Are elves just a flavour race now?

[NaturalHazard]

Im just struggling to think of what elves bring to the table thats so great and makes them stand out from the other races? AA? some people say that AA is just a flavour class? maybe one thats got some really great burst damage potential? But other than the +2 to hit and damage with bows and racial access to AA what else really?

[r3dl4nce]

favored soul 18 / monk 2 elf

[Snormal]

When scimitars get made into ki weapons for Valenar monks, elves will be a solid monk/paladin multiclass.

[donfilibuster]

oh, but they have flavor, elves taste like chicken

[Anthorin]

oh, but they have flavor, elves taste like chicken

How disappointing. I had hoped that cooked, they would smell of bacon.

[NaturalHazard]

How disappointing. I had hoped that cooked, they would smell of bacon.

anyone tried that chicken bacon? apparently it contain less fat than the real thing? sorta like elves? no tasty junk in those trunks .

[NaturalHazard]

When scimitars get made into ki weapons for Valenar monks, elves will be a solid monk/paladin multiclass.

This would be cool, just too bad on the hp

[unbongwah]

I like elves - or at least I keep trying to put together good elf builds - but were they ever NOT a "flavour race?" They're certainly not the minmaxer's choice. Heck, with the HE dilly enhs added, they don't even make the best AAs anymore.

[Loromir]

Im just struggling to think of what elves bring to the table thats so great and makes them stand out from the other races? AA? some people say that AA is just a flavour class? maybe one thats got some really great burst damage potential? But other than the +2 to hit and damage with bows and racial access to AA what else really?

Well, I am currently leveling a 18/2 Elf Fighter/Rogue with the Valenar line for Falchions and Rogue for evasion. I'm to lvl 7 right now, and am really liking him. It may be a flavor build, but he hits pretty hard with that falchion, and I expect him to only get better in Later levels.

We shall see.

[Emili]

Elves

• Started strong in ddo as an arcane min/max build Bard, Sorc and wizard - level cap 10 mana was to come by and sorc/wiz could actually get meaningful ac - and decent in some of the areas like rogue or ranger.
• When Drow were introduced Elves took a back seat to the "better elf" as some of the the players called them.
• Elves and drow both had the same enhancements at first.
• When 32 points introduced and enhancements openned elves fell into a nitch of rangers spec'd area for soloing DQ's.
• Enhancement system redone and openned up (four enhancements turned to many, weapons flavors added, etc...) Dwarves and Drow ruled.
• They lost even more ground as an arcane when WF immunities were fixed and Humans got adaptability (placing WF and humans back on the table)
• Mana became a non-issue plentiful with items introduced.
• As such elves never regained any area for themselves to excell.

[grodon9999]

This is going to sound really stupid . . . but I swear whenever I need to do something "Super Mario" on a toon, it's always easier on my elf.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Only race to have a PRE.
Full blown AA with less than 20 Rgr lvls.

Longsword/Rapier or Scimitar/Falchion enhancements.
Bow enhancements

More Wiz SP.

Displacement (and Invis) Dragon Mark!

Clr/Pal can raise dead at lvl 6.


A few other things, but those are the best IMO.

[k1ngp1n]

Only race to have a PRE.
Full blown AA with less than 20 Rgr lvls.

Helf has it too, and is better

Longsword/Rapier or Scimitar/Falchion enhancements.
Bow enhancements

All of which are lackluster weapons in the current state-of-game for people who worry about these things.

More Wiz SP.

Have you seen how much you actually get? It's pathetic.

Displacement (and Invis) Dragon Mark!

Clickies.

Clr/Pal can raise dead at lvl 6.

True 'nuf, once per 5 mins.

A few other things, but those are the best IMO.

I play only -2 con races, btw.

[Vissarion]

Are elves min-maxed godliness? No, they are not.

Does this make them only a 'flavor' race? They are certainly suboptimal for some classes, but like Drow, there are others where they work nicely.

A good example (since I recently made one, and since I have no experience with AA) would be an Elven Paladin. Unless you're going for 17 CHA at expense of STR on a Drow, they end up with the same stats on a TWF (16 STR, 16 DEX, 12 CON, 16 CHA), and with Scimmies (plus enhancements) the difference vis-a-vis Khopeshes on Humans is marginal.

I've read the argument that since Scimmies are x2 crit multipliers, that makes Elves inherently gimp, especially in epics. But anyone can make up Holy Sword Heavy Picks or dualwield Maiming Rocksplitters/Earthgrab Picks. :P

Would I roll up an Elven Monk/Barb/Rogue? No; in my mind there are better races for those classes. But I could see Elven Pallies and Elven Scimmy Kensei being very strong options.

[k1ngp1n]

Holy Sword Heavy Picks

Not exactly sure that'd be a good choice for epics.

[Cold_Stele]

Once you work out how much extra damage a HOrc hits for, you'll have your answer.

Sad the devs have let the enhancement system get so crazily out of control

(answer is HOrcs hit for up to ~12/13pts more per swing with falchions IIRC)

[Kza]

Cant find out a single build i want to play as elf tbh.

[Vissarion]

Not exactly sure that'd be a good choice for epics.

Yeah, depends on which epic. Hence why I included the Rocksplitter/Earthgrab option as well.

I'll probably make sure to have both categories available for the variety of epic trash.

[Seamonkeysix]

Cant find out a single build i want to play as elf tbh.

I have a 20 elf, AA. I can say that although it isn't THE most powerful toon I have, it is fun, viable, and pretty deadly in the right situations. The elven line for damage enhancements helps. With the right gear, you can easily hit Strength in the 40s, Dex in the 30s, and Con in the mid 20s range.

I sit on right around 500 HP most of the time and with a Lit2 Bow, Slaying arrows, and decent GTWF sets, you can contribute, have fun and be about the most DPS of any AA out there. Keep in mind that while you get many benefits from Helf that you don't get on elf, Helf doesn't get the elven enhancements for attacks with bows, long swords, rapiers, scimitars, ect...

Again, elf will never be a "min/max" dream, but some of the builds out there can utilize some of the bonuses elves get and be quite viable at end game. The main drawback is epic content without the right gear. 40 strength isn't all that impressive, even with full BAB. But if you are up against your FEs, and so forth, you will still rack up the kills and nobody will complain.

[Torebro]

Are elves min-maxed godliness? No, they are not.

A good example (since I recently made one, and since I have no experience with AA) would be an Elven Paladin. Unless you're going for 17 CHA at expense of STR on a Drow, they end up with the same stats on a TWF (16 STR, 16 DEX, 12 CON, 16 CHA), and with Scimmies (plus enhancements) the difference vis-a-vis Khopeshes on Humans is marginal.

Sorry to disappoint you here, but let's have a look at some math. I am assuming Improved Crit:Slash, blank greensteel weapon, bloodstone and a damage modifier of +30 (str + enhancements + items (like claw set) + feats (like Weapon Spec) etc.. https://forums-old.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299620 had +50 and more, so 30 is rather low.

\begin{math}
Elf: 1*0 (no hit) + 13*(4.5 (avg damage GS Scimitar) + 30 + 2 (elf Enhancement)) + 6 * 2 * (4.5 + 30 + 2 + 6 (bloodstone)) = 984.5 damage on 20 hits vs normal trash mob 0% fort.

Human: 1 * 0 + 15 * (5.5 (GS Khopesh) + 30) + 4 * 3 * (5.5 + 30 + 6) = 1030,5
\end{math}

So a human will do 46 damage more in 20 attacks against an elf who invested 6 Action Points into damage. With a +40 damage modifier the difference is 1234.5 (Elf w/Scimitar) to 1300.5.

Also a human paladin would look like 15 Str, 15 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Cha (and putting +1 human adaptability in str (2 Action points)) is getting 20 more hp, 2 skill points instead of one, human improved recovery, human versatility and more. The drow also has +1 Skill point and Spell Resistance.

So, concerning paladins, elves are a flavor race.

Regards Tore