Cleric VS FvS

[jwdaniels]

The blue bar is certianly one of the factors to determining a good healer.

The fact that a FvS has a bigger blue bar than a cleric only matters if you routinely run out of SP on your cleric. If you do 50% more healing per spell and as a result case 2/3 as many heals, you burn your SP much more slowly.

[DragonMageT]

Great argument.

3100 SP, you must be the best healer on all of the servers.

/bows to your greatness!

[bryanmeerkat]

bottom line is if you want to melee and not do alot of spell casting I would say go FVS you can dump cha and put most of your points into str and con and still have more mana then a cleric for buffing / healing IMHO

go either pure FVS warforged using greatswords or go Half-Orc 18/2 fvs/fighter or 18/1/1 fvs/fighter/monk for the feats and proficiency to use whatever weapons you want too , but I would stick with two handers IMHO

Or you could go cleric , dump charisma and put most of your points into strength and con and still have the ability to chuck up a RS Aura before entering combat and not have to break swing to cast healing spells

[jwdaniels]

To get back to the OPs original question, if you want a melee focused divine caster character that can heal well and provide a nice passive past life feat for your future spell casting needs, roll a Favored Soul.

If you want the most efficient and best burst healer that can also provide party support and crowd control while meleeing a little bit, then roll a cleric.

[FuzzyDuck81]

My general view of pure healing capability - clerics are better at MASS healing - empower healing is more powerful for clerics, they can use the aura to conserve SP & the burst is not only a decent AoE heal but restores multiple negative levels... beyond a once per 10min single target ability, to get that will normally require the ability to cast 8th level spells (or use from scrolls). For self-only work a sov host FvS has literally infinite healing capability at 20th through the capstone, but their mass heals wont have such high spikes & in a high damage situation an FvS using mass healing spells & a cleric using mass healing spells plus aura/bursts will likely work out pretty even, though probably still slightly in the clerics favour depending on number of turns available & exact number of SP/metamagics/gear etc.

Since the OP isnt interested in playing while capped but merely getting there, I'd have to say FvS is superior, especially considering it'll already be a TR so will have access to gear, player knowledge etc. as having far more SP to spare (loving having the guild SP augment crystals in addition to regular +sp items on my FvSs btw!) for damage mitigation through buffs & crowd control plus bladebarriers for damage will be the real key - plus the passive past life (extra spell pen) will be better for the subsequent life if playing as a caster.

[DragonMageT]

Apologies to the OP for derail.

Like I said before for melee, max str and con.
Look for increases to hit and damage items especially if you plan on gong TWF.

TWF is nice for the insta-kill weapons you can use later in game but that requires you to invest more
into Dex which takes away from Str.

THF saves you feats and stat points, gives you more damage and more hits.

[SEMPER]

Or you could go cleric , dump charisma and put most of your points into strength and con and still have the ability to chuck up a RS Aura before entering combat and not have to break swing to cast healing spells

Yes you could do this but as a melee cleric having charisma is your best weapon IMHO , having divine might II or III will help out your dps while still having a decent str and con to go with it plus you get the benefit of having more turns this way as well because without them where does your RS go

[Loromir]

Free cure light enhanced by meta feats. Not bad. The DR 10 does mean something, pair it with a DR item and a shield and you have an effective way of reducing incoming damage some time to nill.

Once Clerics run out of turns and SP, no more healing.

FvS - healing indefinately unless they pick a different Capstone.

With Radient Servant, I rarely run out of healing with my LV 17 Cleric. I have 11 turns and almost never see that go down to 0, and when it does, I usually still have some SP. And since my turns regenerate, it rarely stays at 0 for long. Nothing the FVS has (Or any class for that matter) measures up to the overall usefulness of Radient Servant in my opinion.

Note, this is my opinion and I full expect others to have their own opinion. Diversity is what makes this world so great.

[der_kluge]

My first life was cleric 20, and I'm on a TR FvS now, who is currently level 14.

I can give you my perspective.


My cleric was a healing machine. Ended with about 2000 mana, full radiant servant stuff - LOTS of DV IIIs (extra turning feat) - some really nice Clerical gear (Lorrik's necklace, gauntlets of eternity, token of the faithful, scepter of healing, etc.). Combat-wise, she was a complete joke of a toon. She used a heavy shield and heavy maces. If I were lucky, I could crit maybe 30 points of damage. But she was my first toon, and I built her in a PnP style - very healing oriented. To that end, she was HIGHLY effective.


Now, as a Favored Soul, I have more mana, but fewer spell choices. So, I have to think long and hard about which spells I take. If I were soloing, I wouldn't take mass cures, but I'm a realist, and I know that people are inviting me to parties so I can heal them. So, I've taken empower healing, and mass cures, and all the healing enhancements I can. I'm also an Elven Favored Soul with the undying line, and I have scimitar proficiency, and the TWF line. Since I'm a TR, I've got the cash to spend on REALLY nice scimitars, and I have about 20 of them in my inventory. I even took OTWF so I can dual-wield scimitars. Which is just scary.

As I level up, I find myself replacing less useful lower level spells. So, for example, I'll probably get rid of cure moderate wounds shortly, and pick up something different. Now that I have resurrect, I can get rid of raise, etc. Only group buff I have is prot. from evil.

It's not unheard of for me to end a quest by both keeping everyone alive - AND having the most kills. Admittedly, if there is a really good DPS barbarian or fighter in the group, I can't keep up. But I'm usually always in the top 3 - my cleric was ALWAYS last.


As a cleric, my role was to basically buff the hell out of everyone, and then basically kept an eye on everyone's health bar. My cleric was slow, couldn't jump for ****, and got lost a lot, because I had a hard time keeping up.

My FvS, OTOH, has a Jump over 20, deals a TON of pain, AND can keep everyone alive. The main difference, I find, is that I am weakest when the proverbial stuff hits the fan - I can NOT heal as fast as my cleric can. The cooldown timers on a FvS are just much slower.

I do really miss turn undead, too. It is a really nice ability, even if it does become seriously useless at end game.

[clkpacker]

And saying that spell points dont matter in determining how good a healer is, is just plain wrong.

This is true. The good healer is the one who can do more with less. The ridiculous amount of SP a FvS gets encourages wastefulness. Clerics learn to prioritize and actually manage their SP. FvS has more leeway to screw up; clerics have to be perfect. </cleric stan>

My cleric is within spitting distance of 2000 sp, and that has been more than enough in everything short of situations like an Epic Chrono gone really, really wrong. And is those situations, the FvS chug pots too.

[bryanmeerkat]

Yes you could do this but as a melee cleric having charisma is your best weapon IMHO , having divine might II or III will help out your dps while still having a decent str and con to go with it plus you get the benefit of having more turns this way as well because without them where does your RS go

This is also true . It was more a response to the silliness of saying that "you should go FVS , because you can choose to put your stats into melee stats and then you will be good at melee ."

[Nospheratus]

The blue bar is absolutely irrelevant on how good a healer is...

I have solo-healed EVERY raid, including epics, with my cleric (apart from edq) with his 2100 sps and using 0 (zero) pots!... I also had a FvS tell me that I was getting damaged faster than he could heal me - a ~900 hps barb that died in epic oob... And the truth is, I get a lot of FvS healing the said barb for less than 400 with the heal spell where a cleric would be healing near 700.

Tbh, FvS are HUGELY overrated on how good they heal. Clerics do it better without doubt.

FvS do other things better, but they def are not better healers! Especially not because of their bigger sps number.


Just my opinion...

[Kamo]

The blue bar is absolutely irrelevant on how good a healer is...

I have solo-healed EVERY raid, including epics, with my cleric (apart from edq) with his 2100 sps and using 0 (zero) pots!... I also had a FvS tell me that I was getting damaged faster than he could heal me - a ~900 hps barb that died in epic oob... And the truth is, I get a lot of FvS healing the said barb for less than 400 with the heal spell where a cleric would be healing near 700.

Tbh, FvS are HUGELY overrated on how good they heal. Clerics do it better without doubt.

FvS do other things better, but they def are not better healers! Especially not because of their bigger sps number.


Just my opinion...

ABSOLUTLEY irrelevant, i understand that people would aruge that you dont need 3000, but absolutley? Ok based on that comment im a great healer with 600 sp

[Sarisa]

I think Vulkoor (drow only) gives shortsword prof? Lord of the blades gives greatsword (wf only), Sovereign host longswords, Silver flame longbows, Undying court scimis (elf only). And yep, I forgot that Clerics can use a turn to grant themselves (or anyone, I think) those proficiencies until... logout (?), but it's not exactly the same thing, AND FvS get additional specialization enhancements for up to +2 to damage rolls.

The faith based turning enhancements give +1 to hit and proficiency. You are correct, the proficiency can be granted to anybody, and lasts until logout.

In order for a cleric to match the damage enhancements FvS's get on their specialized weapons, they would need to take Divine Might and use turns to give themselves higher damage. DM only increases damage, not to-hit, and only for a minute per use. It does, however, work on any weapon type, while FvS's enhancements only work on their faith's favoured weapon. Even with Radiant Servant giving your turn regeneration, using turns to power Divine Might will reduce your overall healing capability in long quests.

In general, a FvS is a better overall melee. A Cleric would have to build themselves appropriately, and make some tough choices on stat spreads. To get a viable Divine Might, you have to devote a lot of base and tome stats toward Charisma, making a battle cleric's build look more like a Paladin build than a FvS's. That involves 3 important stats (str/con/cha), plus having enough wisdom to reach 19 with equipment, tomes, and enhancements by level 17. The cost is very little viable CC, and little room for metamagic feats besides Extend and Quicken. A melee FvS requires less stat choices, and is less equipment dependent to be able to function.

[jwdaniels]

ABSOLUTLEY irrelevant, i understand that people would aruge that you dont need 3000, but absolutley? Ok based on that comment im a great healer with 600 sp

You could be an amazing healer with 600 SP - for an at-level Tear of Dakhaan group.

[Twerpp]

Maybe if someone posted some melee cleric builds that are better than melee FvS builds we could clear this nonsense up

[jwdaniels]

Maybe if someone posted some melee cleric builds that are better than melee FvS builds we could clear this nonsense up

I don't think anyone has tried to make that argument, because it would be silly.

[Pape_27]

I was going to build my TR2 toon into a cleric that could solo and that would include some melee. I don't need to be a melee all-star but I would need to be able to kill something with a weapon. Would I be better off making a FvS? I really like the burst for free healin or for damging undead. I like the turn attempts also. Are you guys saying a FvS would be a much better choice? Don't think of this as a toon that once I get level 20 I will be good for raids. DR 10 at lvl 20 means nothing. The day I hit 20 I will be TRing again. I love the 1-20 game.

imo, the best bet would be to take FvS for at least one of your TR lives. The simple reason is the past life feat for FvS is better than the Cleric past life feat. If you plan on maxing out your wisdom, it doesnt make sense not to.

+1 to Spell Pen checks and +20 sp (FvS) vs +1 to Conjuration spell DC's and 1 more turn attempt (Cl). The +1 to all spell pen checks is much better imo. The conjuration spells for a divine caster really arent all that hot, with the exception of comet fall.

As for melee, if you want to stick to the cleric class for its versatility and the aura, You can build a cleric that will melee quite well, starting with a base 12 cha. Using a +2 tome and the two Cleric Charisma enhancements, nets you Cleric Diving Might II (+4 to damage). If you have the extra build points, that could easily be pushed to Divine Might III, for a sacred +6 damage bonus. starting with a 14 Cha (2 enhancements, +2 tome).


_

[der_kluge]

The blue bar is absolutely irrelevant on how good a healer is...

I have solo-healed EVERY raid, including epics, with my cleric (apart from edq) with his 2100 sps and using 0 (zero) pots!... I also had a FvS tell me that I was getting damaged faster than he could heal me - a ~900 hps barb that died in epic oob... And the truth is, I get a lot of FvS healing the said barb for less than 400 with the heal spell where a cleric would be healing near 700.

Tbh, FvS are HUGELY overrated on how good they heal. Clerics do it better without doubt.

FvS do other things better, but they def are not better healers! Especially not because of their bigger sps number.


Just my opinion...

Not disagreeing with you, but my guess is those FvS who couldn't heal your barb probably didn't bother taking any healing enhancements. My 14th level FvS can already crit Heal for 500+, so I've no doubt I'll be on par with my cleric at end game in terms of numbers. It's the speed I won't be able to match as easily.

[bryanmeerkat]

Cleric 17 /monk 2 /fighter 1

h1 khopesh

m1 toughness
m2 2weapon fighter

f1 power attack

1 extend
3 maximise
6 empower healing
9 quicken
12 improved crit
15 improve 2wf
18 greater 2wf

str 16+3
dex 15
con 14
int 8
wis 14
cha 14+2



Radiant Servant and Divine Might 3 , human improved recovery , human str

Evasion , khopesh would compensate for not having damage lines like fvs .

Shouldnt need to stop hiting to cast heals as frequently as FVS .

No wings , no dr ,