Assassin/spy build

[Adken]

Hi guys;

Recently i got a True Heart of Wood, so i'm planning to TR my rogue in Rogue13/monk7, assassin/spy. This is the build i have done so far. I have some experience with rogues, so i guess i have done it well, but i have doubts with the monk part. Please check my build and let me know any suggesting. (By the way, i am considering to exchange the enhancement Rogue Dexterity III at lvl 20 for Rogue Haste Boost and some other enhancement).

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Redcliff  The Sneaky
Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(7 Monk \ 13 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 246
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 20
Will: 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    13
Dexterity            16                    22
Constitution         14                    15
Intelligence         14                    15
Wisdom               16                    24
Charisma              8                     9

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    12
Bluff                -1                     5
Concentration         2                    25
Diplomacy             3                    23
Disable Device        6                    26
Haggle                0                     1
Heal                  3                     8
Hide                  6                    29
Intimidate           -1                     0
Jump                  3                     8
Listen                5                    12
Move Silently         7                    29
Open Lock             7                    27
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    26
Spot                  7                    31
Swim                  1                     2
Tumble                5                    11
Use Magic Device      3                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Hide II


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I


Level 10 (Monk)
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+4)
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Sneak of Shadows
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Adept of Wind


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III

[Puppetian]

You know, I'm looking at this build and can't really see why you're wasting level ups on WIS, since there's absolutely no point in getting it above 8 here - you don't have any DC based abilities, and even if you had, having only 7 monk levels will leave the DC in the rock-bottom regions. You'll be much better off boosting DEX or STR.
Another thing, why exactly are you taking monk levels here? For the stance and ninja-spy blur thingie? If so I'm quite certain you'll be much better off simply grabbing Assasin III and 2 levels of monk for the extra feats.

This may sound harsh, but I'm strongly feeling that wasting a second life on this build would be painful mistake.

[Kinerd]

I'm making a few guesses here:

I'm guessing you want to have good AC with this build, hence the level-ups into Wisdom, Dodge feat, being halfling. I'm not sure you will get a lot out of use from it, though, because your offense very strongly relies on not having aggro.

I'm guessing you want to fight centered, but IC: Slash makes me guess you are going to be using kamas. Kamas are really bad - they are 1d6 to your 1d8 fists, are slower, and do not get full Strength bonus to off-hand damage. The only reason to use them on a centered-fighting build is for vorpalling, and IC doesn't help that.

I would rather have Improved Evasion than Crippling Strike, but that's more of a personal thing, ymmv.

You may have more fun with krogyy's Black Lotus build. It's 19/1, which will probably be easier to manage on a TR - you probably don't want to wait until level 19 to start assassinating things.

[RobinofSpiritwood]

The goal of multiclassing is to be able to do something that can't be done with just one class. I'm really not clear why the monk is in this build at all.

Ninja Spy gives you free Shortswords as ki weapons, which works fine with Assassins. They aren't fantastic, but why aren't they being used with IC:Pierce?

Dark Path builds give you 2 abilities to deliver sneak attacks whilst holding aggro: Falling Star Strike finisher, and Unbalancing Ki strike. Obviously, with Assassin/Halfling build, you WANT to deliver sneak attacks. So, why ignore Unbalancing Ki strike, which is FAR easier to use and gives -2 AC to the enemy as a bonus?

Rogue permits a decent weapon- the Shortbow- which is free, and can combine both arrow effects with weapon effects. So you can get things like Holy of Puncturing with Cold Iron +3. You could be using that stuff, but instead choose to expend AP on Ten Thousand Stars, to gain a short lived shooting boost to the worst ranged weapon in the game. Why is that? Ninja flavor?

At level 9, Dark path Monks gain Touch of Death. Not seen in this approach, as Assassinate 2 ability is taken instead requiring at least 12 Rogue. Arguably, ToD is superior- but that depends on playstyle and it's subjective.

The use of a high Wisdom is one thing that seems to make sense- Better DC's on Stunning Fist for instance.
But you don't have that (extremely useful) feat selected. Stun gives you Autocrit, and stops all incoming harm from the monster, making it a central weapon in Monk arsenals.

You could get a Wis of 16 + 6 Item + 3 exceptional +2 Tome +2 Monk Feat, for a total of 29 +1 Boat buff for 30. That's a Stat bonus of +10. Your stun would have the DC: 10 base + 10 Stun item + 10 Stat bonus + 3 Monk Level bonus = 33. Potentially even more if you use Wiz stance to fire selected stuns.
This is Passably good enough for it to work quite a lot. Hit things with Improved Cursespewing + Fists of Darkness, and debuff the save for highly reliable stunning. This calculation also applied to the DC of things like Finishers and Unbalancing Ki strike.

[Adken]

After all your suggestings i've been considering it...

The first thing to say is i put there the wrong IC, the idea was to fight with shortswords, and that's piercing.

The main reason i chose monk as multiclass was for the falling star strike (blind then sneak attack even with aggro). After some math i realize the DC of that attack would be around 30, and that's not to high for high level quests. The high wisdom was for the AC and the DC for the falling strike.

An advantage of the 6 monk levels for the dps would be the air stance, but i'm not sure if that stacks with haste boost and haste. Oh, and the 10k star was to have at least something for a ranged attack and don't become uncentered.

Well, i'm considering more to build a pure rogue, str build, stunning blow, heavy pick user and such, but i would appreciate any additional suggesting about the assassin/spy build. I haven't made the choice yet.

[solacerodgers]

I can appreciate the build but it would be more of a toy than a good end game toon. The strikes would land maybe 1 out of 50 at that low of a dc and with no auto crit figured in the mix you have no way of quickly dps-ing down anything you do aggro with out SA. Any type of radiance guard would be 100 times better be it on SS DT's or GS items over the falling strike. As for your question about haste and wind stance from my long time use as a UWS monk it only adds 5% not the full 15% of you would be off the charts but you wont be able to get to UWS with that build to see how effective it is. Fun look but please dont waste a TR on this. - Keep us posted


** side note also if you do go this way figure out a way to get auto crits into the mix somehow, like it was mentioned earlier stunning fist is a monks best friend and the best way to live longer when things are charging down on you because you just popped it with a falling star strike that dint land

[Puppetian]

Adept of Air does stack with haste boosts, but doesn't with haste/collar. On top of that it provides 5% doublestrike.

As for the build, the main problem with it lies with missing out one of the best features each of the class can provide - in case of rogue - efficient assasinates and free vorpals, in case of monk - touch of death. While I understand this would be largely a flavour build, I'm feeling it would bring you more grief than fun. In my view of things, you should try to focus on one class by either bringing the rogue levels to 18, or by taking at least 9 levels of monk for ToD. Do bear in mind however, that ToD doesn't work with any weapons other than wraps equipped.

And I completely agree with solacerodgers about the radiance weapons/guard - it's far superior to falling star strike. While you could pump your WIS to 30, giving you an efficient dc of 40 on it, I'm pretty sure it's not worth to build a whole toon around a strike that can be efficiently replaced by a radiance item.

[Kinerd]

An advantage of the 6 monk levels for the dps would be the air stance, but i'm not sure if that stacks with haste boost and haste.

As others have said, the bonus to attack speed is the same type as Haste (enhancement) and would not stack. (Haste Boost stacks with your highest enhancement bonus.) You would continue to benefit from the bonus to double-strike, but mathematically you're better off with Wind Stance I (level 1 monk) and 19 levels of sneak-attack dice than Wind Stance II (level 6) and 13/14 levels of sneak-attack dice. Please note that this factors in Ninja Spy and higher fist damage.