Special Barbarian Intimidate plus stunning blow and Improved Trip worth being a Barb?

[Chad28]

I'm thinking about making a character with Stunning Blow and Improved Trip, and I know the special intimidate Barbarians get leaves foes shaken. that's +2 to my DC checks. Would it be worth doing that as opposed to just making a fighter? I would want enough dps to be able to hold enemies, especially after the change that made Intimidate last four seconds instead of six. However I don't need it to be pure dps. I can let it be tankish enough to intimidate trash mobs, and put some AP points in armor enhancements. Barbs are the only class that can cause the shaken status when they Intimidate, but I'm not sure if it's worth it over a fighter.

There's also the fact that I'm more familiar with Barbs than Fighters anyway.

[weewoo0]

THF
iTHF
gTHF
IC:slashing
PA
Cleave

that leaves you w/ 1 feat. if you splash 2 fighter thats 3 feats
is it really worth giving up toughness AND having 13 int (after tomes) to get improved trip w/ stunning blow? i mean you can still normally trip someone.

[JoeyWMD]

THF
iTHF
gTHF
IC:slashing
PA
Cleave

that leaves you w/ 1 feat. if you splash 2 fighter thats 3 feats
is it really worth giving up toughness AND having 13 int (after tomes) to get improved trip w/ stunning blow? i mean you can still normally trip someone.

It's been proven that you don't REALLY need toughness, but 2 fighter gives him the 18 barb for frenzied, and the extra feats in case he wants toughness. and an 11 int isn't bad that's what 3 build points? hardly matters he on a 32pt may not be able to do 18/20 str con or if it's a horc 20/18 which doesn't make THAT big of a difference with ship buffs

[Darkrok]

THF
iTHF
gTHF
IC:slashing
PA
Cleave

that leaves you w/ 1 feat. if you splash 2 fighter thats 3 feats
is it really worth giving up toughness AND having 13 int (after tomes) to get improved trip w/ stunning blow? i mean you can still normally trip someone.

So basically on an 18/2 non-human he'd be looking at the listed feats along with CE, Improved Trip, and Stunning Blow. No Toughness but it could at least be interesting. The 2 fighter also opens up the first tiers of the fighter tactics and strength lines. I'm thinking for a toon like this you'd want to go warforged THF to get the great weapon aptitude, tactics, and power attack lines. HOrc would have more strength though so I could see an argument for that as well. I'd have to see how the enhancements laid out on both as well to make a good decision.

[Chad28]

Actually I was thinking of dropping IC slashing for Improved Trip. Like I said this build wouldn't be trying to go all out with dps.

[Ambulance]

Actually I was thinking of dropping IC slashing for Improved Trip. Like I said this build wouldn't be trying to go all out with dps.

Remember that you won't be swinging a Min II all of the time, so you probably want to keep IC

[Darkrok]

Remember that you won't be swinging a Min II all of the time, so you probably want to keep IC

I agree. Why drop IC when you don't have to do so?

[Kinerd]

I would want enough dps to be able to hold enemies, especially after the change that made Intimidate last four seconds instead of six.

There was no such change. You can still lock enemies with intimidate indefinitely if your score is high enough.

As a barbarian you have no professional threat multipliers, so you would probably have a very hard time hate tanking without Improved Critical. You could go Stalwart Defender instead. The 50% threat increase would more than make up for the DPS you lose going dropping Kensei on a TWF or THF build, but I don't know if it could handle that and no IC.

[Chad28]

I guess that answers my question. I'll just start a fighter so I can get more feats and such.

[Darkrok]

Just in case you change your mind here's an outline of a HOrc version of this. I planned it as a 36-point build although a 32-point could just dump some charisma (I wanted a decent UMD score as well as a boost to intim). I only built out most of the AP's and left the last ones up to the user as I haven't played a Barb past 9. I just maxed out the dps stuff which leaves 8ap left to add in or extend rages, add con, etc. I may take the time to build out a WF'd and a HElf version of this (double-intim would be nice...if you're going to pump the Cha anyways Paladin Dilly could add some saves as well as give wand usage).

[Darkrok]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Chaotic Good Half-Orc Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Barbarian) 
Hit Points: 336
Spell Points: 20 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 6
Will: 6

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             20                 26                   29
Dexterity             8                 10                   10
Constitution         16                 18                   18
Intelligence         10                 13                   13
Wisdom                8                 10                   10
Charisma             12                 14                   14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               1                 11                   11
Bluff                 1                  2                    2
Concentration         3                  4                    4
Diplomacy             1                  2                    2
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                  2                    2
Heal                 -1                  0                    0
Hide                 -1                  0                    0
Intimidate            5                 25                   29
Jump                  7                 32                   32
Listen               -1                  0                    0
Move Silently        -1                  0                    0
Open Lock            n/a                n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                  1                    1
Search                0                  1                    1
Spot                 -1                  0                    0
Swim                  5                 18                   18
Tumble                0                  1                    1
Use Magic Device      3                 13                   13

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Orc Orc Blood
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Damage Reduction
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 7 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Rage


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Indomitable Will


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+3)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidation
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Power Rage I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

[Darkrok]

Here's the HElf version. You lose out on the great weapon aptitude, HOrc Power Attack, and 3 points of strength. We gain a lot more discretionary AP's (21 at least by my count vs 8 for the HOrc) and +5 to all saves from Paladin Dilettante (+4 to all saves without even wearing a +cha item if we have a +3 tome or a +2 tome and 2ap's spent) as well as wand usage in any down-time when we're not raged. Not overly useful but it's a small extra perk to go with the saves.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Chaotic Good Half-Elf Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Barbarian) 
Hit Points: 336
Spell Points: 20 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 8
Will: 8

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             18                 24                   26
Dexterity             8                 10                   10
Constitution         16                 18                   18
Intelligence         10                 13                   13
Wisdom                8                 10                   10
Charisma             15                 17                   17

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               1                 11                   11
Bluff                 2                  3                    3
Concentration         3                  4                    4
Diplomacy             2                  3                    3
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                  3                    3
Heal                 -1                  0                    0
Hide                 -1                  0                    0
Intimidate            6                 26                   30
Jump                  6                 31                   31
Listen               -1                  0                    0
Move Silently        -1                  0                    0
Open Lock            n/a                n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                  1                    1
Search                0                  1                    1
Spot                 -1                  0                    0
Swim                  4                 17                   17
Tumble                0                  1                    1
Use Magic Device      4                 14                   14

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Mixed Heritage
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Social Graces (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Damage Reduction
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 7 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Rage


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Indomitable Will


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+3)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidation
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante III
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

[sephiroth1084]

Don't take Improved Trip. It's +4 to the DC, a shorter cooldown between trips, and a longer time you keep them down than just using the free trip ability. If you're relying on trip alone as your melee CC, then I'd consider it, but if you plan on having Stunning Blow as well, I say you're fine with just Trip.

The barbarian intimidate strategy seems like a good one. I do something similar on my monk by hitting enemies with Touch of Despair (same -2 to saves for being shaken) before throwing out a Stunning Fist against monsters with higher saves.

[Darkrok]

Don't take Improved Trip. It's +4 to the DC, a shorter cooldown between trips, and a longer time you keep them down than just using the free trip ability. If you're relying on trip alone as your melee CC, then I'd consider it, but if you plan on having Stunning Blow as well, I say you're fine with just Trip.

The barbarian intimidate strategy seems like a good one. I do something similar on my monk by hitting enemies with Touch of Despair (same -2 to saves for being shaken) before throwing out a Stunning Fist against monsters with higher saves.

And if you don't take improved trip you could go pure then or splash Fighter for Toughness and 1 other feat. As well as freeing up some int.

[sephiroth1084]

Or, you could go with something like the Blitz build, mixing barbarian and fighter for better DCs, more feats and slightly more short-term DPS and a bit lower long-term DPS.

[Darkrok]

Or, you could go with something like the Blitz build, mixing barbarian and fighter for better DCs, more feats and slightly more short-term DPS and a bit lower long-term DPS.

You'd lose the barbarian intimidate though. Not that there's anything wrong with that but that's what the flavor for this build is. A 12/8 or 12/7/1 would be an option as well if you wanted to raise the dc's and get more feats but honestly I think this build is better pure or 18/2. Definitely wonder about going HElf on it to get those nice double-intim's when you need them. Also be nice to pick up fighter dilettante on a pure for the extra +2 to dc's - more than you'd get from splashing 2 levels.

[sephiroth1084]

You'd lose the barbarian intimidate though. Not that there's anything wrong with that but that's what the flavor for this build is. A 12/8 or 12/7/1 would be an option as well if you wanted to raise the dc's and get more feats but honestly I think this build is better pure or 18/2. Definitely wonder about going HElf on it to get those nice double-intim's when you need them. Also be nice to pick up fighter dilettante on a pure for the extra +2 to dc's - more than you'd get from splashing 2 levels.

Forgot barb intimidate came so late.

[TheDjinnFor]

I'm thinking about making a character with Stunning Blow and Improved Trip, and I know the special intimidate Barbarians get leaves foes shaken. that's +2 to my DC checks.

Improved Trip gives you the DC that fighters can afford to take to make them somewhat comparable to Barbarians. The simple fact is that Barbarians don't need Imp Trip with all that Strength they have. A fighter without Imp Trip is behind 5 (I think) if they go kensai (and 7 if they don't) since a raged barbarian gets like +14 to Str (capstone, 8 greater rage and 4 rage str enhancement, if I recall correctly).

If you're looking for the bonus duration then unfortunately you're out of luck, but barbs certainly don't need the extra DC. Remember that you can still trip without the feat!