stuff here Lelo, thanks! Makes me want to TR my WF AM and try it out.
I really had no idea the pale master PRE was so useful, beyond the obvious wailing stuff in nhe content or dpsing stuff with the necro bolts

Yeah I constantly see people post that archmage is much better for epic because necro spells don't work there. However palemasters get +2 int from lich form the ability to use yugo pot and more race options than a warfoged archmage making up the extra dc's they get. And the pale master gets it in all schools not just one or two.

[LeLoric]

Nice Lelo! I'm set-up in a very similar manner on Elochka. Some decisions I made on gear ended up hurting my chances at Heal-scroll UMD (Shroud HP item on head, locking out 3 from Epic Big Top, for example), so I got enough to use Raise scroll semi-reliably and ditched SF: UMD for Spell Focus: Enchantment. When I've TR'ed another 2 times (3 Wiz PLs), I'll probably drop Greater Spell Pen for one of Mental Toughness (I'd be curious to read what situations you use Wraith in over Lich), GSF: Enchant or SF: UMD. Yeah umd is a little hard to fit in it's really not recommended until you get the epic gear to consolidate slots and even then it usually costs you feats build points etc. It's a strong option to have though if you can fit it in without too much detriment. I really wanna do more tr's but I have other characters with more pressing needs and I hate to lose my scroll farmer for a few weeks.

Do you bother with a Concentration item? I may have missed one if you had it listed.

I've been using a +45 Tempered I GS Helm with Earth/Con at tier III for an always-on +13 Concentration. I had thought about an Ash item sometime during Elochka's first life and had abandoned the idea because I didn't have self-healing or the HP to be taking hits, but I think I might craft a replacement helm for when I've got Quicken running. How often does it seem to proc?

Currently I don't have a concentration item on regularly. I do have a set of tempered boots I will swap to if umding alot but otherwise quicken is always on. As far as enervation guard it proc's quite a bit. It's hard to get actual numbers without testing that I don't have the time to do but it's enough to be pretty noticeable about 5% i would guess.

Also, on the Mabar robes bug. When you swap robes, you have to drop form before re-equiping your robe, or was that only when you get DW'ed? I really wish the devs would clean up these 2 outstanding PM bugs.

Whenever I am in form and I swap robes I lose boon. To get it back I have found that I hav e to leave form and swap out of the mabar robe and back in to get it back. It is really annoying to deal with this and limits robe swapping for me quite a bit.

What did you slot your Staff of Inner Sight with? I put +1 Con, because that was the first epic I made with an open slot, but I kind of regret it, as I don't like losing HP when I swap weapons, even if it comes back quickly once changed back.

Currently unslotted I have more epic items that I have the tokens to slot right now. In fact a lot of the stuff I have typed out there I still don't have slotted as I've been farming up tokens to slot my rogues abashai set. My +1 con is on my belt which also has swapping issues actually I was losing 7 con everytime i went to use an amrath belt but I put +6 con on the colorless slot on bracers just to help alleviate that. Im actually at a current gear setup where the +7 makes me odd so I tend to use the Staff of arcane power instead. I really like the extended durations of shorter spells and the +2 spell pen it gives as well as 2d6 more on polar ray and 2d8 more necrotic ray.

Clean, while I'm not Leloric, Elochka is set-up similarly. I primarily go Epic Robe of Shadow and Epic Staff of Inner Sight, unless I'm doing a lot of nuking, and then I swap the staff for a Greenblade and Superior Potency VI scepter. Generally speaking, if I'm blasting stuff, I don't need the extra 1 DC/Reflex save from the staff's 7 Int. Amrath clickies, Regalia and Epic Robe of Fire usually cover me for everything. In some fights where I want the extra 20 HP (see my comment above about my slotting mistake), I swap the Torc for the Noxious Embers to cover my Greater Arcane Lore.

Yeah it's not listed there but I will often swap embers for torc for heavy nuking and keep the staff of arcane power on. Ise clickies for my damage boost and get teh extra to necrotic ray and polar ray with the staff. That being said I rarely heavy nuke anymore.

I can make the Epic Robe of the Diabolist, and can almost make the Epic Greenblade (could have bought a scroll, but it's not pressing enough to spend so much), but I really like the Mabar robe's stats too much to take it off for more than a second to use a clicky.

Especially with the bug I rarely swap this out also. Even without the bug it is still the best thing to wear 90% of the time.

Answers in red there.

One question I didn't answer was when I use wraith form. Wraith I use for tod kiting, orthon kiting in tod if i forget to load fear after part 2, adq chest farming, solo claw of vulkoor runs, kiting reavers in von 6 which i actually do little kiting more just stand there displaced and let em beat on me while i bolt/blast velah. Sometimes I'll throw it on while scroll farming also just to negate some further damage and move faster in and out of firewalls. It's basically used anytime I wanna run faster or not get hit as much. Stealth opportunities I also will use this. I also wraith alot when zerging through lower level content farmign ingredients or an item or something.

Nothing here is that important but I enjoy having that tool to use.

[LeLoric]

My different gear set-up in this color.

Also currently use Skyvault Shield for blocking until I finish an Epic Kundarak Warding Shield w/ the Arcane Spell Failure reduction slotted.

For comparison, Elochka sits at 557 w/ Yugo pot and no ship buff or Toughness item, 577 w/+2 Con shrine, and will be 597 w/Toughness slotted somewhere. I think I have Human Adapt (Con) and either 2 or 3 ranks of Toughness enhancements. Probably going to drop a rank or two of those.

I don't even carry a shield anymore. Theres times it would be useful I guess but not enough to warrrant an extra inventory spot. I may eventually make an epic kws if I come up with the spare ingredients through dragon raiding but it's not a high priority. I can usually handle at least 3 archers beating on me without using bursts. I can buff to over 600 hp with yugo and ship and it seems more than enough.

The picks I rarely use but they are nice to pull out when chrono scroll farming and a divine caster gets off a mass dw. I don't use the ironweave robe no it's actually in the bank now I played around with it and prismatic spray but I find that spell is just not reliant enough for me. That and the boon bug keeps me from actually using any other robes except very rare occasions.

[Anthios888]

Great thread, Lelo ...

A new generation of gimps has been inspired!

[sephiroth1084]

Answers in red there.

One question I didn't answer was when I use wraith form. Wraith I use for tod kiting, orthon kiting in tod if i forget to load fear after part 2, adq chest farming, solo claw of vulkoor runs, kiting reavers in von 6 which i actually do little kiting more just stand there displaced and let em beat on me while i bolt/blast velah. Sometimes I'll throw it on while scroll farming also just to negate some further damage and move faster in and out of firewalls. It's basically used anytime I wanna run faster or not get hit as much. Stealth opportunities I also will use this. I also wraith alot when zerging through lower level content farmign ingredients or an item or something.

Nothing here is that important but I enjoy having that tool to use.

I'd forgotten that Wraith comes with faster movement speed. I think I'll have to work this in and try it out whenever I TR Elochka again--I, too, have other TR concerns with a Rogue, Barbarian, Ranger and Monk all soon to be ready to TR, with some last raid runs beforehand, so TRing the wizard soon is not going to happen. Maybe somewhere in the midst of the other guys.

I don't even carry a shield anymore. Theres times it would be useful I guess but not enough to warrrant an extra inventory spot. I may eventually make an epic kws if I come up with the spare ingredients through dragon raiding but it's not a high priority. I can usually handle at least 3 archers beating on me without using bursts. I can buff to over 600 hp with yugo and ship and it seems more than enough.

I tend to use it a bit if I'm mana-farming archers with other aggro around, when Velah is breathing and I've got a pair of Claws on me and can't dodge, and sometimes to make the melees and healers happy: If stuff isn't chasing me the first group is happy, and if my HP doesn't bounce around too much the latter is saved some anxiety.

The picks I rarely use but they are nice to pull out when chrono scroll farming and a divine caster gets off a mass dw. I don't use the ironweave robe no it's actually in the bank now I played around with it and prismatic spray but I find that spell is just not reliant enough for me. That and the boon bug keeps me from actually using any other robes except very rare occasions.

The DW clerics are annoying. I've taken to trying to stone the first one in Chrono as soon as everything spawns, hit it a few times with the Dreamspitter and then drag everything down the ramp into my bottleneck o' death and destruction. If they get it off, it's Ice Storm and free MMs from PL. I tend to only bother farming to the first group up the stairs in the beginning before shrining and recalling, as I find that the efficiency of the run drops precipitously if an abishai shows up. That, and I'm hunting scrolls and seals in a few areas, so it keeps me cycling.

I miss using Prismatic Spray, actually. I found it to be a lot of fun. I think I need to work it back into my rotation.

And because I didn't say so strongly enough before, Great thread, Lelo! I'd +1 but for having given you some recently.

[Shadow7375]

Thanks a lot for this one. Very nicely done.

[LeLoric]

Dwarves aren't a bad choice for Pale Master IMO, as long as you don't shoot at max UMD, then go Human (Versatility) or Drow. The only thing dwarves give you is +4 Con, but then that's still nice and Dwarves aren't falling behind humans that much (about the same as Warforged).

Also in your skill section you didn't add balance. I think balance is quite important for a PM to stand up when tripped.

You could add Minos, Skivver and a decent shield for torc-turtle (I like epic weathered targe: 0%spell failure greater spear block, blue and violet slot) to your item's section.

Everything else looks very good.

Just my 0.002 pp

Regards Tore

I would actually put dwarf above wf for a pale master honestly because all the wf bonuses are lost on a pale master except the hp. Dwarfs can also take enhancements to give them good saves. However this is all ap intensive and I already have a thinly stretched ap pool. Truth be told the extra hp aren't gonna make that much of a difference as you should be able to get plenty with any race and my fort save runs at 35 and reflex at 33 will is 28 but i'm immune to any will save effect anyways.

You are right balance is important and I didnt add it I will.

I tend to not use a shield as I have enough dr to torc up on epic content without it and generally have a staff in hand. However a shield is a good idea before you get a lot of the other gear. Epic weathered is a good choice but the shard is very rare. I have all ther other gear I listed in my build and have yet to even see a targe shard. An easier one to get would be the epic kundarak and slot one of its slots with the arcane failure and get more dr out of it and more saves.

[LeLoric]

One thing I wanted to touch on here. A lot of your gear comes from demon queen raid and epic demon queen is one of the hardest places to stay in lich form especially if you use the ball up method. You can stay in lich and heal through it but its rough and takes away from your dps ability quite a bit. Wraith does help here if you wanna stay undead for the concealment bonus but keep in mind youll be down 40 hp.

[sephiroth1084]

One thing I wanted to touch on here. A lot of your gear comes from demon queen raid and epic demon queen is one of the hardest places to stay in lich form especially if you use the ball up method. You can stay in lich and heal through it but its rough and takes away from your dps ability quite a bit. Wraith does help here if you wanna stay undead for the concealment bonus but keep in mind youll be down 40 hp.

Epic DQ 2 is actually the only place where I don't go into undead form.

[LeLoric]

I used to not go undead for this but I recently changed my tactics. I can keep myself up just fine and being able to run around to put firewalls on outer platforms is a good thing (not that I can't without it as I have umd and etc to help but its just easier this way). Plus I never have to take off my bracers although thte occasional run through the explorer areas to quests will smack me with a neg level every once in a while lol.

But until really well geared this is probably a spot to not use a form.

[Jaid314]

I used to not go undead for this but I recently changed my tactics. I can keep myself up just fine and being able to run around to put firewalls on outer platforms is a good thing (not that I can't without it as I have umd and etc to help but its just easier this way). Plus I never have to take off my bracers although thte occasional run through the explorer areas to quests will smack me with a neg level every once in a while lol.

But until really well geared this is probably a spot to not use a form.

or...

you could just try an all-pale master run. with 12 auras (well... 24, since you can have lesser and regular going at the same time) i would think the healing would be a bit more up to par?

[sephiroth1084]

I used to not go undead for this but I recently changed my tactics. I can keep myself up just fine and being able to run around to put firewalls on outer platforms is a good thing (not that I can't without it as I have umd and etc to help but its just easier this way). Plus I never have to take off my bracers although thte occasional run through the explorer areas to quests will smack me with a neg level every once in a while lol.

But until really well geared this is probably a spot to not use a form.

I had done a few runs keeping myself up, but had one where we got hit with some bad lag, and there's just really no way for you to keep yourself up through that, whereas two or three healers spamming mass cures and Heal to compensate usually will keep you up. I prefer having the aura up so I can basically ignore the archers and blades, but dying to lag just because I was unhealable by everyone else didn't sit well with me.

or...

you could just try an all-pale master run. with 12 auras (well... 24, since you can have lesser and regular going at the same time) i would think the healing would be a bit more up to par?

I want to do this! Tried EDQ2 on an all-caster run, but we were of too mixed a composition (4 or 5 PM, 3 or 4 WF and a few fleshies). The disparate sorts of healing just weren't enough to keep the group up, but it seemed like the PMs were right around critical mass for enough healing. One or two more would probably be enough to keep the whole group up as long as everyone had enough HP (some seemed to not), and then we'd need either more PMs just for the nuking, or lots and lots of majors.

A 12 PM run seems both doable and fun.

[shagath]

Very good and informative thread. Must reading for new PMs. Your gear-setup is pretty much same as mine(I just don't have that many epic desert items because of TRs). I use upgraded light & darkness for shield blocking btw.

Anyhow, one thing puzzled me..

I don't use the ironweave robe no it's actually in the bank now I played around with it and prismatic spray but I find that spell is just not reliant enough for me.

What does that robe have to do with prismatic spray? I've always thought prismatic spray takes up your highest boost so amrath belts, sup inferno IX & eardweller should be ok for rare occasions or am I missing something?

[Carpone]

Umd
11 ranks
9 mod
3 SF
5 shroud
3 persuasion
3 Big top
34
+4 GH
38

Helm Minos Legens/Epic Big top w/ +1 exc Wis
Cloak Epic Silver Concord w/ transmutation focus

I don't understand why you're focusing on UMD so much as a pale master. It's not like you need to cast Harm scrolls when you have Death Aura and Negative Energy Burst. Harm scrolls are also extremely limited in availability.

Minos Legens is not end game pale master gear. You should be slotting Heavy Fort and Toughness in epic gear, opening the head slot for more interesting options. For example, you could replace Minos Legens and Cloak of the Silver Concord with Epic Envenomed Cloak and Epic Helm of Frost. Now you have +3 evocation caster levels too (when Turbine finally fixes it). The Envenomed Cloak provides you +5 resist (which you didn't have before) and 7 CON, along with a green aug slot.

Bracers Epic Bracers of Demon Consort w/ GFL and +6 con

Why slot this with 6 CON when the Epic Lion Headed Belt Buckle already has it?

Belt Epic Lion Headed Belt Buckle w/ Evocation focus and +1 exc con
Goggles Conn Opp 150 sp +5 cha skills/Epic Spirit Sight w/ +1 exc Str
Gloves 45 HP enervation guard
Boots Epic Boots of corrosion w/ Heavy Fort/+5 cha skills 150 spell points con opp/Epic Kundarak/firestorm/Tod Boots
Ring 1 Sanuras Band w/ +2 int
Ring 2 Epic Ring of the mire/Epic Shaman's Band/Circle of hatred/Ring of djinn

Where is your Archmagi item?

Weapon Sets:
2x epic midnight greetings

Huh?

Conj increase 2 with robe swap to Epic diabolists

It's actually +3 DC from Epic Conjuration Focus.

[LeLoric]

I don't understand why you're focusing on UMD so much as a pale master. It's not like you need to cast Harm scrolls when you have Death Aura and Negative Energy Burst. Harm scrolls are also extremely limited in availability.

As I have stated many times umd is more for me to help heal and raise others. I can solo heal many epic quests. It's a choice I make.

Minos Legens is not end game pale master gear. You should be slotting Heavy Fort and Toughness in epic gear, opening the head slot for more interesting options. For example, you could replace Minos Legens and Cloak of the Silver Concord with Epic Envenomed Cloak and Epic Helm of Frost. Now you have +3 evocation caster levels too (when Turbine finally fixes it). The Envenomed Cloak provides you +5 resist (which you didn't have before) and 7 CON, along with a green aug slot.

Minos I wear when soloing or not really needing to worry about umd. When I use the big top I swap to epic boots of corrosion w/ heavy fort and Con opp goggles. It would be +1 evocation level for me normally I generally wear the Epic staff of arcane power pretty much full time. I have +5 fort already from a greensteel and +3 to all others from nightshield. I will probably make a cloak when I get the ingredients for another one but currently don't have one.

Why slot this with 6 CON when the Epic Lion Headed Belt Buckle already has it?

This is so I dont lose 80 points every time I swap to a belt clickie I don't have too much more to do with the colorless slot.

Where is your Archmagi item?

Epic staff of arcane power or skiver

Huh?

With int to damage and disintegrate these are used as portal beaters


It's actually +3 DC from Epic Conjuration Focus.

It's 2 as I already have a conj focus on an item, Epic shaman's band

replies in red.

[sephiroth1084]

I don't understand why you're focusing on UMD so much as a pale master. It's not like you need to cast Harm scrolls when you have Death Aura and Negative Energy Burst. Harm scrolls are also extremely limited in availability. Still useful to be able to use some Harm scrolls as Harm is the only way to remove stat damage (mostly Cha) while in undead form, and it kind of sucks to have to spend 100 SP just to remove some Cha damage before you go helpless. The Circle of Hatred probably covers this need entirely, but its still probably useful, if even just for that.

Additionally, however, there are Raise Dead, Resurrection and True Resurrection scrolls, which are more than worth being able to UMD. Plus, Lelo has mentioned healing quests via Heal scrolls a couple of times in this thread.

Minos Legens is not end game pale master gear. You should be slotting Heavy Fort and Toughness in epic gear, opening the head slot for more interesting options. For example, you could replace Minos Legens and Cloak of the Silver Concord with Epic Envenomed Cloak and Epic Helm of Frost. Now you have +3 evocation caster levels too (when Turbine finally fixes it). The Envenomed Cloak provides you +5 resist (which you didn't have before) and 7 CON, along with a green aug slot. I think I may consider this route: Swap my Tempered I +45 HP GS helm to...gloves I guess, and maybe change them to Ash, and put on the Epic Helm of Frost and Boots of Corrosion. It's going to be that, or the Ring of Silver Concord in place of Thelis and hotswapping with Shaman's Band, depending on what items I get first, and which toon ends up getting the boots.

Getting the Cha into permanent gear would be nice, though I'm not sure its necessary. I may if I go with the 3-piece Abishai set, since the helm has a slot (no idea what I'd put in a yellow slot on my wizard) and the set bonus, which is useful.

[LeLoric]

Several questions as to what event items a pale master should look for. Theres not a lot here really although here's my thoughts on a few.

Level 16 ornamental dagger Sup Potency 6 Major Fire Lore Major Ice Lore (upgraded once third upgrade is for major lightning lore but currently I rarely cast lightning and may not go to tier III.)

Saves me 2 inventory spots. I like that.

Lev 20 Ornamental Dagger. Sup Pot VII, Arcane Lore, Improved Maximize II, Yellow Slot

I dont like slots on my weapons much although just an evocation focus wouldn't be bad. Imp maximize is good, Arcane lore is bad, Sup Pot VII is only for when your too lazy to hit a clickie and the lev 16 provides this for all but lev 7 spells. I actually think I like the lev 6 more here.

Lev 20 Spyglass. +3 enhancement umd, +2 exc int, spot 20, search 20, green slot.

Not a bad item if you don't have litany. Also better if you haven't crafted a tod ring yet as theres a +2 con you could add that you didnt have before. Also good for anyone trying for umd. Green slots are always good.

Those are really about it. The cunning trinket does offer 50 stacking spell points.