Hukaw (Human Divine Tukaw variant)

[Rodasch]

I am a huge fan of Tukaw's build and was thinking about how to make a human variant and abuse some of the divine power of Favored Soul. Here's a preliminary piece together of the basic build (assume similar gearing strategy to Tukaw's end build, but opting for non-docent options and such. I'm really just looking for input on the build itself and how to tweak it for better performance.

Here it is

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
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hukaw 
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 16 Favored Soul) 
Hit Points: 331
Spell Points: 1565 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 27
Reflex: 23
Will: 24

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    22
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               12                    17
Charisma             18                    24

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     8
Bluff                 4                     7
Concentration         6                    16
Diplomacy             4                     7
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                4                     8
Heal                  1                     4
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            4                     9
Jump                  6                    21
Listen                1                     3
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  5                     7
Swim                  2                     6
Tumble               n/a                    1
Use Magic Device      n/a                  18

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Club
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Light Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Quarterstaff
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike


Level 2 (Paladin)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Nightshield


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Lightning Reflexes
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Spell (1): Protection From Evil


Level 7 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Automatic) Child of the Sovereign Host
Spell (1): Command
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I


Level 8 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wisdom I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Spell (2): Soundburst
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II


Level 10 (Favored Soul)
Spell (3): Mass Aid
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma II


Level 11 (Favored Soul)
Spell (2): Close Wounds
Spell (3): Prayer
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic III


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Spell (4): Divine Power
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wisdom II


Level 13 (Favored Soul)
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Spell (2): Hold Person
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I


Level 14 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Acid
Spell (5): True Seeing
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic IV


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (4): Deathward
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III


Level 16 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Automatic) Beloved of the Sovereign Host
Spell (6): Blade Barrier
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life III


Level 17 (Favored Soul)
Spell (6): Heal
Spell (5): Protection From Elements
Spell (4): Restoration


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Spell (7): Destruction
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma III


Level 19 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity
Spell (7): Resurrection
Spell (6): Banishment
Spell (5): Greater Command
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness IV


Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (8): Summon Monster VIII
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery I

[Kriogen]

... how to tweak it for better performance. ...

Wings.

[unbongwah]

Forgive me for being blunt, but I think your build is based on a misunderstanding of how Favored Souls work - specifically, what stats they care about:

- CHA is only important for making sure you can cast your spells: 10 + spell lvl or CHA 19 for lvl 9 spells. Since tomes, items, and enhs all count towards it, most FvS start w/low-ish CHA and make up the difference that way. The reason Tukaw goes for high CHA is it's a sorc, so CHA is its primary casting stat.
- WIS affects your FvS spell DCs; it is typically either dump-stated (on a melee- or buffer-/healer-focused build) or maxed out (on an offensive-caster build).
- FvS & monks get the highest saves in the game, thus taking a paladin splash for Divine Grace is usually overkill, esp. if you have to sacrifice wings & lvl 9 spells to get it. Tukaw works to overcome dump-stating WIS and the so-so saves of sorcs.
- Evasion is great; so is the FvS capstone (DR 10 plus free spell ability) plus fifth elemental resist. One should think carefully before splashing a FvS.

Have a look at Impaqt's Superior Soul: it combines decent melee plus good offensive casting plus everything that goes with being a pure FvS into a stronger package than what you have, IMHO.

[Rodasch]

Forgive me for being blunt, but I think your build is based on a misunderstanding of how Favored Souls work - specifically, what stats they care about:

- CHA is only important for making sure you can cast your spells: 10 + spell lvl or CHA 19 for lvl 9 spells. Since tomes, items, and enhs all count towards it, most FvS start w/low-ish CHA and make up the difference that way. The reason Tukaw goes for high CHA is it's a sorc, so CHA is its primary casting stat.
- WIS affects your FvS spell DCs; it is typically either dump-stated (on a melee- or buffer-/healer-focused build) or maxed out (on an offensive-caster build).
- FvS & monks get the highest saves in the game, thus taking a paladin splash for Divine Grace is usually overkill, esp. if you have to sacrifice wings & lvl 9 spells to get it. Tukaw works to overcome dump-stating WIS and the so-so saves of sorcs.
- Evasion is great; so is the FvS capstone (DR 10 plus free spell ability) plus fifth elemental resist. One should think carefully before splashing a FvS.

Have a look at Impaqt's Superior Soul: it combines decent melee plus good offensive casting plus everything that goes with being a pure FvS into a stronger package than what you have, IMHO.

Thank you. That's the kind of input I was looking for.

[PurdueDave]

Read all of Tak's build thread carefully. He is very thorough on the "why" replies.

[Pape_27]

any way to get 17 levels of FvS into this build? Leap of Faith ftw.

[Rodasch]

any way to get 17 levels of FvS into this build? Leap of Faith ftw.

Yeah, I could drop the paladin levels since the saves aren't really necessary with a fvs.

[Aragan]

Yeah, I could drop the paladin levels since the saves aren't really necessary with a fvs.

You could also switch the race to half-elf with paladin diletante, drop charisma to 12, increase str and con to at least 16 and switch to a 17 fvs 2 monk 1 fighter which will get up to +5 to saves from charisma, have the same amount of feats and proficiences and get haste boost, wings and a level 9 spell.
If you want to tank you definately want to pick up intimidate or you are unlikely to be able to hold aggro.

[Rodasch]

Ok, let's try this. Here it is with the paladin levels dropped, changed thf to twf and went longswords (synergy with monk and fvs sovereign host) Dropped most of the casting feats other than quicken and extend. Lowered the charisma to minimum needed to cast 9th level spells, increased the dex to account for twf and itwf, increased the constitution and str for more melee focus. Now it gets wings and FvS longsword AP's for +2 dmg with longswords and free proficiency.

This build will be running Divine Power, Implosion, Death Pact, Prayer, Recitation, and Divine Favor almost constantly in combat, with the ability to drop Blade Barriers for killing swarms and can use banishment and destruction where appropriate though the DC's won't be as strong as a pure caster specced FvS. Should be able to quickened Heal himself in combat when needed or perform basic healing or backup healing in groups/raids.

The monk levels grant evasion, 2 extra feats, and bonus to the AC as well as a few skill points since FvS is short on skills.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
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Hukaw Take2
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Monk \ 18 Favored Soul) 
Hit Points: 357
Spell Points: 1637 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 17
Will: 18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    19
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               14                    18
Charisma              8                    13

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    11
Bluff                -1                     1
Concentration         6                    17
Diplomacy            -1                     1
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle               -1                     1
Heal                  2                     4
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate           -1                     1
Jump                  7                    30
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  2                     4
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                3                     4
Use Magic Device      1                    12

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Club
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Light Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Quarterstaff
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike


Level 2 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Nightshield


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Spell (1): Command


Level 4 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Automatic) Child of the Sovereign Host
Spell (1): Protection From Evil


Level 5 (Favored Soul)
Spell (2): Resist Energy


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Spell (2): Soundburst


Level 7 (Favored Soul)
Spell (3): Mass Aid
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I


Level 8 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (2): Close Wounds


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Spell (4): Divine Power


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wisdom I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wisdom II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II


Level 11 (Favored Soul)
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (2): Hold Person
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life II


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Acid
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Spell (5): True Seeing
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic IV


Level 13 (Favored Soul)
Spell (4): Deathward
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma III


Level 14 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Automatic) Beloved of the Sovereign Host
Spell (6): Blade Barrier
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life III


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (6): Heal
Spell (5): Protection From Elements
Spell (4): Recitation
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life III


Level 16 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (7): Destruction
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III


Level 17 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity
Spell (7): Resurrection
Spell (6): Banishment
Spell (5): Greater Command
Enhancement: Favored Soul Longsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness IV


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (8): Death Pact
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I


Level 19 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Automatic) Leap Of Faith
Spell (7): Greater Restoration
Spell (8): Summon Monster VIII
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion III


Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (9): Implosion
Enhancement: Favored Soul Longsword Specialization II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Spell Penetration I

[Rodasch]

You could also switch the race to half-elf with paladin diletante, drop charisma to 12, increase str and con to at least 16 and switch to a 17 fvs 2 monk 1 fighter which will get up to +5 to saves from charisma, have the same amount of feats and proficiences and get haste boost, wings and a level 9 spell.
If you want to tank you definately want to pick up intimidate or you are unlikely to be able to hold aggro.

Really trying to make this a human build.

I'm not really seeking to be a group tank, more seeking to be able to solo well, and be able to contribute to a group in both heals and damage/kills as needed. I'm not sure I hit the mark or not, I'll have to think more on it. This is all kind of a work in progress right now.

They might be right in the end about the Superior Soul build. I'm just looking for experienced builders' input on this.

[voodoogroves]

You could also switch the race to half-elf with paladin diletante, drop charisma to 12, increase str and con to at least 16 and switch to a 17 fvs 2 monk 1 fighter which will get up to +5 to saves from charisma, have the same amount of feats and proficiences and get haste boost, wings and a level 9 spell.
If you want to tank you definately want to pick up intimidate or you are unlikely to be able to hold aggro.

17 FVS won't get you a 9th level spell. It will get you wings though, and that's handy.

18/2 will work, as Rodasch is coming around to.

[jeremyt]

I dont think you understand the min/max nature of wisdom for FVS casters. Starting at 14 wisdom will buy you some will saves and not much else. If your not concentrating on wisdom you gotta drop it like its hot :P

[Rodasch]

I dont think you understand the min/max nature of wisdom for FVS casters. Starting at 14 wisdom will buy you some will saves and not much else. If your not concentrating on wisdom you gotta drop it like its hot :P

So what is the target wisdom to be worth putting anything into it at all for a FvS?

[jeremyt]

Max or near max (maximum 2 off max attainable) + all level ups + 6 or 7 ench item + 1-3 exc items.

[unbongwah]

I'd say your second build is much better than your first. I'm not sure I would bother with WSS; that costs you two feats on a feat-starved build for a relatively modest DPS boost, IMHO. OTWF is a weak feat; squeezing in PA or GTWF is more important to your melee DPS. I agree with jeremyt you should give up on offensive spells with this build; however, not so much because your WIS is only so-so (though that is an issue), but because you lack any metamagic feats to boost your DPS output (Maximize, Empower, etc.).

[kernal42]

Forgive me for being blunt, but I think your build is based on a misunderstanding of how Favored Souls work - specifically, what stats they care about:

- CHA is only important for making sure you can cast your spells: 10 + spell lvl or CHA 19 for lvl 9 spells. Since tomes, items, and enhs all count towards it, most FvS start w/low-ish CHA and make up the difference that way. The reason Tukaw goes for high CHA is it's a sorc, so CHA is its primary casting stat.

This is kind of misleading. Tukaw's high cha does very nearly nothing for his spellcasting except allowing him to cast spells and giving him more sp. His cha and feat selection are inadequate to achieve good DCs. Cha does the exact same thing for fvs, in that it allows spellcasting and gives more sp. The DC issue is almost entirely moot.

That said, I agree with all other posters suggesting the removal of the paladin levels; they are unnecessary here. It would be nice if some splash class unlocked intim, though, to make better use of your self-healing (if all the aggro is on you, you don't have to worry about the squishies in your party dying!)

Cheers,
Kernal

[Calebro]

You have a choice to make regarding Wisdom. It's all or nothing. Literally. Either start it at 16 at the very least with all level ups and the best gear you can get, or start it at 8 and forget about it.

Considering you'll be losing the capstone due to the splash, half-elf with Pally dilly and scimitars become a lot more appealing than longswords.... unless you're really stuck on a human. I know the planner doesn't allow for the FvS scimmy [Undying Court] enhancements on an half-elf at the moment, but that's a bug with the current version that will be fixed upon the next update.

It would basically become a standard elven 18/2 with slightly more HP, +5 to all your saves, and slightly less DPS due to the elven scimmy enhancements not being available.
Alternately, you could take Rogue dilly instead and make up the difference in DPS [and then a little more on top of that] at the cost of those 5 points from your already good saves.

[Alektronic]

We have a (good) guildie who runs the Tukaw build. The offensive spells we can rely on from him are MM/FM and FW (with max/emp/ext). Both are no save spells that do relevant damage. I've never seen him bother with nething else because of the DC issue (can't/shouldn't bother with it).

That being said ur divine counterparts are firestorm (AOE like FW but not persistant), searing light (poo dmg compared to MM w/out the enhancment synergies). Your other options are BB (AOE persistant like FW, but has a save) and Harm? (good dmg, good synergy, but still have a fort save). From offensive casting point of view, you can't make a divine counterpart to Tukaw imo.

DPS, ur looking at divine power/might on ur build vs clickies on Tukaw build. Your build wins here (by convenience mostly. prolly tied in numbers).

Intim, you should prolly splash a lvl of rouge/pally/fighter to get it as a class skill. Probably tied with Tukaw build.

Tankability, both are really sturdy builds. High AC, good saves, and SP to self heal. WF prolly get more DR from DoD and also stoneskin/blur/displacement, as well as some WF immunities. You're easier to heal. I'd say Tukaw wins (maybe not by much).

It's a really cool idea worth posting tho. +1 rep for putting it out there. I think splashing really helps divine classes alot less than arcanes though (as discussed somewhat in Superior Soul build thread).

[voodoogroves]

There is a guy with a build I think he calls the Golden Roach that is built on a similar model, but it's more focused in what it is trying to do. Dwarf too, IIRC.

You can't pull off the same feats as a Tukaw, but you can be relevant. I still wouldn't run a FVS to 16 though. Wings....so...addictive...must....have

[Rodasch]

I'm taking all this input into account and revising the build again, will post what I come up with once I lay it down in the planner.