am I the only one or is there a general grumble factor

[Shade2891]

Ok I rolled a multiclass cleric my personal version of the valiance 2.0 build I love the build no speacial loot save the raid items from chronoscope. I speced for healing as when I cap I imagine I will be grouping and thats why I join both bad and good pugs and try to see them thru.

I hit lvl9 a couple nights ago and I am starting to double lvl and get raid flagged but the past couple nights I've been questing I'm getting flak for letting the party know ahead of time I'm not a pure cleric.

As of now I am 1rog1monk7cleric so I am 1 spell level behind a pure I haven't had any issues so far healing bad or good pugs but last night was getting all shades of BS from a wiz. Ended up dropping group and sending a tell to leader explaining and appologizeing for the drop

Is this something I'm just gonna have to deal with or is it just a few bad eggs that I'll run into along the way.

And is it so bad for me before quest starts to explain that I'm not pure etc? I figured that before quest starts is a better time than halfway thru quest.

[katana_one]

Would not worry about it too much - the leader can see what your class/level breakdown is when you apply to the LFM, and the leader still accepted you.

The only reason to explain your build up front is if you feel you might have trouble performing the role they expect of you, and even then, it's the leader's call, not some random party member.

[MrLarone]

was in a group (running madstone, everyone aroun 16/17 iirc) a couple of weeks back where someone was knocking the cleric for being a multiclass, clr said "ok, carry on and no heals for you!"the guy ramped up the venom about how that'd be no change as he couldn't heal him anyway.

i told the ****** "carry on and it's now buffs from me too", me being on my bard.

dude shut up.

ran quest, no deaths (no ever below 1/2 hp for that matter), everyone get's xp and group looking to carry on. the dude says thanks to all and drops group.

and that's what i comes down to.

yes, you will meet some db's, but they only doit cos they think they'll get away with it. once they realise it's not just there victim they're annoying they fall in line (well this time they did).

don't know if that helps, but don't take it personally, and next /tell the leader before you drop and he might have a word to sort it out.

if they don't, well then it's really not a group you want to be in anyways =p

***edit***

the french for shower is a banned word here!? how about pillock...?

***2nd edit***

ok, the above should read:

i told the pillock "carry on...

[Atree]

Most of my builds are multiclass, my favorite being a cleric/fighter/rogue combo (now a lvl 8 TR).

I PuG quite a bit and get all sorts of comments. Sometimes it's annoying, other times the ranter is so off-the-wall that it is actually amusing. Bonus points when I disable all the traps (no other rogue in the party), am the only one dispensing any form of healing (noone self-heals) lead the kill-count by a factor of 4x and the peep keeps on complaining that I am not fulfilling my "roll" in the party.

I've often grouped with self-designated tanks that had about half my hp, no fort, no DR, and patently useless AC. If they insist on continuing to agro and even intimi everything in sight, then the prudent course of action is to haul their stone in your pack until the next shrine. If you like tough challenges try to keep them alive, but note that this will likely be costly and rewarded by them bragging about how awesome they were.

However I've also had the pleasure of grouping up with nice people that quickly saw past the class icon and readjusted the strategy of the team accordingly. A great example of this was running Proof in the Poison on elite with a lvl 5 Wiz, lvl 6 Pal, lvl 6 Ftr, 2 Cle hirelings and myself (5/1/1 Cle/Ftr/Rog). I was leading the charge attracting most of the agro, taking little dmg which my hireling easily handled. The Wiz offered to use his hireling to heal the other fighters. Quest went smooth as silk with zero deaths. Afaik the only consumables used by the party were a handful of CLW pots and 1 wand of resist energy.

Another amusing tale was running Rainbow on hard with some random PuG. Despite my best efforts the 2 arcanes kept dying (health<200). The other members were a tad less squishy but had a tendency to zerg off out of aura/burst healing (and often around corners). By the time we got the crest I was the only one alive, and had about 10% sp left. I collected the stones and slowly hacked my way to the shrine, relying on the aura and my trusty Carnifex. Cries of imminent wipe slowly turned into banter about how the next encounter is bound to finish me. By the time we reached the shrine people were cheering. At least 2 members sent me tells asking about the build.

Finally note that 17lvls of cleric are enough to heal any raid in the game if you are in a competent group. Only disadvantage for you is the slightly smaller sp pool, which might rarely result in having to use a pot. However the advantage of being more survivable and able to stand in the melee scrum far outweighs this in almost all cases.

TLDR
Yes you'll get flak
No need to appologise for your build

[Fishcatch22]

Most of my builds are multiclass, my favorite being a cleric/fighter/rogue combo (now a lvl 8 TR).

I PuG quite a bit and get all sorts of comments. Sometimes it's annoying, other times the ranter is so off-the-wall that it is actually amusing. Bonus points when I disable all the traps (no other rogue in the party), am the only one dispensing any form of healing (noone self-heals) lead the kill-count by a factor of 4x and the peep keeps on complaining that I am not fulfilling my "roll" in the party.

I've often grouped with self-designated tanks that had about half my hp, no fort, no DR, and patently useless AC. If they insist on continuing to agro and even intimi everything in sight, then the prudent course of action is to haul their stone in your pack until the next shrine. If you like tough challenges try to keep them alive, but note that this will likely be costly and rewarded by them bragging about how awesome they were.

However I've also had the pleasure of grouping up with nice people that quickly saw past the class icon and readjusted the strategy of the team accordingly. A great example of this was running Proof in the Poison on elite with a lvl 5 Wiz, lvl 6 Pal, lvl 6 Ftr, 2 Cle hirelings and myself (5/1/1 Cle/Ftr/Rog). I was leading the charge attracting most of the agro, taking little dmg which my hireling easily handled. The Wiz offered to use his hireling to heal the other fighters. Quest went smooth as silk with zero deaths. Afaik the only consumables used by the party were a handful of CLW pots and 1 wand of resist energy.

Another amusing tale was running Rainbow on hard with some random PuG. Despite my best efforts the 2 arcanes kept dying (health<200). The other members were a tad less squishy but had a tendency to zerg off out of aura/burst healing (and often around corners). By the time we got the crest I was the only one alive, and had about 10% sp left. I collected the stones and slowly hacked my way to the shrine, relying on the aura and my trusty Carnifex. Cries of imminent wipe slowly turned into banter about how the next encounter is bound to finish me. By the time we reached the shrine people were cheering. At least 2 members sent me tells asking about the build.

Finally note that 17lvls of cleric are enough to heal any raid in the game if you are in a competent group. Only disadvantage for you is the slightly smaller sp pool, which might rarely result in having to use a pot. However the advantage of being more survivable and able to stand in the melee scrum far outweighs this in almost all cases.

TLDR
Yes, you'll get flak.
No need to apologize for your build

This guy is a living example of a well-played Battlecleric, and you need to try to emulate him. People get flak because people often play Battleclerics wrong... You can see something likea WF FvS played the exact same way, and people will expect competent heals out of them and never fire the **** guns at them. As long as you don't forget that you're a healer first and a melee second in most groups, you'll be fine.

[herzkos]

don't worry about it. as the posters above stated, if you're competent only incompetents will care
that you aren't pure.

pure builds are good. for new players learning the game and those who aren't too sure about
what they want their character to end up as.

if you know the game and have a plan for your character, by all means multiclass. it's all about
tradeoffs and if you know what your getting versus giving up then you're good to go

[hermespan]

The only character I have that's not a multiclass is a wizard and a level 9 rogue.

I actually got turned down for a xorian cipher on my warforged tank build.

Level 10, 262 HP, max str. max con 8/2 fighter/rogue. (end game goal is 18/2 rock candy mountain tank build)

I have a lot of HP, good AC, evasion, toughness feat + enhancements, deathblock, slashing specced, khopesh, ITWF, 100% fort (belt of moderate fort +25% innate), stacks of 100 of each type of potion, more or less bottomless self healing etc etc.

Party leader said I was squishy and fighter rogues suck.

/shrug

I was bored and there were no groups so I soloed HIPS at-level on normal and got to restless isles chain.

[Illiain]

The only character I have that's not a multiclass is a wizard and a level 9 rogue.

I actually got turned down for a xorian cipher on my warforged tank build.

Party leader said I was squishy and fighter rogues suck.

/shrug

I was bored and there were no groups so I soloed HIPS at-level on normal and got to restless isles chain.

You were definitely better off and had more fun your way.

[bryanmeerkat]

Ok I rolled a multiclass cleric my personal version of the valiance 2.0 build I love the build no speacial loot save the raid items from chronoscope. I speced for healing as when I cap I imagine I will be grouping and thats why I join both bad and good pugs and try to see them thru.

I hit lvl9 a couple nights ago and I am starting to double lvl and get raid flagged but the past couple nights I've been questing I'm getting flak for letting the party know ahead of time I'm not a pure cleric.

As of now I am 1rog1monk7cleric so I am 1 spell level behind a pure I haven't had any issues so far healing bad or good pugs but last night was getting all shades of BS from a wiz. Ended up dropping group and sending a tell to leader explaining and appologizeing for the drop

Is this something I'm just gonna have to deal with or is it just a few bad eggs that I'll run into along the way.

And is it so bad for me before quest starts to explain that I'm not pure etc? I figured that before quest starts is a better time than halfway thru quest.

If the guy was talking you down in party chat then you should of announced in party chat its him or you . If it was before the quest started the Wiz would have likely been told to shut up or leave .
Otherwise he would of just been told to shut up .
People generally would much rather have a splashed cleric , than no cleric at all .
Clerics have a lot of power because its a rare and thankless job that not a lot of players will take on .
Its very seldom a group of 5 people will be sat round going : ooh if only we had a wizard we could do this quest .
Its quite often a group of 5 people will be sat around with an LFM :"healer only please" up .

The Valiance build is very good , you got the power not some flakey wizard . My wizard dont care how good the healer is I can look after myself . If the guy has built a wizard that cant then thats his look out and the group wouldnt miss him

[Shade2891]

First off wanted to say thanks to all so far.

I have not caused any wipes yet afaik at least and when deaths do happen that are my fault I am quick to take blame that I deserve I am still on the learning curve but generally I am found buffing before fights using aura to heal in the fray and spot healing when necisary.

I keep a few cure serious wands for low/no sp healing. I can boost my AC to around 40 selfbuff/human AC boost in groups higher than that. Started woth 15wis and with items and all my DC's are still quite potent Soundburst is still working 70% of the time +/- and my holds only seem to fail on casters.

Build is very powerfull and I am currently debating on taking my 2nd monl lvl at 10 for evasion or waiting till after BB at 13. I do find that I am able to do traps, heal, and melee to a point my holy HW of maoming work well still need to get metaline and banes for those that holy doesn't work as without it my DPS suffers.

Thanks again and I am having a blast so far as far as I'm concerned I was running it no matter what I plan to TR her into the same build and get up to 36 build points to increase her effectiveness but still not 100% on that as I've jad no trouble so far in quests just the players I've run into as mentioned was curious as to if it was a thing that would get worse as I lvld.

[bryanmeerkat]

Thanks again and I am having a blast so far as far as I'm concerned I was running it no matter what I plan to TR her into the same build and get up to 36 build points to increase her effectiveness but still not 100% on that as I've jad no trouble so far in quests just the players I've run into as mentioned was curious as to if it was a thing that would get worse as I lvld.

If you are planning to run it up for a 36 pointer I would maybe suggest doing your next life in some FVS build , as the past life feat is nice to have and will be a bit of a change of pace for you .

[SaisMatters]

Next time a caster gives you grief tell him to reroll into a warforged so he can heal himself! Healers are not babystters and they can bring much more to the party than just heals. Some of the best Clerics i know are multi-classed.

[katana_one]

... when deaths do happen that are my fault I am quick to take blame that I deserve ....

That's admirable, but don't do this. You just reinforce the idea that clerics are nothing but heal-bots. If it truly was your fault someone died, fine. But I would bet that 9 out of 10 times it wasn't you, but the other player who thought that you were his personal band-aid dispenser and drew too much aggro too fast who is to blame.

Me? There was only ONE time I have ever blamed a cleric for my death - the cleric was me.

[Phidius]

...
Is this something I'm just gonna have to deal with or is it just a few bad eggs that I'll run into along the way.
...

I've found that the deeper I splash a cleric, the fewer d-bags I have to put up with.

[Illiain]

I've found that the deeper I splash a cleric, the fewer d-bags I have to put up with.

And being a level 20 pure cleric does not make that character the best cleric ever. I've seen nannybots one shotted by DBFs, where an 18/2 Clonk would have survived. 90% heals of a pure healbot +40% dps of a pure dps class > 100%heals

[redoubt]

First, a question... are you shade and just posting from an alt account?

Second, and to the question... just a few non nice people I think. But as for playing characters who look like the healing class I have a couple experiences.

I have a FVS/pali/monk. She is a TWF scimitar build using the high str and the scimitar bonus enhancements from the faith line. Being short 3 levels of FvS she has less spells and less mana than a pure FvS.

I also have a pure cleric (at level 5 on TR2 right now). He is casting / turn spec'd. He has max wis and cha and the rest in con. He's very good at CC and healing. Later he will be very good spell dps as well.

With both these characters I seldom pug. Why? Many pug players are just looking for someone to heal. They don't realize what else you bring to the table.

With my FvS, I do good dps and if I have to stop to heal (as opposed to occasionally throwing a heal between swings) we lose dps and actually take more damage.

On my cleric if I just heal, the group takes more damage than if I use CC and help kill.

Usually, I find it is not worth explaining this in groups. (Sadly) I usually just do what I need to do anyway. That is, melee with the FvS and control the battle with the cleric. Most of the time noone complains because it works. The ones that do complain are generally not worth wasting the words on explaining the problem.

Welcome (or welcome back) to the fold.

[AtomicMew]

Others have touched on this, but as a Cleric, you have far more power over a group than even the leader of the party... Use this to your advantage. For 99% of the content in game, a party needs a cleric more than a cleric needs a party...

This is patently false and is a common misconception. It's actually quite the opposite - 90% of the game (e.g., everything but raids and SOME epics) can be played without the need for a player cleric. You do not have power over a group when your role can be replaced by hirelings or pots. Put another way, you are ONLY worth taking in a group if you can bring significant DPS or utility to the group.

I find the common attitude, that, because you are a cleric, you are more important than anyone else - to be worse than the attitude described in the OP. Don't kid yourself. You are not more or less important than any member of the group.

[cdemeritt]

Others have touched on this, but as a Cleric, you have far more power over a group than even the leader of the party... Use this to your advantage. For 99% of the content in game, a party needs a cleric more than a cleric needs a party...

This is patently false and is a common misconception. It's actually quite the opposite - 90% of the game (e.g., everything but raids and SOME epics) can be played without the need for a player cleric. You do not have power over a group when your role can be replaced by hirelings or pots. Put another way, you are ONLY worth taking in a group if you can bring significant DPS or utility to the group.

I find the common attitude, that, because you are a cleric, you are more important than anyone else - to be worse than the attitude described in the OP. Don't kid yourself. You are not more or less important than any member of the group.

Ok, to start off, this is not intended to flame.. any snarkyness, snobbery, or other such attitude that might come across in this post is not intended... Just had a bad day at work... It might show...


1: What part of that quote do you find "patently false?" That a Cleric can solo 99% of the game (including Epics and Elite raids) or that a group will need a cleric more than a cleric needs a group? Yes, in a competent group, with knowledgeable strong players, 90% of the game can be played without a cleric... but if the players were the type to not need a cleric, they wouldn't be complaining to the cleric about being a multiclass build as stated in the op, and a gimped healer...

Or are you saying that the part where I said a cleric has more power over a group than even the party leader part is wrong? ok, this is slightly miss worded, I should have said, A cleric often can have more power... How? Why? Well the person with the star has very little power once a quest starts... it's all about getting people to do what you want. Say you are the fighter with the star, and I'm the cleric... once in the quest, you say "heal me" and I say no... what can you do about it? recall and reform... that's it. you can't drop me, (as long as I stay in the quest), you can't force me, you can only ask me... and hope I'll do it. say the quest is 50% done and you recall, drop me, and reform... I'm still in the quest at 50% done, I'll most likely finish the quest without you. Now, I as a cleric say, if you don't stay near me, I won't heal you... well if you can take care of yourself, you are unlikely to be asking me to "heal you" in the first place. people tend to stick with the cleric when they need the cleric to heal them... I can't force people to stick with me, but when they die, I don't need to raise them... No one can force anyone to do anything in quest, but the threat of heal withholding usually form consensus quickly. Now, say you really annoy me, there is greater dispell...

You do not have power over a group when your role can be replaced by hirelings or pots.

Well, then why are you looking for a cleric if a hireling will do? A hireling is barely more than a healbot... and if you are saying healbots are a waste of space (and you did).... And please Bring 10000 pots... I don't want to waste my SP healing you, I'd rather try to outkill you and the arcane combined... (ok in non-epics, the sorc usually wins, but what can I say...)

I find the common attitude, that, because you are a cleric, you are more important than anyone else - to be worse than the attitude described in the OP. Don't kid yourself. You are not more or less important than any member of the group.

The attitude is common because WE DON'T NEED YOU to hold our hand in a quest. most people who play clerics don't need to hide behind the big bad barbarian... If someone is giving you the cleric grief, well leave... sometimes you will get asked back, and the grief giver will be gone... And if you are playing a cleric and need a party, you are probably new or doing something wrong.

[AtomicMew]

Don't get me wrong, my main is a cleric, and clerics are still my favoritest class in the game. However, it's a fact that cleric is mainly a support class. This being the case, you are much more dependent on the group then the group is on you.

Clerics have the least DPS potential of any class in the game, besides maybe a bard. Stories of clerics out-killing melee classes are greatly exaggerated and are usually due to individual player and gear, rather any systematic difference in power between classes.

You WILL level faster if you group up with a bunch of DPS toons. It isn't necessarily the case the other way around. Not having a healer is common in zerg and TR groups, because potions, gear and knowledge replace most of the support function. That leaves cleric's DPS function which contributes to the group, which, again, is subpar.

However, even average players like myself can zerg it hard with a hireling. Couple that with the fact that some (many) clerics can't even perform the support function properly, losing the small portion of DPS that a potential player-cleric can bring is a good trade-off for the very support the hireling brings.

[Habreno]

This is patently false and is a common misconception. It's actually quite the opposite - 90% of the game (e.g., everything but raids and SOME epics) can be played without the need for a player cleric. You do not have power over a group when your role can be replaced by hirelings or pots. Put another way, you are ONLY worth taking in a group if you can bring significant DPS or utility to the group.

I find the common attitude, that, because you are a cleric, you are more important than anyone else - to be worse than the attitude described in the OP. Don't kid yourself. You are not more or less important than any member of the group.

1) Granted, the quote I couldn't quote is not true all the time at lower levels; often times people have pots and drink them. Do you expect to run VoD without a healer? GOOD LUCK! Let me know how many times you die. I'd place a bet on over 50 per person, with 25 on any monks.

2) Most of us nearing cap/at cap are not just healers. We do provide DPS/Buffs/CC/other things. We have, at the most, 10 heal spells. We only have to have 8, the other two are optionals I'm sorry, but I think that we don't keep our spellbooks filled with only 8-10 spells