Hardcore Mode Proposal

[Drall.]

Goal:

Provide an optional way to play the game with a higher level of difficulty making the game closer to PnP where you go to the content once with a high level of challenge.

Basic Principle:

Hardcore Mode would limit a number of elements forcing players to make due with a lot less along with simple mechanics to help HC Characters play together.

Hardcore Flag:

- A character can be created with the HC flag. This can only be done at character creation. The HC flag can be removed if the player want to continue playing the character in a normal way. Once the HC flag is removed it cannot be added back.

Grouping:

- A HC character can only group with other HC characters.

Quest selection:

- A HC character can only enter a quest on elite level and cannot exceed the quest level. If the character is level 5, he can enter level 3 quests (base 3 + 2 on elite=5) or higher. For chains with multiple levels of quests in them, the highest quest level is used.
- A HC character cannot repeat the same quest twice.
- A HC character get no xp past 200 kills in explorer areas.
- A HC character get no xp for killing the same rare a second time. No items are generated in chest for the second killing of a rare.
- A HC character cannot enter an explorer area below his level.

This means no easy xp in HC. Earn your levels.

Equipment:

- A HC character cannot trade with another character.
- A HC character cannot access the shared bank.
- A HC character cannot use the Auction House.
- A HC character cannot use brokers.
- A HC character cannot buy any magical items at regular vendors (potions, wands, + items)
- A HC character cannot use guild buffs.
- Note that you can still use collectibles and favor merchants.

This means not twinking in HC, you use what you find and get as rewards.

Death and other mishaps:

- Raise shrine do not work inside quests. If you die, you leave.
- If you exit a dungeon, you cannot retake that quest again on that character.
- The HC character can only get raised a number of time equal to half his constitution, after which the HC flag is removed.

Yeah, don't die.

Social Tools:

- HC character are identified on the social tab and a filter is available to see all online.
- HC character has access to a chat channel that can only be accessed by HC characters.
- The highest level obtained with a HC character by a player would be made visible on the social tab list, the forum profile and myDDO. For example HC14 means that the player was able to reach level14 in HC mode.

HC Guild:

- A guild can be flagged as a HC guild. Any character no longer HC is removed from an HC guild. Note that a HC character can still be in any guild though.


There you go. I believe that these rules in combinations would make the game challenging from level 1 to wherever you can make it. They are actually easier settings in many cases than what hardcore permadeath guilds have been doing for years. The net effect is that these restrictions forces team tactics and makes the team play a lot more like PnP.

Remember that this mode is in addition to the existing game. There might be some raids that are near impossible to complete under these circumstances for example...well you can do that with your other characters

Last point, I tried to keep things simple from a potential implementation perspective, i.e. remove and limit things rather than create a lot of brand new mechanics.

Comments are welcomed!

[ninjabob78]

Good idea although i do think not letting HC toons buy any pots/wands etc from vendors is a bit over the top.
Although it would make spell components very much sought after and require use of the some speels we dont see much
(Ooze puppet ftw)

[MrLarone]

i skim read admittedly, but there seem to be no reason stopping you from playing this way, a lot of it seems very similar to perma death grouping, in fact i'd say they're exactly teh same apart from not deleting the toon upon death...

that said,

/not signed/

dev time else where please =)

[Cyr]

So another proposal for a special ruleset to be coded into the game for permadeath players.

/not signed

Permadeath characters can already enforce this upon themselves no need for Turbine to do it for them.

[Gulnar13]

Quest selection:

- A HC character can only enter a quest on elite level and cannot exceed the quest level. If the character is level 5, he can enter level 3 quests (base 3 + 2 on elite=5) or higher. For chains with multiple levels of quests in them, the highest quest level is used.
- A HC character cannot repeat the same quest twice.
- A HC character get no xp past 200 kills in explorer areas.
- A HC character get no xp for killing the same rare a second time. No items are generated in chest for the second killing of a rare.
- A HC character cannot enter an explorer area below his level.

This means no easy xp in HC. Earn your levels.

I higly doubt anyone can get past lv 12-14 with this ruleset. Not from the already high difficulty, but from a copious lack of xp.

[Four20]

looks like you do follow all of these suggestions yourself without asking Turbine to take time from developing new content, in order to develop this game alternative that you could do by yourself and friends(with a little discipline)

have fun with your hardcore mode. personally im not done grinding for ADQ raid gear by lvl 14, and im not done grinding reavers fate raid gear by lvl 16.

[aldan]

Goal:

Provide an optional way to play the game with a higher level of difficulty making the game closer to PnP where you go to the content once with a high level of challenge.

Basic Principle:

Hardcore Mode would limit a number of elements forcing players to make due with a lot less along with simple mechanics to help HC Characters play together.

Hardcore Flag:

- A character can be created with the HC flag. This can only be done at character creation. The HC flag can be removed if the player want to continue playing the character in a normal way. Once the HC flag is removed it cannot be added back.

Grouping:

- A HC character can only group with other HC characters.

Quest selection:

- A HC character can only enter a quest on elite level and cannot exceed the quest level. If the character is level 5, he can enter level 3 quests (base 3 + 2 on elite=5) or higher. For chains with multiple levels of quests in them, the highest quest level is used.
- A HC character cannot repeat the same quest twice.
- A HC character get no xp past 200 kills in explorer areas.
- A HC character get no xp for killing the same rare a second time. No items are generated in chest for the second killing of a rare.
- A HC character cannot enter an explorer area below his level.

This means no easy xp in HC. Earn your levels.

Equipment:

- A HC character cannot trade with another character.
- A HC character cannot access the shared bank.
- A HC character cannot use the Auction House.
- A HC character cannot use brokers.
- A HC character cannot buy any magical items at regular vendors (potions, wands, + items)
- A HC character cannot use guild buffs.
- Note that you can still use collectibles and favor merchants.

This means not twinking in HC, you use what you find and get as rewards.

Death and other mishaps:

- Raise shrine do not work inside quests. If you die, you leave.
- If you exit a dungeon, you cannot retake that quest again on that character.
- The HC character can only get raised a number of time equal to half his constitution, after which the HC flag is removed.

Yeah, don't die.

Social Tools:

- HC character are identified on the social tab and a filter is available to see all online.
- HC character has access to a chat channel that can only be accessed by HC characters.
- The highest level obtained with a HC character by a player would be made visible on the social tab list, the forum profile and myDDO. For example HC14 means that the player was able to reach level14 in HC mode.

HC Guild:

- A guild can be flagged as a HC guild. Any character no longer HC is removed from an HC guild. Note that a HC character can still be in any guild though.


There you go. I believe that these rules in combinations would make the game challenging from level 1 to wherever you can make it. They are actually easier settings in many cases than what hardcore permadeath guilds have been doing for years. The net effect is that these restrictions forces team tactics and makes the team play a lot more like PnP.

Remember that this mode is in addition to the existing game. There might be some raids that are near impossible to complete under these circumstances for example...well you can do that with your other characters

Last point, I tried to keep things simple from a potential implementation perspective, i.e. remove and limit things rather than create a lot of brand new mechanics.

Comments are welcomed!

Drall,

No offense but havent you just created the rules to follow? Create an HC guild and run with them. That way the devs can spend time getting us some content before we all go to the loony bin for too many TRs. I do have a life and cannot seem to level my TRs cause I dont play that much.

[sephiroth1084]

Why are people always asking for coded rules and alterations for things that are entirely within their power to produce with the current game?

[iraiqat316]

You should change it from hard core to Tough S***. If Lag gets you then what?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

You can do all that without any need for coding by founding your own hardcore guild and imposing your own hardcore rules.

Since no two groups will ever agree on what appropriate rules are (just check out the different flavors of PD for an example) its idiodic for Turbine to waste programming time catering to the desires of one person/group who don't trust the people they play with to play by the agreed upon rules.

[Keybreaker]

It's been snowing a lot here. Can you take time off from your job and come and shovel my driveway please? For free?

Effectively, this is what you're asking for. You're advocating not using the shared bank, not buying consumables (presumably this includes store sp/xp pots and rez cakes), etc... Like it or not, these are the microtransactions DDO needs in order to stay in business. It would not make sense for developers to spend resources and time implementing your version of HC mode since it amounts to working harder to make less money.

As others have suggested, and judging by your sig, self-restrained permadeath seems like your only viable option.

Can you think of a different version of HC mode that wouldn't be business suicide?

[Drall.]

Interesting responses. I did not expect answers to be based on intentions projected on to me as a PDer but rather on the idea itself.

So, let's separate the proposal from the porposer.

As a permadeath player the HC mode is actually useless to me, as many pointed out. The goal is not to help PD play, it already work as is, but rather to offer a middle of the road alternative to the general population that find PD a tad too harsh.

HC is aimed at people that want a higher level of challenge and risks that forces team tactical play without having to go to Hardcore PD per say.

Again, if you believe that the part of the player base that would want more of a DnD type of crawl with added risks and challenge would be too small for the cost involved here, that's a very valid opinion.

However, If you made the quick equation:

Poster = PD player
PD player = Idea just for PD players

Then I ask you reconsider the proposal on its own merits.

Lastly, in terms of the financial impact to turbine, this mode forces the ability to open on elite, not necessarilly a bad thing for them

[sephiroth1084]

Pretty sure most people's responses amounted to: We don't need programming to do something that can easily be done in the game by making choices about your playstyle and who you group with. Nothing you proposed requires programming to implement.

I wouldn't ask for a no-zergers server, since you can just...GASP!...not zerg. You can play with these hardcore rules on existing servers with the existing game engine and mechanics. What purpose would developing something entirely new serve in this case?

[Drall.]

... You can play with these hardcore rules on existing servers with the existing game engine and mechanics. What purpose would developing something entirely new serve in this case?

Fair enough. You are right that you can do it through a common behavior convention.

I think the main value of automating the playstyle as proposed is for visibility and scalability.

Visiblity in the sense that if the style is implemented, it becomes a lot more obvious that it exists and many more people might try it. This is based on the assumption that only a smaller percentage of players read the forums where they would find more about HC guilds based on convention. I mean the choice is there at creation forcing everyone to ask...what's that HC thing anyways?

Some automation would help for match-up for level-appropriate questing. With the level limitations to keep things hardcore I think you would need some of the facilities described to assemble groups easily.

I also think that removing the self-discipline aspect necessary for convention-driven HC would probably make it more accessible to more people. You might say that I am somewhat pessimistic vis-a-vis human nature, and you might be right, but for some reason I don't think I am far off on this one.

[sephiroth1084]

Fair enough. You are right that you can do it through a common behavior convention.

I think the main value of automating the playstyle as proposed is for visibility and scalability.

Visiblity in the sense that if the style is implemented, it becomes a lot more obvious that it exists and many more people might try it. This is based on the assumption that only a smaller percentage of players read the forums where they would find more about HC guilds based on convention. I mean the choice is there at creation forcing everyone to ask...what's that HC thing anyways?

Put up LFMs advertising Hardcore. There you go: visibility. Don't put anything else, and people will likely wonder what that is. See how cheap and easy that is?

Do more people necessarily need to be pulled into this style of gameplay? No. If people want to play a different way, they'll seek out change, or not. Turbine doesn't need to spend money to simply give people greater awareness about another way to play that they could be doing now anyway, but for exposure. I'd sooner be in favor of adding a load-screen tip about Permadeath play than anything else.

Some automation would help for match-up for level-appropriate questing. With the level limitations to keep things hardcore I think you would need some of the facilities described to assemble groups easily.

There are these wonderful inventions called 'guilds' that I hear are designed to facilitate the formation of groups of like-minded, interested individuals in need of camaraderie in adventuring.

I also think that removing the self-discipline aspect necessary for convention-driven HC would probably make it more accessible to more people. You might say that I am somewhat pessimistic vis-a-vis human nature, and you might be right, but for some reason I don't think I am far off on this one.

Turbine doesn't need to be the thought-police. If you can't stick to playing HC, you probably don't actually want to be playing HC. Also, what matter is it to you if other people aren't staying honest?

Really, this whole topic is one big FAIL.

[Nebless]

Goal:

Provide an optional way to play the game with a higher level of difficulty making the game closer to PnP where you go to the content once with a high level of challenge.

As a counter proposal why not either add a dungeon level call it Max or Killer or whatever that is set at level 25 or 30.

An alternate would be for DDO to borrow from LotRO's skirmish scaling and have any dungeon setting you go into scale to 5 levels above the highest level toon.

I believe either of those would also achieve your Goal and would be a boon to those looking for harder dungeon settings as Elite doesn't seem to cut it for some.

[pie2655]

/signed