Evoker Cleric?

[pie2655]

Clerics seem to hav some nice offensive spells later in the game. So i was thinking of possibly making an Evoker Cleric. Im not very experienced with cleric and other divine classes so im kind of clueless. Is this stupid? Is this even possible? and would i be better to just be a healer?
Im not very experienced with cleric and other divine classes so im kind of clueless.
Thanks in advance if you have a good anwer.

[erikbozelie]

they get alot of nice ones,

and alot of those substitude the arcane versions, only... slower.

finger of death = destruction.
charms = symbol of persuasion
mass hold monster mass = symbol of stunning

its only problem is that you need an high caster level to kill spell resistance, and need an VERY high wisdom to achief an high DC to beat theyre saves

here we go:

20 cast levels + 3 enhancements + 2 item + 2 feats(not sure)? = 27 (+6 past lives if you have)
DC = max wisdom 48(+19 stat) +10 base + 2 school focus + 2 item +9 heighten = 42-ish

enough to be dangerious.

[Khimberlhyte]

Clerics seem to hav some nice offensive spells later in the game. So i was thinking of possibly making an Evoker Cleric. Im not very experienced with cleric and other divine classes so im kind of clueless. Is this stupid? Is this even possible? and would i be better to just be a healer?
Im not very experienced with cleric and other divine classes so im kind of clueless.
Thanks in advance if you have a good anwer.

Cleric build catalogue 2010. Offensive casting cleric. Just because it makes your life so much easier, I'd recommend finding room in your feat list for Empower Healing at some point to take Radiant Servant. You can still heal almost as well as any healbot - there isn't a big difference, any cleric can heal.

You only have to worry about one stat as a cleric (wisdom). As a FvS, you need max wisdom, and enough charisma to be able to cast spells (charisma of 19 for level 9 spells, which you can get with a starting Cha of 12 or lower, depending on gear, enhancements, and tomes). Of course, more Cha on a cleric is handy too, and with the extra SP on a FvS, there are advantages to both types of divine casters. Being able to swap spells is handy - just as many recommend rolling a wizard before a sorc, it might benefit you to roll up a cleric before considering a FvS.

[Fishcatch22]

A problem IME with offensive caster clerics is that they just aren't that popular in groups, since many are perceived as bad healers, even if they have Emp. healing and RS. People are going to think you're going to focus on killing things, and just let them die, similar to how many poorly played Battleclerics operate. Make very sure you can still fully raidheal (take Emp healing; Quicken and Maximize are already givens), or you're just playing a poorer version of a WF wizard. Don't say you're an offensive caster cleric, and just throw some Destros and Implosions around when they aren't looking. They will already expect you to lay down BBs. Make sure to fit in spell pen and Greater spell pen.

[pie2655]

Well healing bores me, and clerics ge tnice offensive spells. So basically i was thinking of filling the caster role in the group. Id be a backup healer. Only healing when ABSOLUTELY necesarry, so i wouldnt filll the healer roll.
Is this just stupid?

[Jaid314]

People are going to think you're going to focus on killing things, and just let them die, similar to how many poorly played Battleclerics operate.

while they undoubtedly will blame you, i'd like to point out that *they* let *themselves* die if they build their character to need a babysitter in anything other than full-blown boss fight situations. need heals when fighting sor'jek in SoS? fine (and hey, as an added benefit you're also nuking sor'jek most likely).

need heals in waterworks normal so badly you can't last to the end of the fight? that isn't the cleric's fault. perhaps you should not have rolled a character that can't take care of themselves for a few seconds.

[issiana]

Well healing bores me, and clerics ge tnice offensive spells. So basically i was thinking of filling the caster role in the group. Id be a backup healer. Only healing when ABSOLUTELY necesarry, so i wouldnt filll the healer roll.
Is this just stupid?

imo your setting yourself up for a /fail.
sorry to say it but you'll soon find out that its true.

Dont get me wrong, my main is cleric, and i've being in love with the class since release, but nearly everytime a group sees that cleric icon the first thing they think is... ok to zerg and play stupid as we got a healer.
It dosent matter how many times you say what you say about how your've built your cleric, or how you want to play YOUR cleric, the general population of the game will soon make you hate what you have, and you'll be either soloing eveything or dropping the build.

In a guild situation.. well that changes everything and it'll probly be accepted, just dont expect to pug and be allowed to play that build else you'll soon find your the only one alive in the group with other ppl hating you for not being their "personal healbot".

That aside what your proposing would work well, and its part of the reason i love the class so much - we can do so much. But I wouldnt try this in a pug situation - even a guild one i'd be cautious over as well as sooner or later someone is gonna start expecting you to drop heal scrolls on them .

[AndyD47]

I love playing/grouping with offensive casting clerics/FvS.

Very versatile and you could probably solo most bosses you could care to with a beastly BB.

Just don't neglect your ability to heal completely,as was mentioned RS is really good for healing/saving mana for casting...RS is the enabler to your sloppy drunk party animal casting cleric.

If you wanted to forgo healing in its entirety you'd probably be better off playing a wizard, for the simple fact that they get way more feats for spell focuses/penetration and such.

[Ashbinder]

Here's the trouble of offensive divine casting.

Symbol spells are your biggest ally for CC. However they have a 90 second cooldown and all share the same timer. This means you can only choose persuasion or stunning every minute and a half. Compare this to Archmage who has a 6 second hold mass cooldown.

Wizards get extra feats to spend on DC enhancements. They get prestige enhancements to raise their DCs too.

Compare that to a cleric who is feat starved. You'll definitely want:
Toughness
Quicken
Empower Healing
Maximize

That's half your feats gone. For CC and nuking you'll want:
Heighten
Spell Focus: X
Greater Spell Focus: X
Mental Toughness

Pretty tight squeeze for your feats. You're lacking any spell pen feats too. Also you can only raise the DC of one school. Evocation? BB and Implosion. Necromancy? Destruction and Energy Drain. Enchantment? Greater Command and Symbol of Persuasion. Only one of these will be maxxed to the level of a poorly geared Wizard.

[pie2655]

There is some really nice higher level gear that will give me greater spell focus: X
Also alot of commonly used wizard gear would work for an evoker cleric. but since most cleric are healbots they dont get those items usually.

[Fishcatch22]

That's why flat spell pen would be better over a school focus IMO. Mental Toughness is usually a given on most clerics. I agree that Heighten is your best bet fora purely offensive Meta, as your best bet for killing things later on is going to be one-shot kill spells like Destro and Implosion, as well as your Blade barrier. Besides Greater Command, Clerics don't have good CC to write home about. Don't forget to turn of Heighten if you are going to be mostly healing, as it affects healing spells as well (since they can be offensive against undead)

[Habreno]

I have a L17 cleric who I run as a healer/caster combination (with some melee capabilities should the proverbial **** hit the fan) and have absolutely no problem in PUGs. I don't tell people I am a caster/healer (I have 5 metas I run; four at once: Empower Healing, Maximize, Extend, and Heighten are all run at once; Quicken on an as-needed basis, plus have a Master Transmuter's Staff equipped for the +50% to all L6 and below spells (covers up to Blade Barrier, Cure Moderate Mass, and Heal, three of my favorite spells), plus a couple other goodies on that as well. Deathblock is always on almost every robe I wear for armor (can't hit a high enough AC to make that +5 Adamantine Full Plate worth it now; use the plate when running favor) plus a Greater Resist (Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Sonic) comboed with Deathblock.

I have spell resistances at about 30 with metas on and end up doing at least a tenth the kills, with wizards/sorcs at about 20-30%, rangers near my % if there is one, and melee takes everything else.

The great thing about a Cleric Caster is that although 99% of your spells have saves, there are a great variety of useful spells, even at high levels (heighten makes those L1/L2 spells very useful) that can take care of mobs in great efficency: Melees get Cometfalled (low Reflex save oftentimes on melees; bonus is Cometfall does damage as well ); rangers get held (they can be destroyed but hold + melee works much better than an outright destruction; if it takes you too long to kill a held enemy meleed, get a weapon that has a high crit damage for auto-crit enemies) but can be destroyed or cometfalled: they are generally situation-dependent as sometimes Harm + other instant-damage spells work best, even if they are returning fire; mages get destroyed. Don't give them a chance at casting: they can save on Holds as it's a Will save and that is by far their best save; Destruction is a Fort save and their worst save (Slay Living, while being another insta-kill spell that has a Fort save, it also has a target radius of about the same as Implosion and is not worth the spell slot unless you can get buddy-buddy with the mages or Destruction is on cooldown) so it is best on them.

To summarize:
Class: Worst save for them/medium/best

Melee: Reflex/Will/Fortitude
Range: Will/Fortitude/Reflex <- Most situational-dependent enemy class
Mage: Fortitude/Reflex/Will

Your best spell choices:

Fortitude: Implosion, Destruction (L9 and L7 respectively)
Reflex: Cometfall/Blade Barrier (Both L6, situation-dependent: close up: Blade Barrier. Far away: Cometfall)
Will: Hold (L2, heighten it) although there are probably others you can use.

[NaturalHazard]

.

I have spell resistances at about 30 with metas on and end up doing at least a tenth the kills, with wizards/sorcs at about 20-30%, rangers near my % if there is one, and melee takes everything else.

.

wow you must be running with some seriously gimp to the gill rangers if they are only getting 10% of the party kills, normally on my ranger im at the top of the kill chart or at least in 2nd or 3rd place, well up there.

[Zilta]

wow you must be running with some seriously gimp to the gill rangers if they are only getting 10% of the party kills, normally on my ranger im at the top of the kill chart or at least in 2nd or 3rd place, well up there.

ah killcounts, proving that you can contribute 1% of the damage and still be recognized as a killer since they were introduced :P

[NaturalHazard]

ah killcounts, proving that you can contribute 1% of the damage and still be recognized as a killer since they were introduced :P

lol, well thats about true, because in high non epic quests im normally duel weilding vorpals hahaha ive had a barb curse at me because I was vorping things like mad and he didnt get to see all his high pretty numbers cause things would die too fast.

in epic swinging 2 picks really fast seems to help as well, but yeah rangers are not uber tops dps, but not as bad as some people make out.

[NaturalHazard]

ZOMG!!!!! a cleric that does more than sit make and nanny bot our red bars???!!!!! heresy!!!!!!!!!!! burn him at the stake!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zilta]

only if he weighs as much as a duck

[NaturalHazard]

only if he weighs as much as a duck

what particular species of duck?

[Zilta]

the africanized duck, close cousin to the swallow

[Habreno]

wow you must be running with some seriously gimp to the gill rangers if they are only getting 10% of the party kills, normally on my ranger im at the top of the kill chart or at least in 2nd or 3rd place, well up there.

Or I can be running with some pretty kick-ass melees who kill stuff before the rangers have time to blink