Devs: Please stop putting non-combat effects and bonuses on melee weapons

[Carpone]

Examples:

Epic Cutthroat's Smallblade: Hide +15, Move Silently +15.

Epic Timeblade: Feather Falling, Freedom of Movement.

I'd rather have a Red augment slot, or any other effect thats actually combat focused. Armor slots are much more appropriate for non-combat effects.

[Anneliese]

Putting them on weapons lowers their usefulness, therefore allowing for more powerful effects.

Example: Putting freedom of movement on an armor item is unlikely to happen, unless it is hard to get that item. Most people will never own even a single of such an item.

But if you put it on a weapon, it is still desireable to farm the rare items, while still allowing many people to obtain the effect.

[Coldin]

Examples:

Epic Cutthroat's Smallblade: Hide +15, Move Silently +15.

Epic Timeblade: Feather Falling, Freedom of Movement.

I'd rather have a Red augment slot, or any other effect thats actually combat focused. Armor slots are much more appropriate for non-combat effects.

I actually like the hide and move silently on the Smallblade. It will be nice to have as an off-hand weapon on my Assassin without having to worry about equipping those skill items when I want to sneak.

[LookingForABentoBox]

The Epic Timeblade does have a red slot and doublestrike on it, so I don't know what you mean by "would rather" it has combat effects. In any event, I think it's nice to have useful effects on atypical slots, weapon slots included.

[Thlargir]

I actually like the hide and move silently on the Smallblade. It will be nice to have as an off-hand weapon on my Assassin without having to worry about equipping those skill items when I want to sneak.

This! and...

Non-combat functionality has other benefits:

"flavour": Eric Stumblebum the Epic Paladin picks up an epic Timeblade to make up for his 8 dex while also laying waste to foes, and

"comic relief" - Eric, on his way to HoX enters the sub and switches to his Maul of Superior Skellie Smacking for the coming corridor battle only to promptly fall to the bottom of the sub after taking his first leap...

[Missing_Minds]

random stuff means options. Maybe not useful for you, but other people.

[Angelus_dead]

I'd rather have a Red augment slot, or any other effect thats actually combat focused.

And I'd prefer if all my Holy weapons changed into Holy Burst Wounding Burst Puncturing. But that won't happen either.

The truth is that non-combat bonuses on weapons are non-combat bonuses on weapons. Smart devs treat that as just another bonus: they know Hide +15 doesn't make the Smallblade any better at fighting, but nonetheless it's another benefit to players who might otherwise need to devote an inventory slot to a Cloak of Elvenkind.

Armor slots are much more appropriate for non-combat effects.

Non-combat effects on armor slots are much less likely to be usable, as the switching delay interferes with applying the benefit.

[Crazyfruit]

I like having featherfall on a sword. It's nice never forgetting I have it equipped unlike my other items "oops"

Sure is a waste of nice art tho :\

[sirgog]

The Epic Timeblade does have a red slot and doublestrike on it, so I don't know what you mean by "would rather" it has combat effects. In any event, I think it's nice to have useful effects on atypical slots, weapon slots included.

Epic Timeblade is a really mixed item however - it's DPS is well under that of comparable Shroud weapons, the Improved Paralyzing procs more Earthgrab weapons do but is a much less powerful effect, and so really it's only worth using in the rare quests that we are chain dispelled and held/webbed, and even in those places (mainly Coal Chamber and epic OOB) you'd rather have the min level 10 Kundarak Delving Boots and equip a better weapon.

I'm fine with seeing utility effects on weapons, as long as the weapon doesn't sacrifice so much DPS that it's not worth equipping. Shroud weapons got this balance pretty right - on a triple positive maul you craft as an undead-beater, you get to choose between Holy Blast for a small amount of extra damage, or 30% Healing Amplification, or exceptional +2 to a stat. 30% Healing Amp is a potent utility effect (IMO far stronger than undispellable FOM), and comes at a reasonable price to DPS on that weapon. But using Epic Timeblade instead of an Earthgrab Khopesh (the closest equivalent weapon I can think of) is too much of a DPS hit for the utility.

[Carpone]

Putting them on weapons lowers their usefulness, therefore allowing for more powerful effects.

Every item has a budget and every effect costs a certain amount. Adding non-combat effects to weapons just bloats the item without making it more desirable.

There's also a method to the design madness when it comes to effects and slots in D&D. DDO devs just seem to be throwing that to the wind with facepalmworthy effects like Feather Falling, Hide and Move Silently on weapons. C'mon devguys, create some melee weapon itemization worthy of being called epic! You've already met your quota of creating subpar epic items.

[Angelus_dead]

Every item has a budget and every effect costs a certain amount.

That is exactly untrue. In reality, the developers are smart enough to know that a +15 Hide bonus does not count against the budget of a weapon loot.

[Missing_Minds]

That is exactly untrue. In reality, the developers are smart enough to know that a +15 Hide bonus does not count against the budget of a weapon loot.

Other than the QA required to make certain the item in question is preforming as intended.

[Angelus_dead]

Other than the QA required to make certain the item in question is preforming as intended.

An "itemization budget" in game design is quite a different thing from the staffing budget of a business enterprise.

[Emili]

I used a plain timeblade as a swapable ff item for a little while while a TR until I was high enough lvl to wear my ff ring of springing (a lvl 15 item at the time). Come to fighting I used real weapons though mainly my lvl 8 GS.

I do like some weapons with non-combat attributes on them ... like my Epic Elyd blade on my spell singer bard - she does melee quite a bit btw and is her off-hand weapon with her earth grab rapier in her main hand, and is her main hand weapon when her lit II or sould trap sword in her off-hand. +7 cha you'd really prefer on a wearable and most like is what you have or have eye on. Superior Devotion VI, Silver, Alchemical, Songblade, Anthem, Empty Red Augment Slot made it feasible.

For a straight up melee however I am not crazy bout non-combat attributes on a weapon... My assasin sometimes uses the epic Phiarlan spy dagger (+6 Dagger (Base dmg: 2d4), Acid Burst, Deception, Dusk, Enfeebling, Empty Violet Augment Slot) in off hand... it's cool, I helped put the manager in eBoB in autocrit with it. But for the most part a Lit II is in her off-hand.

Time blade and quite a few epic weapons are a tad under-powered as is ... the nitch weapons are ok but a few I really do not see as having a nitch even...

Epic Dynastic Falcata (+6 Khopesh (Base dmg: 2d8, Attack Mod & Damage Mod: Charisma), Charisma +7, Adamantine, True Law, Axiomatic Burst, Empty Red Augment Slot) <- really first glance one may think this aimed at a pally but realize pallys are going to be Str based for the most part not cha so only one I could think of is maybe a spell singer bard with a khopesh feat? ... Adamantine and Law do not go well together either most golems are nuetral and maruts lawful... I'm still clueless who'd bother to put the effort to craft that one.

Epic Midnight Greetings (+6 Kukri (Base dmg: 2d4, 18-20/x2, Damage Mod: Intelligence), Deception, Finesse, Disintegration, Assasin's Training, Empty Red Augment Slot) Who would use this? I huess the disintegration and interesting toy, deception good for an assasin, and granting them use of it because it's not a typical proficency is ok... but is a bloody Kukri with 5 average damage and a red slot. Why put finesse on it, a dex based assasin would have the feat and a str based one would not care. I cannot imagine any assasin going out of their way to craft this not even look at it.


Weapons are the item we change up the most ... swap in a vorp for upper mid lvl or a heavy lit II or a weighted, vertigo or what not - we constantly swap them.

[Malithar45]

Every item has a budget and every effect costs a certain amount. Adding non-combat effects to weapons just bloats the item without making it more desirable.

If this was WoW, you'd be spot on. If you were referring to randomly generated weapons, you'd be spot on.

Yet, you're not. I'd be interested in seeing what you believe this budgeting system to be, because things like Epic Garos' Malice and Epic Kron'zak's Cruelty sure don't match up to things such as Epic Antique Great Axe, Epic Sword of Shadows, Epic Chimera's Fang, etc. Even other gear like Tharne's Goggles, Epic Goggles of Time Sensing, Epic Charged Gauntlets, Epic Cloak of Night, Dragontouched armor, etc follow no such budgeting of stats. Not everything in this game is created equally. As has been pointed out, Dev's (as of late..) have been smart enough to know that tacking on flavorful effects shouldn't effect the DPS potential of the weapon. You used the Smallblade as an example, and while its still a tad behind GS on bleedable mobs, its still a pretty solid weapon. As far as Epic Timeblade, they shoulda gave it more DPS potential, but it turned out to be pretty much just a utility weapon. Not really that huge of a problem with such existing, but whether they should be epics or not...eh, that could be argued.

Regardless, to think that stats like these pull from some sort of budgeting system is just plain untrue. And funny enough, both have red slots (know Timeblade does, I'd assume one of the upgrades of the Smallblade adds one) I believe. What more would you like added for your pleasure?

[sirgog]

If this was WoW, you'd be spot on. If you were referring to randomly generated weapons, you'd be spot on.

Yet, you're not. I'd be interested in seeing what you believe this budgeting system to be, because things like Epic Garos' Malice and Epic Kron'zak's Cruelty sure don't match up to things such as Epic Antique Great Axe, Epic Sword of Shadows, Epic Chimera's Fang, etc. Even other gear like Tharne's Goggles, Epic Goggles of Time Sensing, Epic Charged Gauntlets, Epic Cloak of Night, Dragontouched armor, etc follow no such budgeting of stats. Not everything in this game is created equally. As has been pointed out, Dev's (as of late..) have been smart enough to know that tacking on flavorful effects shouldn't effect the DPS potential of the weapon. You used the Smallblade as an example, and while its still a tad behind GS on bleedable mobs, its still a pretty solid weapon. As far as Epic Timeblade, they shoulda gave it more DPS potential, but it turned out to be pretty much just a utility weapon. Not really that huge of a problem with such existing, but whether they should be epics or not...eh, that could be argued.

Regardless, to think that stats like these pull from some sort of budgeting system is just plain untrue. And funny enough, both have red slots (know Timeblade does, I'd assume one of the upgrades of the Smallblade adds one) I believe. What more would you like added for your pleasure?

Timeblade would need quite a bit more to be worth using. At the very least, an increased crit profile and increased base damage.

Were it 2d12 damage with a Khopesh crit profile, it would still be quite some way behind a Lit 2 Khopesh in DPS, but might be close enough that the powerful defensive utility of Improved Paralyzing and FoM might make it worth using. Alternately a large increase in the doublestrike rate (to perhaps 12%) might make it worthwhile.

[andbr22]

I think Dynastic falcata and Elyd edge can be interesting weapons in hand of Spell singer (maxed Cha).
You can use them to beat relativly well epic enemies that cannot be holded (bosses in eBoB, or eTT), and have high HP.
Dynastic falcata will become powerful weapon agains chaotic enemies even with -4 to hit.
Elyd edge is specially created for bards it can become ultimate spell singer weapon against heavy AC enemies (even if you gona gigle them)

Of course against trash held mobs probably beter would be useing dreamspliter / StaffOfShadows

Midnight greeting is strange weapon. More than 90% of assasin are strenght built with low (but dependable) Int. Usually Dex is also 17 (with tome). This weapon would work in hands of... Repeater Rouge, that have to melee (not often sight but happens) High Dex (repeater HIT), and High Int (repeater DMG). Of course there are other weapons that would use those advantages without -4 hit disadvantage (epic Zephyr, epic staff of Nat Gann (easy devil beater)).

Still these weapons are etreamly nishe / situational.