GS Greataxe Vrs. GS Greatsword

[fncrzyjordan]

So whats the appeal with Barbians and the GS Greataxe? If your not going dwarf then is a GS Greatsword not as much dmg. as the Greataxe? They are both 3d6...

[Falith12]

higher crit multiplier

[fncrzyjordan]

higher crit multiplier

Which one?

[Falith12]

the Great Axe has a higher crit multiplyer, x3, while the Great Sword has higher threat range, but only an x2 multiplyer

[Khanyth]

Crits...... ftw baby!

[andbr22]

Unforutunetly it don't make a diffrence DPS wise... It only differ when you go Auto Crit mode then Axes > Greatsword. Also Aligmend bursts are better scaling with wide crit range not high multiplayer (the diffrence is not big (0,7 DMG per hit for swords against axes))

[Khanyth]

Unforutunetly it don't make a diffrence DPS wise... It only differ when you go Auto Crit mode then Axes > Greatsword. Also Aligmend bursts are better scaling with wide crit range not high multiplayer (the diffrence is not big (0,7 DMG per hit for swords against axes))

No

[Kinerd]

No

andbr22 is spot on.

Greatsword:
1: miss
2-16: base
17-18: 2 * base
19-20: 5 * base

total: 15 + 4 + 10 = 29 * base

Greataxe:
1: miss
2-18: base
19-20: 6 * base

total: 17 + 12 = 29 * base

If your base is the same (greensteel, no axe-specific enhancements), you'll do identical non-seeker damage and the greataxe will be very slightly behind on seeker damage.

Elemental burst is (multiplier - 1) * d10 * range, so we're comparing 1 * 4 to 2 * 2, which are equal.

Alignment burst is (multiplier + 2) * d6 * range, so we're comparing 4 * 4 to 5 * 2, so the greatsword is higher.

.

And if you're doing auto-crit, as andbr22 also said, the greataxe having a smaller range is irrelevant and the higher multiplier is all that matters.

[kernal42]

Also, the greataxe has a very slightly higher attack speed, maybe 2% hasted. See Vanshilar's attack speed index for details.

[Chad28]

I go for Greatsword unless I'm a Dwarf with axe enhancements. Yeah the axe has a higher multiplier, but the sword does higher base damage and gets a higher number of criticals. 10% instead of 5% chance for critical. Unless you have a party member throwing a bunch of hold spells, or whatever else to get you nearly constant auto crits, then I don't think the x3 is going to make up for not getting as many crits plus not doing as much damage on non critical hits.

If you're a Dwarf, axe. Anything else, sword.

[PopeJual]

I go for Greatsword unless I'm a Dwarf with axe enhancements. Yeah the axe has a higher multiplier, but the sword does higher base damage and gets a higher number of criticals. 10% instead of 5% chance for critical. Unless you have a party member throwing a bunch of hold spells, or whatever else to get you nearly constant auto crits, then I don't think the x3 is going to make up for not getting as many crits plus not doing as much damage on non critical hits.

If you're a Dwarf, axe. Anything else, sword.

If the part highlighted in red isn't happening for you frequently in high level content, then you're doing it wrong.

Also, if you're going to go with a Greatsword, then you might as well just switch to Falchion. 15-20/x2 is better than 17-20/x2.

[lord_of_rage]

If the part highlighted in red isn't happening for you frequently in high level content, then you're doing it wrong.

Also, if you're going to go with a Greatsword, then you might as well just switch to Falchion. 15-20/x2 is better than 17-20/x2.

agreed and with half orcs it looks like you are swinging a halfling

[Chad28]

Falchions don't do as much base damage. Heck, they don't even do as much base damage as axes, as far as I can remember.

I forget if dancing causes auto crits. A lot of parties I've been in do it, but in some missions not so much. It's common, but I don't see it done all the time every time.

[PopeJual]

Falchions don't do as much base damage. Heck, they don't even do as much base damage as axes, as far as I can remember.

I forget if dancing causes auto crits. A lot of parties I've been in do it, but in some missions not so much. It's common, but I don't see it done all the time every time.

Falchions don't do as much base damage, but if you're a Barbarian that can't more than make up for that smaller base damage with the extra critical hit range, then you need to reroll.

Greatsword does (3d6 + 5 + Strength, etc.) * 23 in 20 swings.

Falchion does (2d6 + 5 + Strength, etc) *25 in 20 swings.

As long as your Strength (and other) bonus to damage is (356.5 - 300)/25 = 2.26 or more, then the Falchion will do more damage to an enemy with 0% fortification.

As long as your Strength (and other) bonus to damage (325.5 - 264)/22 = 2.79 or more, then the Falchion will do more damage to an enemy with 50% fortification.

A Greatsword will do an average of 3.5 damage per swing against enemies that have 100% fortification. When that situation comes up, just get your Icy Burst Whatever of Greater Elemental Bane or Greater Construct Bane out of your pack and swing away. Or your Pos/Pos GS Maul if you're bashing on Skeletons.

Against the other 99% of enemies that you face, the Falchion is significantly better than the Greatsword in non-autocrit situations and the Greataxe is immensely better than the Greatsword in autocrit situations. The Greatsword is *slightly* better than the Falchion against enemies that are in an autocrit situation, but not enough to make it worthwhile to craft one.

[Chad28]

I'm not sure how a weapon with lower base power and critical percent could do more damage over time, even with a one point higher multiplier.

[Alabore]

I'm not sure how a weapon with lower base power and critical percent could do more damage over time, even with a one point higher multiplier.

Because DDO works differently from pnp DnD.
Roughly speaking: in pnp DnD, the crit multiplier simply told you how many extra dice you'd get to roll when critting.
In DDO, modifiers add up and that amount gets multiplied by the crit multiplier.

Took me a while to realise crit mechanics worked differently in DDO.
That is also why people swear by the khopesh: x3 multiplier means my 7th lvl ranger crits by about 70 when using one, while wielding a seeker dagger in her off-hand.
For comparative purposes, a greatsword in her hands crits for about 50-55.

[ganondalf]

agreed and with half orcs it looks like you are swinging a halfling

Hey, that gives me a great idea....

[PopeJual]

I'm not sure how a weapon with lower base power and critical percent could do more damage over time, even with a one point higher multiplier.

In 20 swings with a Greatsword, you will do your regular damage of 15.5 + Strength bonus, etc. 15 times and you will do double damage 4 times.

In 20 swings with a Falchion, you will do your regular damage of 12 + Strength bonus, etc. 13 times and you will do double damage 6 times.

Falchion has a base damage of 3.5 LESS than a Greatsword, but it crits two MORE times in 20 swings than a Greatsword does.


If your Strength bonus is big enough (e.g. if you're a Barbarian), then the two full hits worth of damage in 20 swings will more than make up for the 3.5 less damage per swing.



Think of it this way - would you rather have (15.5 + 40) * 23 or would you rather have (12 + 40 ) * 25?

[karnokvolrath]

Also, if you're going to go with a Greatsword, then you might as well just switch to Falchion. 15-20/x2 is better than 17-20/x2.

This.

My personal favorite is greataxe, because hold monster is the key to endgame nonraid bosses ATM.

Falchion isnt a bad option either, im not a math wiz but my feeling when using my falchion user is he "seems" to do more damage VRS non held trash. Again that just how it feels to me, the math may not add up.

3rd on my list would be greatsword, its only redeaming quality is the fact that if your specced to use greatsword you mold right into a Esos and instantly become better then the falchion and greataxe lit2's in NORMAL raid content.

[AylinIsAwesome]

There are only two slashing THF weapons anyone should ever use.

Falchion, since it's the best in non auto-crit situations, like all boss fights. It has the highest damage of any of them when you factor in the increased number of criticals.

Greataxe, for auto-crit situations, since 3x is the best a THF weapon can get.


Notice how I never mentioned "greatsword" in that...