Drow DM TWF Cleric: Gimp?

[FlyingTurtle]

Drow 28 pt Cleric 18 / Fighter 2

Str 15 (8) + 3 levelups
Dex 15 (5)
Con 12 (6)
Int 10 (0)
Wis 11 (3)
Cha 16 (6) + 2 levelups

Feat: 7 + 2 fighter
TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC:Pierce, PA
Maximize, Emp Heal, Quicken, Toughness

Enhancements: RS II, DM IV.

[Hobgoblin]

yes

[FlyingTurtle]

It's probably sad that I don't even have to ask you to elaborate.

Ah well, probably works much better as a paladin.

[bryanmeerkat]

It's probably sad that I don't even have to ask you to elaborate.

Ah well, probably works much better as a paladin.

Well if you dont have monk , and you dont have 32 point builds then this is quite good for a
Melee Cleric .

Otherwise Id suggest helf( +5 saves or +3d6 sneak ) or human (khopesh)

with an extra feat for 1/2/17 fighter/monk/cleric you can take either extend or heighten (or khopesh for helf )

[unbongwah]

I take it the idea is a battle cleric who uses DM to boost their DPS? Not a terrible idea, IMHO, but one which is quite MAD. Also, your DMs would compete with your auras / bursts for TUs; not sure you'd regen them fast enough to power both. BTW, you can't take DM IV; that's only available at paladin / cleric lvl 20.

[FlyingTurtle]

Doh on DMIV. Well I guess all level ups in Strength then.

Well if you dont have monk , and you dont have 32 point builds then this is quite good for a Melee Cleric .

Yeah that's the idea. The fact that both Con and Wis are in the garbage (the two stats that I pump to the MAX on my offensive caster cleric) makes me uncertain about effectiveness.

Also, what unbongwah said about DM competing with bursts.

Leader: "Dude where's the hjeals?"
gimpDrow236: "Sorry, I used them all up on DPS - wait 2 mins pls"
Leader: "Omigod I hate battle clerics u all sux"
[Party] *gimpDrow236 has been booted from the party*

Something like this might work better with a TR 34/36 pointer and/or on a different race, as Bryan pointed out.

Converting it to a Paladin eliminates a lot of the problems (multistat dependency, HP, competition for TU, access to DMIV); which is probably best for a 28-pointer.

[bryanmeerkat]

Converting it to a Paladin eliminates a lot of the problems (multistat dependency, HP, competition for TU, access to DMIV); which is probably best for a 28-pointer.

The main bonus being a paladin would bring to the build over cleric is people wont be expecting you to drag there ass out of the fire .

With your charisma that high with +6 charisma item you should be rocking a fairly good amount of turns , and if you just keep your aura up and run with the melees you should be to heal a lot of content without using bursts /heal spells as long as everyone is reasonably buffed and be able to pump your strength up fairly frequently with DM in a lot of quests with fairly well stocked shrines .

Erring on the side of caution in quests you dont know , but if you have a good feel for the quest you can have an idea of when you can pump your strength and still get the group to the next shrine/ end of quest . It should hopefully speed up the process of getting to the next shrine too

With only 15 dex you ll need a +2 dex tome for itwf and gtwf also . If you have funds for this maybe also concider getting a +2 charisma tome (this will count towards dm3) and free up build points for some more strength . +2 Strength , wisdom and con are obviously desirable also but obviously not essential for the build .

[FlyingTurtle]

Here's an idea... Drow get rapier proficiencies free. So, drop the 2 fighter levels, and ditch Maximize and, err... Toughness (since we'll be losing the +10 fighter HPs anyway). And we lose the fighter haste boost and +1 STR.

This opens up the DMIV and the Cleric capstone, as well as the full mana bar for hjeals. Better? Or still gimp.

[Chette]

Here's an idea... Drow get rapier proficiencies free. So, drop the 2 fighter levels, and ditch Maximize and, err... Toughness (since we'll be losing the +10 fighter HPs anyway). And we lose the fighter haste boost and +1 STR.

This opens up the DMIV and the Cleric capstone, as well as the full mana bar for hjeals. Better? Or still gimp.

A 12 con cleric without toughness is not going to stand toe to toe with much in end game.

Do you have 32 point builds for human or are you stuck with drow?

[FlyingTurtle]

A 12 con cleric without toughness is not going to stand toe to toe with much in end game.

Do you have 32 point builds for human or are you stuck with drow?

As a conceptual exercise, suppose I do have 32pts human (I don't). What's different? Rapiers->Khopesh; +1 Str +1 Con enh; +2 Con Racial Toughness 3. That's it right?

Lessee

Human 32pt 20 Cleric
Str 14 (6) + 3 levelups
Dex 15 (8)
Con 14 (6)
Int 8
Wis 10 (2)
Cha 16 (10) + 2 Levelups

Feats: 8 human
TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC:Slash, Khopesh, PA
Emp Heal, Quicken

Not really much better, no? I guess we can drop IC:slash or PA for Toughness, which buys us 52 HP.

[Chette]

As a conceptual exercise, suppose I do have 32pts human (I don't). What's different? Rapiers->Khopesh; +1 Str +1 Con enh; +2 Con Racial Toughness 3. That's it right?

That's pretty huge, Potentially 2 con brackets and a 3rd toughness enhancement is 30-50 hit points. Human versatility can also give you +4 damage boost.

Devine might IV is certainly nice, but I don't think it can compare with 2 extra feats from a fighter or monk splash. It's certainly not worth dropping either power attack, toughness or improved critical for. I'd go pure on a favoured soul, but not on a cleric.

[unbongwah]

Losing two feats is a bigger hit to your build than losing DM IV & cleric capstone, IMHO. And chasing after DM IV when most TWF pallies are lucky if they can squeeze it in? And they dump-stat WIS because of their MAD; your build has it even worse.

If this were a twice-TR 32-pt drow with a ton of plat & gear sitting in the bank waiting for it, you could probably overcome its dependencies (or maybe not). But it sounds like you're trying to do it on the cheap and I'm not sure that flies.

Fundamentally, what do you see this char's role in a party?

[bryanmeerkat]

If I was building on a 32 point build human

prop have

str 16+3 level
dex 15+2 tome
con 14
int 8
wis 10
cha 14+2 tome +2 level up


Khopesh ,TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC:slash, PA
Maximize, Emp Heal, Quicken, Toughness

dm3 and radiant servant .

a bit more flash if you want something other than concentration get +2 tomes for int and wisdom and switch int to 10 and wisdom to 8 starting . prob for UMD and a few points in jump or balance .

Building for tWF melee cleric is similiar to paladin in that its very stat intensive and you need to build it similair to a paladin . It is an area where drow are viable as an option but still not as good as human .

It will be less good dps than a a paladin obviously but able to heal raids without issue .

[unbongwah]

This might be as gimp if not worse than your original idea , but what about something which is more melee and less cleric?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(6 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 12 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 279
Spell Points: 590 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 18
Will: 22

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    21
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             16                    18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality (swap for Power Attack at higher lvls)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack II
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I

Gives up DM III, but gains KotC I, Smite Evil, and Divine Sacrifice, which more than makes up for it IMHO. Obviously it gives up higher lvl cleric spells for the extra DPS & saves from pally 6.