Do I have to do LESS damage?

[Postumus]

I recently started a new Human Sorcerer character. I had tried a couple of Wizzies early on, but this is my first real arcane character, and he is currently at level 11.


More and more I am having a terrible time avoiding aggro. I'll toss down a maxed+empowered firewall and monsters will sprint past the melees to thank me up close and personal.


It's to the point where I won't drop FWs until after the melees have taken a bit of a beating, and lately I'm reluctant to drop a maxed firewall on anything that isn't half dead already. I've had PUG leaders instruct me to lay down FWs to prepare for the boss battle, but I have to refuse since the melees can't contain the boss who is doing everything he can to tear my throat out. Even if I turn invis after laying down a maxed+empowered+extended FW, the boss seems to sniff me out.


Is it me? Is it the melees? (I've noticed good melee/dps types can keep the boss contained or at least interested).


I've got 30% hate reduction so far, but I can't tell if it has made any difference at all. I have about 180 hps so far, and always run with stoneskin and blur (and I've started to chew through invis scrolls as well), but when every critter on the screen is out for my blood it wouldn't matter if I had 400 hps.


Do I have to take my foot off the gas and do less damage to stay alive? That seems to be the most effective strategy - doing less damage and picking my spots, but I also feel like I'm piking b/c I've got all this awesome DPS I could be dishing out, but I have to hold it back. It's frustrating.


Any play tips so I can realize my full potential and blast away?

[Anneliese]

On nearly everything firewall works on, its usually enough to play human flummi.


Stoneskin, Displacement, Rage, Haste - and Jump. Most stuff has serious trouble hitting you if you run around like a madman and jump while doing it. You can even keep all the mobs in your firewall while doing so.

[cedad]

Be sure to have Jump and Haste... and just kite things in your FW !

[Aurora1979]

do the damage and ride the pain.

You will probably flame me for giving you bad advice again but ive played a few arcanes now and ive never been able to full avoid agro.

Not every encounter obviously but square room, 10 gnoll sargents rushing your team, you drop a firewall and run round the edge of it.

Blur, displacment and stoneskin along with any healing you can muster will help to ease the pain.

with bosses its a bit different and you just wana try and either pace the damage you deal to aviod spam casting and pulling agro. OR.... spam cast the heck out of it and destroy all who oppose you....

[Postumus]

do the damage and ride the pain.

You will probably flame me for giving you bad advice again but ive played a few arcanes now and ive never been able to full avoid agro.

Not every encounter obviously but square room, 10 gnoll sargents rushing your team, you drop a firewall and run round the edge of it.

Blur, displacment and stoneskin along with any healing you can muster will help to ease the pain.

with bosses its a bit different and you just wana try and either pace the damage you deal to aviod spam casting and pulling agro. OR.... spam cast the heck out of it and destroy all who oppose you....

Not only will I not flame you (or fire wall you), but I almost want to steal your first sentence as a sig. It's definitely going into my Sorc's bio!

Do the damage and ride the pain!

Love it.


Seriously though, thanks Aurora (and everyone else) for the advice!

[Aurora1979]

Your welcome

Apologies for the mis info about blur though, genuinly thought they worked together..... ill probably still buff both though... habits too old and if i dont displace will run out and i wont refresh it

Seems cleared up now though. happy arcaning.

[erikbozelie]

aggro is nice, make friends with it!

everytime you dont have aggro its beating on some poor melee. just kite them through your terror webs, fire walls, and other nasty stuff to drop down onto the floor with an good duriation.

haste + jump is an nice way to avoid damage.

[SlogUK]

Yep. In agreement here. If the melees can't block the door for you, bouncybouncybouncy. Displace ss jump haste rage and boing boing boing. After a while you get very good at jumping in a pattern through the wall as they burn behind you. Diplo is your friend too, and high chr makes it possible.

[PopeJual]

Once upon a time, I tried to avoid aggro. Now I sprint ahead of squishy carbon based lifeforms when I'm playing with my Wizard so that I can make sure that I get as much aggro as possible.

If one of the meatsacks in the party wants to take individual mobs off of me, that's fine, but they'll have to pry the aggro off of me with their pointed sticks instead of just getting it for free.

In a PUG, when I have aggro, I know that everyone in the party will survive the fight. When one of the Big Dumb Fighters(tm) has Aggro, I am not 100% sure of the same.

Also, if I have most of the aggro, it means I can cast Displacement on just myself instead of having to waste my spell points on all of those disgusting flesh creatures.


(N.B. this does not apply to Red or Orange names or in Amrath)

[Emili]

(N.B. this does not apply to Red or Orange names or in Amrath)

Oh? Yes it does we're going to send every red/oraged named in every raid and epic your way. Word is out and every Barb, Fighter and Pally is TR'n and respec'n skills to max diplo.

[Cam_Neely]

In many situations, FW is the best CC in the game.

Learn it, know it, embrace it!


Burn baby

[Sholia]

I know the conversation has already moved on but I'm still not convinced that Blur and Displacement aren't rolled separately. No, they don't stack, so their bonuses don't add to 70%, but I'm sure that I've seen Blur procs while I've been displaced, which can only happen if it is checked after the Displacement fails. If it was only checking on the most powerful, I would never see a Blur proc while displaced since it is the weaker of the two and would be superseded by the other.

I know I've read that if one doesn't activate, the other might, but now I'm going to have to test it to make sure I actually am seeing those Blurs popping up when Displacement is active. Is there any other reason why both would be activating while they are up together, if not because they are being rolled separately?

[SimCat]

Too many pages to read all through all of it. I did browse though.

I make sure I'm running with a full compliment of buffs and if you're a fleshbag you might want to scroll/wand/pot heal yourself as you're kiting cuz you're gonna get hit. If you're a WF you can easily heal thyself whilst kiting.

I tend to jump back and forth and make the mobs stay in the FW as much as possible. OR I Shield block and keep the mobs in the FW until they expire in a most grisly manner. Once you get the proper gear this is even a better way to do it. With my torc and con opp item I rarely kite unless it's a big boss anymore and I just weapon block.

If you're gonna grab aggro you could make sure your wearing some guards so if you do get hit at least you're killin them quicker.

If I have a good enough area I tend to kite while running backwards and jump casting additional spells if needed. ?But I also try to make sure I kite the mobs back into melee. Runnin with an intim melee is always helpful in this fashion.

[sephiroth1084]

If you're having a big problem, there are a few solutions:
-Change to crowd control over nuking/firewalling.
-Learn to deal with the aggro effectively either by kiting or shield blocking.
-Group with better melees.

In any case, I'd drop the Subtle Spellcasting line.

[Four20]

I have never had an issue with web and firewall. . .and I used this tactic even at lvl 20 today.

I can do either way. Cast a Web, and put a FW on top of it. Or cast a FW and put a Web in it. Either way it doesn't burn the web away.

However, a Fireball, will 'blow away' or 'burn up' a web. . .even one cast by your teammate. The same thing happens with flamestrike(the big nuke type spell that can burn up grease?) and web. it will just burn it up.

But again, NEVER had an issue with web and firewall specifically(even in conjunction with a teammates' web/firewall)

[sephiroth1084]

I have never had an issue with web and firewall. . .and I used this tactic even at lvl 20 today.

I can do either way. Cast a Web, and put a FW on top of it. Or cast a FW and put a Web in it. Either way it doesn't burn the web away.

However, a Fireball, will 'blow away' or 'burn up' a web. . .even one cast by your teammate. The same thing happens with flamestrike(the big nuke type spell that can burn up grease?) and web. it will just burn it up.

But again, NEVER had an issue with web and firewall specifically(even in conjunction with a teammates' web/firewall)

This is kind of new. For a long time firewall would burn away Web unless you placed them just right. You couldn't place a firewall right on top of a Web previously. I don't know when this changed, but it's always felt kind of cheesy, and I still find myself placing the two the way I used to most of the time anyway.

[Postumus]

If you're having a big problem, there are a few solutions:
-Change to crowd control over nuking/firewalling.
-Learn to deal with the aggro effectively either by kiting or shield blocking.
-Group with better melees.

In any case, I'd drop the Subtle Spellcasting line.

I dropped the subtle spellcasting altogether.


I'm getting better at kiting, the jump/blur/stoneskin combo helps immeasurably, now that I'm 13th level, I'm going to swap out prot from element for displacement.


It makes combat a lot easier for me to expect to get the aggro and learn how to control it rather than hoping the melees can grab it and maintain it. Obviously it's situational, but having the confidence to just take the aggro and ride it out when the melees can't do enough damage has improved my survivability and success rate immensely.


I also don't just rely on firewall. With acid blast, chain lightning, and cone of cold I can burn 'em and nuke 'em dead.


I obtained a shield of reflection, and when my SPs get low, or I know I'm going to take multiple hits in an enclosed area, I equip it with the wand of blasting (or fireballs or whatever I have atm) and sit in the firewall shield blocking and blasting. That shield has saved my skin many times over now - if nothing else, by buying me the time to drink some heal pots if running with a overwhelmed, clueless, or dead cleric.


I can't thank all of you enough for the great advice. It has made playing this class so much more fun!

[Kmnh]

At that level, if you're wearing the chronoscope set and using superior freeze/spark clickies or potions, your cones of cold / ball lightnings should be one-shotting most mobs on normal quests, and two-shotting on hard. Don't be a firewall one-trick pony. Dead mobs don't aggro

[Kinerd]

Don't bother with hate reduction enhancements. Learning how to kite now is a very good idea. As others have said, all you have to do is run in circles and you should be fine. The real trick is learning when to stand still, block, and take some licks so the melees in your group can join in on the beating. At level 11 you should have heavy fortification, or expect to get it very soon, so now is as good a time as any to start experimenting.

Literally keeping a boss from moving is usually hard to do without 4 or 5 people, not because of player skill level but simple geometry. Most bosses move in all directions, and player characters are only about big enough to block 70-90 degrees at a time. If you were running VoN 3 and having this problem, then yes, blame it on the melees, but most of the time there's nothing they can do about it.

[Postumus]

Don't bother with hate reduction enhancements. Learning how to kite now is a very good idea. As others have said, all you have to do is run in circles and you should be fine. The real trick is learning when to stand still, block, and take some licks so the melees in your group can join in on the beating. At level 11 you should have heavy fortification, or expect to get it very soon, so now is as good a time as any to start experimenting.

Literally keeping a boss from moving is usually hard to do without 4 or 5 people, not because of player skill level but simple geometry. Most bosses move in all directions, and player characters are only about big enough to block 70-90 degrees at a time. If you were running VoN 3 and having this problem, then yes, blame it on the melees, but most of the time there's nothing they can do about it.

So dump the hate reduction lines? I'm down with that since they don't seem to do much for me.

I've got heavy fort robes, deathblock robes, and fearsome robes. I generally swap back and forth from improved false life robes to fearsome. The fearsome annoys some folks, but they seem to keep me alive fairly well. And I do spam diplo when possible (which makes me think a half-elf sorc might have its advantages).


I'm going to swap a first level spell for jump today.


Speaking of spells, I've got the following:


1st: master's touch (soon to be jump), hypno, acid spray, shield

2nd: glitterdust, web, blur, knock

3rd: acid blast, frost lance, haste, prot from energy

4th: ice storm, wall of fire, phatasmal killer

5th: hold monster, ball lightning

With Acid/lighting and fire/ice enhancement lines maxed out.


Wearing the Wrath of Sora Kell set and Shaman set from Red Fens.