why does 5 feats in bow do less dps than 0 in melee?

[kernal42]

Rangers should have to choose whether their going to be melee or Ranged rangers and only get the feats related to that because when a ranged feat makes a melee toon better there's a problem....actually IIRC that's how it works in PnP (but i haven't played 3.5 in over a decade so yeah)

Your'e right that P&P works this way; you're wrong (IMO) that DDO should work this way.

The only appealing aspect of playing a ranger is to have the ability to use both archery and TWF effectively.

-Kernal

[Grifarr]

I also have a Tempest ranger that uses many shot when it is up. Using a potent class ability is hardly what I would call abusing it. Bottom line is when you compare damage on the two you see what you would expect. The Tempest does more damage at melee than the AA but less at range. Each is more effective at thier specialized damage type but also capable at thier secondary type.

Does any class beat the AA at physical ranged damage? No. Is there some trade off to being able to kill or at least heavily damage mobs at range before they close and melee with you? Yes, otherwise it would be overpowering.

That said I am a firm believer that manyshot should be a stance that is only useable when you are standing still rather than an ability with a cool down. I think the OP really needs to weigh in a few more factors or perhaps qualify the subject statement by focussing on a level range because as it as it stands I strongly disagree with the OP's statement in the current state of the game overall. The OP doesn't take into account that certainly when a mob is toe-to-toe with a level 6 AA you the listed melee weapons do outdamage the bow but the benefits of the AA start to show when you consider the following:

- the OP states 5 feats but the prereqs are Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus: Ranged (which means you will hit more than the melee without it thereby doing more damage) and one of the class specific feats or enhancement that gives more SP
- other feats that may fall into the 5 the OP didn't define such as improved crit: ranged, greater weapon focus and weapon specializations will also all translate into more hits or damage than an unspecced person using the same weapon
- never ending ammo supply
- damage done to mobs as they close on you will always be greater than a melee with a comparable bow
- mobs you simply cant get to with melee
- added damage from imbued arrows
- easier to obtain effective DR bypass with bows and Denieth arrows makes life a little less costly for the AA
- none of this precludes you from being able to swap in a melee weapon and be fairly effiecient with it when the need arrises

[kernal42]

There are two ways to play the ranger: Melee or AA.

The melee uses TWF, and pulls out a bow to manyshot when it's active.
The AA uses a bow with manyshot, and pulls out some swords to melee when it's on timer.

-Kernal

[PopeJual]

I spend 5 feats to get all the archer feats, (minus shot on the run, because it needs 3 feats to get it (Ridicules)) And still, I equip any melee weapon I am proficient with, with no feats whatsoever to help specialize said weapon. And I do more dps with it than with my bows. Exactly the same type weapons, tried it with a holy bow, a holy quarterstaff, a holy rapier, a holy mace. All of which did more dps than the bow. That is horrible.

I know it's been said that bow is being looked at and will get fixed this year.. But can we please get it fixed soon? The rate of fire is just painful to play with. I remember when it wasn't broken. Years ago.. Actually I remember patch day when it got broken freaking out at how horrible it messed up my archer..
Can it really be so hard to fix? For you guys and us, I hope not.

I do think that range attacks need to be improved in DDO. It makes a lot of sense that it should be somewhat less powerful than melee, however.

If you could do as much single target damage per second with ranged attacks as you can with melee, then there would be no reason to pick up a sword ever. People would just shoot at point blank range with a bow when enemies got too close.

Also, melee combat carries more risk and consumes more resources than ranged attacks because melee combat means that your opponents can swing back at you with their slashing and bashing toys as well.


Now, it's entirely possible to just give ranged weapons to all of the enemies in DDO and to make melee weapons completely obsolete. That worked out very well for Battleground Europe and similar games, but I don't think that we want to go that direction with DDO.

[Emili]

I use bows on my rangers all the time... and they're tempest.

RoF is bout 60% of RoA for a reason... while it could probably be increased a little to maybe 65-70% the break point of 75% would most likely yield no need for melee weapons at all.

[Failedlegend]

If you could do as much single target damage per second with ranged attacks as you can with melee, then there would be no reason to pick up a sword ever. People would just shoot at point blank range with a bow when enemies got too close.

Also, melee combat carries more risk and consumes more resources than ranged attacks because melee combat means that your opponents can swing back at you with their slashing and bashing toys as well.

SO than all offensive casters should be removed as well....at least according to the above statement

[SteeleTrueheart]

why does 5 feats in bow do less dps than 0 in melee?

Kiting and Perching is why.

[PopeJual]

SO than all offensive casters should be removed as well....at least according to the above statement

Offensive casters have the limitation that they can run out of spell points while melee types can't run out of swings.

Burst damage vs. sustained damage.

[Shade]

I know it's been said that bow is being looked at and will get fixed this year.. But can we please get it fixed soon? .

Your source of information needs some checking..

As thats false. Archery is working as intended now and turbine has not announced any plans to improve it any time soon.

Related issue you may be confusing: Repeating Crossbows are suffering some problems missing shots, and thats slated to be fixed sometime soonish.

Archery is lower dps because kiting and completley avoiding all damage with ranged attack is easy to do in DDO, and would be vastly overpowered if it did the same or even near the damage of melee.

Turbine failed incredibly on their first mmo - asherons call in doing this.. Archers did MORE dmg then melee and could kite mobs resulting in faster leveling and better loot for them, almost no one played a melee in that game, was a massive mistake.

But yea this topic has exited since DDO was first launched 5 years ago, its not going to change.

[Glenalth]

I'm not aware of anything saying it will be "fixed".

Eladrin has stated that there will be a "final ranged pass" at some point. Whatever that ends up being...

[Failedlegend]

Heh if ranged users were half as bad-ass as the Demon Hunter (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/bl...blo-iii/706569) we'd be fighting with the best of them.

Note: I don't expect ranged to have equal DPS as melee just give it something to level the playing field because right now we do about 60% what melees do with twice as many feats and with far more obstacles.

For example his a list from the rogue forums for ideas to improve the mechanic line...similar things could be done to improve ranged in general (mind you it would be less restricted as it wouldn't be chained to a theme)

Aside from the construct stuff and the call for a small RoF/Reload speed increase (ie. 3%,6%,10%) they avoid affecting DPS

Note: #5 is meant to be a catch-all for generic (non-unique) bonuses not necessarily the example given


1. Traps need to actually pose a viable threat as opposed to a minor inconvenience

2. We need a reliable way to supply ourselves with ammo...possibly using trap parts...make unique bolts like web bolts (Should probably BtC)

3. Trap Parts need to be more Readily available (In-Game) & Trapmaking in general needs an overhaul.

4. We need to keep the construct theme but actually make it useful (ie. Make it so all our weapons are construct/living construct bane...each tier gets better)

5. We need need some other minor bonuses to round out the pre (on top of the trap stuff) ie. +1 to crit range, to-hit bonuses, etc.

6. Ranged SA needs to either be fixed (30ft currently = roughly the length of a prone WF) or lengthened so the broken calculation/coding puts out 30

7. Fix enhancements, equipment,etc. to actually work with ranged especially aggro reducers (frankly ranged should naturally cause less hate generation)

8. Fix bugs, disappearing shots, haste not working right,etc.

9. Raise DCs so ONLY mechs can handle elite content (possibly replace the repair boost with a UMD boost)

10. Increase clip size for repeaters to 5~8ish (maybe Tier 1 = 4 Bolts, Tier 2 = 6 Bolts, Tier 3 = 7 or 8 Bolts)

11. Possibly gain some Construct bonuses (or for WF Mechs make it additive so instead of a base +25% make it +50% and instead of being immune to poison make him actually regen hp from it or something)

12. A Base Speed increase to reload and/or firing speed with each tier

13. Int to AC (similar to monk wis to AC except with need to hold a ranged weapon)

14. Mechanics can sneak/crit constructs, ignoring part or all of fortification.

15. Reduce the search and disarm time on traps at each tier of Mechanic. Make search/disarm instant for Tier III.

16. Be able to save against traps on a 1 (IOW no critical fail)

17. DR against ranged weapons (bow,xbow,thrown daggers,etc.)

[QuantumFX]

Your source of information needs some checking..

You First

You are correct, double strike at this time does not apply to ranged or thrown attacks. We are planning on investigating various improvements to ranged combat in a future update.

And, no, crossbows are not mentioned in the entire post.

[Failedlegend]

You First



And, no, crossbows are not mentioned in the entire post.

+1 for an awesome signature...oh and for getting proof too :P