Do I have to do LESS damage?

[Postumus]

I recently started a new Human Sorcerer character. I had tried a couple of Wizzies early on, but this is my first real arcane character, and he is currently at level 11.


More and more I am having a terrible time avoiding aggro. I'll toss down a maxed+empowered firewall and monsters will sprint past the melees to thank me up close and personal.


It's to the point where I won't drop FWs until after the melees have taken a bit of a beating, and lately I'm reluctant to drop a maxed firewall on anything that isn't half dead already. I've had PUG leaders instruct me to lay down FWs to prepare for the boss battle, but I have to refuse since the melees can't contain the boss who is doing everything he can to tear my throat out. Even if I turn invis after laying down a maxed+empowered+extended FW, the boss seems to sniff me out.


Is it me? Is it the melees? (I've noticed good melee/dps types can keep the boss contained or at least interested).


I've got 30% hate reduction so far, but I can't tell if it has made any difference at all. I have about 180 hps so far, and always run with stoneskin and blur (and I've started to chew through invis scrolls as well), but when every critter on the screen is out for my blood it wouldn't matter if I had 400 hps.


Do I have to take my foot off the gas and do less damage to stay alive? That seems to be the most effective strategy - doing less damage and picking my spots, but I also feel like I'm piking b/c I've got all this awesome DPS I could be dishing out, but I have to hold it back. It's frustrating.


Any play tips so I can realize my full potential and blast away?

[Anneliese]

On nearly everything firewall works on, its usually enough to play human flummi.


Stoneskin, Displacement, Rage, Haste - and Jump. Most stuff has serious trouble hitting you if you run around like a madman and jump while doing it. You can even keep all the mobs in your firewall while doing so.

[cedad]

Be sure to have Jump and Haste... and just kite things in your FW !

[Aurora1979]

do the damage and ride the pain.

You will probably flame me for giving you bad advice again but ive played a few arcanes now and ive never been able to full avoid agro.

Not every encounter obviously but square room, 10 gnoll sargents rushing your team, you drop a firewall and run round the edge of it.

Blur, displacment and stoneskin along with any healing you can muster will help to ease the pain.

with bosses its a bit different and you just wana try and either pace the damage you deal to aviod spam casting and pulling agro. OR.... spam cast the heck out of it and destroy all who oppose you....

[Kmnh]

At that level, if you're wearing the chronoscope set and using superior freeze/spark clickies or potions, your cones of cold / ball lightnings should be one-shotting most mobs on normal quests, and two-shotting on hard. Don't be a firewall one-trick pony. Dead mobs don't aggro

[Hobgoblin]

I've got 30% hate reduction so far, but I can't tell if it has made any difference at all. I have about 180 hps so far, and always run with stoneskin and blur (and I've started to chew through invis scrolls as well), but when every critter on the screen is out for my blood it wouldn't matter if I had 400 hps.

the hate reduction metas dont do squat for you. what did you start you con at? do you have your best con item you can on?

as far as tactics go, there are some things that will help.
1. jump spell- works wonders
2. displacement - like blur, but much better stoneskin + displacement = sorc ac even in epics to an extent
3. Crowd control. ya nuking the whole place from orbit is an option, but it can really keep you alive cast firewall everything chases you, you toss down a web and meeles pick them out of the web. can turn 10 guys chasing you into 2 to 4
4. get a tower shield. cast fire wall. shield block. laugh. Note that this works but either need a dedicated healer or the ability to heal yourself - wf recon, heal scrolls, etc

hope that helps

hob

[Aurora1979]

the hate reduction metas dont do squat for you. what did you start you con at? do you have your best con item you can on?

2. displacement - like blur, but much better stoneskin + displacement = sorc ac even in epics to an extent

hob

why not blur + displacemnt + stoneskin?

[Kinerd]

Don't bother with hate reduction enhancements. Learning how to kite now is a very good idea. As others have said, all you have to do is run in circles and you should be fine. The real trick is learning when to stand still, block, and take some licks so the melees in your group can join in on the beating. At level 11 you should have heavy fortification, or expect to get it very soon, so now is as good a time as any to start experimenting.

Literally keeping a boss from moving is usually hard to do without 4 or 5 people, not because of player skill level but simple geometry. Most bosses move in all directions, and player characters are only about big enough to block 70-90 degrees at a time. If you were running VoN 3 and having this problem, then yes, blame it on the melees, but most of the time there's nothing they can do about it.

[QuantumFX]

1. Hunt down a Shield of Reflection from the optional chest in Diplomatic Impunity.
2. Be first into a room.
3. Drag mobs over to a corner.
4. Lay down a Max/Emp/Superior Inferno/Major Lore Wall of Fire/Ice Storm near the corner.
5. Whip out Shield of Reflection and shield block in the corner. (Make sure the shield is facing the bad guys.)
6. Giggle every time you see something turn to stone.
7. Let melees do some DPS since they apparently don’t know what the intimidate skill is for.
8. Wait for mobs to die.

[FrozenNova]

You're a caster, you *want* agro. The best person to hold agro is the caster, as they're best equipped to deal with it. At these levels, a web and a firewall will turn the biggest wall of trash into ashes, while a resistable dance will render a fire giant or elemental an amusing beating post for the melees.
While you have agro, you should only be taking minimal damage. Keep the trash under control and ensure that between jump, haste, displace and stoneskin melees don't touch you.

[Kinerd]

And because you're a sorcerer who may have spell slot constraints, displacement & haste & stoneskin is really overkill at this level. You should be able to physically move around enough that monsters getting a hit to process is an unusual event. I'm not saying you should actively avoid the above spells, but it's not the end of the world if you can't run with them all at this level.

In closing, haste please.

-a melee

[Zigana]

why not blur + displacemnt + stoneskin?

Because Blur and Displacement don't stack? Displacement is the better option, it just doesn't last as long as Blur does. Typically, the only reason to cast both at the same time is so when the Displacement wears off, you have the Blur as a backup until a fresh Displacement is able to be cast on you.

[Lord_Thanatos]

Because Blur and Displacement don't stack? Displacement is the better option, it just doesn't last as long as Blur does. Typically, the only reason to cast both at the same time is so when the Displacement wears off, you have the Blur as a backup until a fresh Displacement is able to be cast on you.

Blur and Displacement do stack actually. So Blur should be kept up at all times and Displacement used right before or during a battle to make most of its duration.

[Aurora1979]

Because Blur and Displacement don't stack? Displacement is the better option, it just doesn't last as long as Blur does. Typically, the only reason to cast both at the same time is so when the Displacement wears off, you have the Blur as a backup until a fresh Displacement is able to be cast on you.

oooo im not sure about that.... I dont know the mechanics but im sure one says blurry and one says displaced when they take effect.

[Zigana]

I recently started a new Human Sorcerer character. I had tried a couple of Wizzies early on, but this is my first real arcane character, and he is currently at level 11.


More and more I am having a terrible time avoiding aggro. I'll toss down a maxed+empowered firewall and monsters will sprint past the melees to thank me up close and personal.


It's to the point where I won't drop FWs until after the melees have taken a bit of a beating, and lately I'm reluctant to drop a maxed firewall on anything that isn't half dead already. I've had PUG leaders instruct me to lay down FWs to prepare for the boss battle, but I have to refuse since the melees can't contain the boss who is doing everything he can to tear my throat out. Even if I turn invis after laying down a maxed+empowered+extended FW, the boss seems to sniff me out.


Is it me? Is it the melees? (I've noticed good melee/dps types can keep the boss contained or at least interested).


I've got 30% hate reduction so far, but I can't tell if it has made any difference at all. I have about 180 hps so far, and always run with stoneskin and blur (and I've started to chew through invis scrolls as well), but when every critter on the screen is out for my blood it wouldn't matter if I had 400 hps.


Do I have to take my foot off the gas and do less damage to stay alive? That seems to be the most effective strategy - doing less damage and picking my spots, but I also feel like I'm piking b/c I've got all this awesome DPS I could be dishing out, but I have to hold it back. It's frustrating.


Any play tips so I can realize my full potential and blast away?

As the others have said, learning to kite or block is really the best options if you can't instakill. Throw down a FW and run in circles around it (well, actually more like ovals, you wanna stay somewhat close to it), or run straight down the line of it, then turn around and run back to the other end, jumping over any monsters that are following you--they'll be chasing you inside the FW instead of ever leaving it. With Blur/Displacement and Stoneskin, you shouldn't get hit a whole lot--and with a decent UMD you can self heal as needed if not WF, repair/recon if you are. Shield blocking is also very effective--and it does not require an actual shield to do. Even without a shield, you'll see the damage numbers you do take will be smaller than if you just stood there. Combine FW with other spells that will immobilize the mobs in them--web/disco ball are great spells to use in combo with FW. Experiment!

[Four20]

lol blur and displacement doesn't stack

imo its about aggro management. because you can hit things far away, doesn't mean you should be the first person in your party to hit them.

i see this all the time with archers, since they can shoot stuff before melee gets to them. the enemy has the archer on the aggro list first, and even after you hit it a couple times. its gonna go after the archer until the aggro checks again

but if you are caught in that spot, having jump already cast on you(from the start of the quest) makes it easy to jump over the enemies and continue to kite them(haste works well here too )

[Zigana]

Blur and Displacement do stack actually. So Blur should be kept up at all times and Displacement used right before or during a battle to make most of its duration.

Blur: An ally's outline becomes slightly blurred, granting a 20% miss chance on attacks against the ally.

Displacement: An ally creature's outline becomes blurred, giving enemies a 50% miss chance when attacking.

I don't believe they give a 70% chance if cast together....typically when things are of the same type, the higher one takes precedence. It is possible they are rolled independently, as in if Blur is rolled at 20% and the attack succeeds through that, then Displacement would then be rolled to see if it makes it through that 50%? I can't attest to that part. But it seems highly unlikely to me. I don't notice I get missed any more often with both going than with only Displacement going.

[Aurora1979]

Blur: An ally's outline becomes slightly blurred, granting a 20% miss chance on attacks against the ally.

Displacement: An ally creature's outline becomes blurred, giving enemies a 50% miss chance when attacking.

I don't believe they give a 70% chance if cast together....typically when things are of the same type, the higher one takes precedence. It is possible they are rolled independently, as in if Blur is rolled at 20% and the attack succeeds through that, then Displacement would then be rolled to see if it makes it through that 50%? I can't attest to that part. But it seems highly unlikely to me. I don't notice I get missed any more often with both going than with only Displacement going.

I dont honestly know. I didnt think they stack for 70% but i did think they had seperate rolls. I havent actually tested it, i just always cast both on myself from habit. Ill take your word for it though.

[Kinerd]

It is possible they are rolled independently, as in if Blur is rolled at 20% and the attack succeeds through that, then Displacement would then be rolled to see if it makes it through that 50%?

This is how miss chances of different types work, but Blur and Displacement are the same type: Concealment. They do not stack.

[Postumus]

do the damage and ride the pain.

You will probably flame me for giving you bad advice again but ive played a few arcanes now and ive never been able to full avoid agro.

Not every encounter obviously but square room, 10 gnoll sargents rushing your team, you drop a firewall and run round the edge of it.

Blur, displacment and stoneskin along with any healing you can muster will help to ease the pain.

with bosses its a bit different and you just wana try and either pace the damage you deal to aviod spam casting and pulling agro. OR.... spam cast the heck out of it and destroy all who oppose you....

Not only will I not flame you (or fire wall you), but I almost want to steal your first sentence as a sig. It's definitely going into my Sorc's bio!

Do the damage and ride the pain!

Love it.


Seriously though, thanks Aurora (and everyone else) for the advice!