So a RL buddy player is incorrect, can I get some community support before I rage?

[JoeyWMD]

So I'm a second TR Bard/Rogue my friend is a first TR Wiz/Rog (been same class both lives for him) He is also a "pc gamer" so he has that typical "I'm better than everyone attitude."


I've been playing since F2P Beta he's been playing since Mod9 and F2P went live. Now what he does, is look on the forums and take builds from it till he gets comfortable with the idea of them, for the sake of this we'll call it roughly level 12 before he decides to stray from the build he has and do his own thing with it (Which is fine.)

So this is my frist 2nd TR I'm doing it slowly because my static out leveled me because I have a life, and I am slowly going at my first melee oriented build.


Anyways, he insists that I'm gimped and know nothing about what I'm doing with my WC/Rog because "you only splash rogue for trap abilities on an int class" Meaning he's attempting to make himself sound superior. Which is all fine and good have at it I've been through 2 other lives Sorc-FvS and now Bard and have done more than my fair share of being "uber."


Doing my job as a Healer/Evoker and a Nuker What I'm looking for is someone to stop me from just raging at an idiot, he insists that my build is gimped because of the rogue levels, me being smart and playing the game and doing research before I TR'd into a class that wasn't the what I started as have told him he's wrong a lot, all he does at this point is stop talking and leave. (I'm pretty sure he can't get it past himself that he in fact is a failure.)







(Ton of text, if you get to this point you win a cookie.)

[k1ngp1n]

So I'm a second TR Bard/Rogue my friend is a first TR Wiz/Rog (been same class both lives for him) He is also a "pc gamer" so he has that typical "I'm better than everyone attitude."


I've been playing since F2P Beta he's been playing since Mod9 and F2P went live. Now what he does, is look on the forums and take builds from it till he gets comfortable with the idea of them, for the sake of this we'll call it roughly level 12 before he decides to stray from the build he has and do his own thing with it (Which is fine.)

So this is my frist 2nd TR I'm doing it slowly because my static out leveled me because I have a life, and I am slowly going at my first melee oriented build.


Anyways, he insists that I'm gimped and know nothing about what I'm doing with my WC/Rog because "you only splash rogue for trap abilities on an int class" Meaning he's attempting to make himself sound superior. Which is all fine and good have at it I've been through 2 other lives Sorc-FvS and now Bard and have done more than my fair share of being "uber."


Doing my job as a Healer/Evoker and a Nuker What I'm looking for is someone to stop me from just raging at an idiot, he insists that my build is gimped because of the rogue levels, me being smart and playing the game and doing research before I TR'd into a class that wasn't the what I started as have told him he's wrong a lot, all he does at this point is stop talking and leave. (I'm pretty sure he can't get it past himself that he in fact is a failure.)







(Ton of text, if you get to this point you win a cookie.)

Where's my cookie!?!?!?!

Bard/Rogue is an insanely useful combo. Two or three levels of Rogue in a Bard go a LONG way to both increasing survivabilty (via evasion) and utility. A bard/rogue can handle traps just fine as well due to the high skill points per level bards get - its not like traps are hard.

Trying not to sound like a jerk, but anyone who says splashing rogue levels into bard is bad is a nub. He may be right, and you might be 'gimped,' but its not because of the outright use of rogue levels.

[JoeyWMD]

Where's my cookie!?!?!?!

Bard/Rogue is an insanely useful combo. Two or three levels of Rogue in a Bard go a LONG way to both increasing survivabilty (via evasion) and utility. A bard/rogue can handle traps just fine as well due to the high skill points per level bards get - its not like traps are hard.

Trying not to sound like a jerk, but anyone who says splashing rogue levels into bard is bad is a nub. He may be right, and you might be 'gimped,' but its not because of the outright use of rogue levels.

+1 cookie, and I guess I should rephrase he says I'm gimped solely because I've splashed the rogue, as a matter of fact he refers to it as "2 levels of rog gimp." He refuses to believe that the slight DPS boost and trap ability is actually helpful. Not to mention, every time I've ran with him I lead the traps (just me getting to them first) and kills. I think he's caught on and has recently been going out of his way to FoD anything I touch, but I still wind up within 2-3 kills of him and coincidently 2-3 kills of lead on the quest. (my goal was to make a bard that lead kill counts and did it's job well thats why this is my reference.)

[Neversignup]

At the OP.... I gotta say 'cowboy up' a little mate. You seem to have the experience. the history and the research abilities to feel confident in your build. Apply some of that confidence to dealing with your 'RL buddy' and his opinions.

If you feel good about it and are happy playing your build, don't let someone ruin your gaming experience, no matter who they are.

[FlyingTurtle]

Stop playing with him if it bothers you so much.

Do I get a cookie for super wise excellent advice?

[Entelech]

So...if you're looking for advice, it's this: Have a talk with your friend, or else find a new one.

The issue I'm hearing is that you feel your friend is treating you poorly, and that's something you need to deal with in private, between the two of you. Being a jerk to your friend is uncool, regardless of whether you happen to be right or wrong about the subject of debate.

If you have different philosophies of character builds, that's fine. You can agree to disagree. But if you cannot treat each other respectfully, you're not really friends. And drama from the forums won't make the basic problem easier to resolve.

This is NOT about the game. Respect yourself, and you can face the situation one on one. The forum is full of harpies, drama junkies, and voyeurs, and they'll be glad to entertain themselves by getting involved, but they're unlikely to actually help the situation.

[Urvine]

So...if you're looking for advice, it's this: Have a talk with your friend, or else find a new one.

The issue I'm hearing is that you feel your friend is treating you poorly, and that's something you need to deal with in private, between the two of you. Being a jerk to your friend is uncool, regardless of whether you happen to be right or wrong about the subject of debate.

If you have different philosophies of character builds, that's fine. You can agree to disagree. But if you cannot treat each other respectfully, you're not really friends. And drama from the forums won't make the basic problem easier to resolve.

This is NOT about the game. Respect yourself, and you can face the situation one on one. The forum is full of harpies, drama junkies, and voyeurs, and they'll be glad to entertain themselves by getting involved, but they're unlikely to actually help the situation.

QFT

I was going to warp this into an elitist vs casuals thread just for kicks. But this post gave me a change of heart.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Anyways, he insists that I'm gimped and know nothing about what I'm doing with my WC/Rog because "you only splash rogue for trap abilities on an int class"

This is dead wrong. No wizard should gimp their spell pen, SP and lose a feat just for measly trap skills when 99% of traps can be walked past or avoided. No, the reason that splashing 2 rog on a wizard build is done is because it is a reasonable idea to pick up evasion which is an incredibly useful ability.

This is true for fighters, barbarians and many other builds. In fact, as far as warchanter goes the ONLY incentive to splash rather than going pure is to pick up evasion. Once you pick up evasion it opens other doors - TWF, intimidate, feats, HP etc.- but, if evasion doesn't interest you, then on a WC you should be pure.

Bards, rangers and wizards are the 3 classes well suited to splashing rogue for trap skills, it's fun, viable and the cost benefit analysis evens out pretty well. Tell your friend to jump in a lake and learn the game.

[wax_on_wax_off]

So...if you're looking for advice, it's this: Have a talk with your friend, or else find a new one.

The issue I'm hearing is that you feel your friend is treating you poorly, and that's something you need to deal with in private, between the two of you. Being a jerk to your friend is uncool, regardless of whether you happen to be right or wrong about the subject of debate.

If you have different philosophies of character builds, that's fine. You can agree to disagree. But if you cannot treat each other respectfully, you're not really friends. And drama from the forums won't make the basic problem easier to resolve.

This is NOT about the game. Respect yourself, and you can face the situation one on one. The forum is full of harpies, drama junkies, and voyeurs, and they'll be glad to entertain themselves by getting involved, but they're unlikely to actually help the situation.

Just no. There's no need to turn this into a hippy love convention where we all sit around in a circle and cry together. The OPs point of contention with his buddy is a factual one which can easily be resolved by looking at the cost-benefit analysis of the build choices; either it is viable or it isn't, how many and what composition of feelings that we have for one another doesn't change the truth of the matter.

DDO is what brings us together and it is perfectly ok to have argue/debate about particular play styles or the merits of certain build decisions. I've always taken the view that if I am a real friend to someone then I will point out that their build sucks as it is worse for them to find out later. Sometimes I cop some flack for this and sometime it prompts some heated discussions but it is always for the betterment of the game. For factual based arguments referring to the forums is an easy way to get the communities view on a topic and it is an effective strategy to find the truth in an argument.

The way to effectively debate an issue is to present an opinion, give an example and then back it up with evidence, or some combination of the above. It seems that the OP has a handle on this or at least he is working on the evidence part of the debate.

Good luck with it.

[Ungood]

you took bard levels? Yer gimped!

[JoeyWMD]

you took bard levels? Yer gimped!

I knew I should have never splashed that silly song singin class :/
Everyone else it's really more he thinks that the rogue levels completely gimp it.
I agree with the "cowboy up" because all he can really do is talk, I mean my build out does his any day.
Not to mention I could roll up a wiz/rog and be just plain better. I've told him this he gets mad cookies for all ( because i know you didnt really wanna give advice you just wanted delicious treats )

[Entelech]

This is dead wrong. No wizard should gimp their spell pen, SP and lose a feat just for measly trap skills when 99% of traps can be walked past or avoided. No, the reason that splashing 2 rog on a wizard build is done is because it is a reasonable idea to pick up evasion which is an incredibly useful ability.

This is true for fighters, barbarians and many other builds. In fact, as far as warchanter goes the ONLY incentive to splash rather than going pure is to pick up evasion. Once you pick up evasion it opens other doors - TWF, intimidate, feats, HP etc.- but, if evasion doesn't interest you, then on a WC you should be pure.

Bards, rangers and wizards are the 3 classes well suited to splashing rogue for trap skills, it's fun, viable and the cost benefit analysis evens out pretty well. Tell your friend to jump in a lake and learn the game.

Actually, I'm a fan of Stealth on my 2 Rogue 18 Wizard.

The difference in DC's and Spell Pen is a single Past Life versus a capstone Wiz 20, but the ability to sneak into range to FoD an enemy caster is priceless.

It's also great for retrieving the soulstones of arrogant zerging elitists.

[Entelech]

Just no. There's no need to turn this into a hippy love convention where we all sit around in a circle and cry together. The OPs point of contention with his buddy is a factual one which can easily be resolved by looking at the cost-benefit analysis of the build choices; either it is viable or it isn't, how many and what composition of feelings that we have for one another doesn't change the truth of the matter.

DDO is what brings us together and it is perfectly ok to have argue/debate about particular play styles or the merits of certain build decisions. I've always taken the view that if I am a real friend to someone then I will point out that their build sucks as it is worse for them to find out later. Sometimes I cop some flack for this and sometime it prompts some heated discussions but it is always for the betterment of the game. For factual based arguments referring to the forums is an easy way to get the communities view on a topic and it is an effective strategy to find the truth in an argument.

The way to effectively debate an issue is to present an opinion, give an example and then back it up with evidence, or some combination of the above. It seems that the OP has a handle on this or at least he is working on the evidence part of the debate.

Good luck with it.

+1 Rep.

I totally agree that debating the merits of build choices is OK. I enjoy a good debate as much as the next person and more than many. After all, if we all agree, how can we learn anything new and interesting?

And yes, the forums are a good place to hash out the question of whose opinion has more merit.

But the question of "Who is right" has little bearing on the question of "how do I deal with interpersonal issues?". Just ask any married person about THAT one.

I also agree that the huggy-feely stuff is something to keep off the forums. I don't care to see it, and if the OP and his friend decide to air their dirty laundry in public, the audience will only make things worse. Keep the two things separate.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Actually, I'm a fan of Stealth on my 2 Rogue 18 Wizard.

The difference in DC's and Spell Pen is a single Past Life versus a capstone Wiz 20, but the ability to sneak into range to FoD an enemy caster is priceless.

It's also great for retrieving the soulstones of arrogant zerging elitists.

I love stealth too but inadmit usually my idea of stealth is casting invisibility and bolting.

However, a pure wizard probably has more spare skill points to invest in stealth skills than a splashed one as usually if you splash your skill points are eaten up by UMD, search, DD (5/level there). Sure, you can skip trap skills in favour of stealth skills but then monk > rogue on account of free feats (plus is awesome with PM combo).

It takes more than a PL: wizard to balance out the splash. Feats are tight on a wizard these days, there isn't any I'd give up.

[wax_on_wax_off]

But the question of "Who is right" has little bearing on the question of "how do I deal with interpersonal issues?". Just ask any married person about THAT one.

See one of the things that I love about DDO is that I can get away from needing such diplomacy and just play the game. The moment that I require conflict resolution strategies similar to what I employ with my fiancée is the time I stop playing with that person.

[transtemporal]

I find the phrase "I don't think you know what you're talking about nubstain" is a good phrase to use. Be sure to add it to your repetoire.

[Ungood]

I knew I should have never splashed that silly song singin class :/
Everyone else it's really more he thinks that the rogue levels completely gimp it.

He's got it all wrong, Rogue/Monk is the epics shizzles to all the classes, if ya want the lawful awfuls, then you gotta monk it baby monk it, but when you slapping that sweet bard bootie, you gotta rogue the mean ride, get my drift man? Everybody knows that brudda, ya know, it';s the beat of the heat of the street, if you know the land then that is just way things go.

[Entelech]

The OP specified it was a "RL buddy".

Otherwise, I'd be totally with you on the "kick this guy to the curb and find someone who sucks less in PUGs."

[slimkj]

He is also a "pc gamer" so he has that typical "I'm better than everyone attitude."

Ummm... What?

[jwdaniels]

Is it possible that, since he is a RL buddy, he's just pushing your buttons because he knows it annoys you. Sort of like the gamer equivalent of making fun of the fugly chicked you made out with while drunk in middle school or something along those lines?