Experience rewards broken

[Seikojin]

I could use some insight into this.

I have tried calculating the reward from a quest, and no matter which way I slice it, the game does not give you as much exp as it is supposed to. In any quest, on any difficulty.

So please, someone help me find a post that explains it (tried searching), or a dev please break it down. Because doing base + % = new base + % = new base... doesnt add up, and neither does base + % - base = difference, sum the differences and add them to base.

Thanks!

[Calebro]

Have you tried:
base + (base * %) + (base * %)
That seems the most logical to me, with each % boost acting independently.

[Templarion]

Well yeah, the % bonus isn't the most clear one. Everyone understands that bonus is a bonus but % is a thing many people really don't understand well. I am one of them.

Maybe we should not see that % bonus at all but the game could calculate the bonus % and just show a static number how much is added to the xp as a bonus. Hide the % to the background.

[HunkyDane]

Let's say a quest have a base XP reward of 1000 XP

Various Bonusses always work out from the base reward.

So;

Ransack bonus 15% would give 1000 x 1.15 = 150
Conquest bonus 25% would give 1000 x 1.25 = 250
No deaths 10% would give 1000 x 1.10 = 100
No reentries 10% would give 1000 x 1.10 = 100

Etc.

Reward calculation would then be 1000 + 150 + 250 + 100 + 100

Total Reward 1550 XP

[Seikojin]

Have you tried:
base + (base * %) + (base * %)
That seems the most logical to me, with each % boost acting independently.

Sorry, you are right, I misspoke it because my calc has a % key for doing all that at once. I would do base + 10% on the calc and it would do the base * 1.1 = new base... Sorry about that.

[Seikojin]

ok, went into durks
base *906* on normal
optional for *45* exp
-10% for my level: *816* (815.4 on paper)
+25% for first time on normal:*1,042* base-10%+25%=204 (203.85 on paper)
+10% scaling bonus:*1,132*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
+10% for persistance:*1,222*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
+10% for flawless:*1312*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
Total in game: 1,312
Total using base-10%+25%+10%+10%+10%:1,357
Total using base-10%+(base+25%)+(base+10%)+(base+10%)+(base+10%):1, 265

If you add the optional exp to the 1265, you get 1310. So less than what the quest gives. If you apply bonuses to the optional in the same fashion as you do the quest, and then add it at the end, you get 1,357, so more than the quest would give. If you follow the base+++++, you are shorted no matter what.

This is without actually doing anything in the quest.

[jwdaniels]

ok, went into durks
base *906* on normal
optional for *45* exp
-10% for my level: *816* (815.4 on paper)
+25% for first time on normal:*1,042* base-10%+25%=204 (203.85 on paper)
+10% scaling bonus:*1,132*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
+10% for persistance:*1,222*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
+10% for flawless:*1312*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
Total in game: 1,312
Total using base-10%+25%+10%+10%+10%:1,357
Total using base-10%+(base+25%)+(base+10%)+(base+10%)+(base+10%):1, 265

If you add the optional exp to the 1265, you get 1310. So less than what the quest gives. If you apply bonuses to the optional in the same fashion as you do the quest, and then add it at the end, you get 1,357, so more than the quest would give. If you follow the base+++++, you are shorted no matter what.

This is without actually doing anything in the quest.

Optionals award exp when you complete the optional, not at the end of the quest. You don't add the optionals in at the end.

[Promethie]

ok, went into durks
base *906* on normal
optional for *45* exp
-10% for my level: *816* (815.4 on paper)
+25% for first time on normal:*1,042* base-10%+25%=204 (203.85 on paper)
+10% scaling bonus:*1,132*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
+10% for persistance:*1,222*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
+10% for flawless:*1312*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
Total in game: 1,312
Total using base-10%+25%+10%+10%+10%:1,357
Total using base-10%+(base+25%)+(base+10%)+(base+10%)+(base+10%):1, 265

If you add the optional exp to the 1265, you get 1310. So less than what the quest gives. If you apply bonuses to the optional in the same fashion as you do the quest, and then add it at the end, you get 1,357, so more than the quest would give. If you follow the base+++++, you are shorted no matter what.

This is without actually doing anything in the quest.

you are still adding 10% to the (base-10% over level) you should add 10% to the base then another % bonus to base then add them up. Or if you add together all the percent bonuses, -10+25+10+10+10=45, the base exp, 906*1.45=1313.7 which is close enough for the game.

[Zirun]

ok, went into durks
base *906* on normal
optional for *45* exp
-10% for my level: *816* (815.4 on paper)
+25% for first time on normal:*1,042* base-10%+25%=204 (203.85 on paper)
+10% scaling bonus:*1,132*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
+10% for persistance:*1,222*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
+10% for flawless:*1312*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
Total in game: 1,312
Total using base-10%+25%+10%+10%+10%:1,357
Total using base-10%+(base+25%)+(base+10%)+(base+10%)+(base+10%):1, 265

If you add the optional exp to the 1265, you get 1310. So less than what the quest gives. If you apply bonuses to the optional in the same fashion as you do the quest, and then add it at the end, you get 1,357, so more than the quest would give. If you follow the base+++++, you are shorted no matter what.

This is without actually doing anything in the quest.

Optionals aren't included in the total XP at the bottom of the XP Log. Penalties to XP do not affect the base XP; they are just negative bonuses.

So 906 * (1 - 0.1 + 0.25 + 0.1 + 0.1 + 0.1) = 1313.7. The XP is rounded with each bonus instead of at the end, which gives 1312 as the final number.

[Calebro]

ok, went into durks
base *906* on normal
optional for *45* exp
-10% for my level: *816* (815.4 on paper)
+25% for first time on normal:*1,042* base-10%+25%=204 (203.85 on paper)
+10% scaling bonus:*1,132*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
+10% for persistance:*1,222*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
+10% for flawless:*1312*base-10%+10%=81.6 (81.54 on paper)
Total in game: 1,312
Total using base-10%+25%+10%+10%+10%:1,357
Total using base-10%+(base+25%)+(base+10%)+(base+10%)+(base+10%):1, 265

If you add the optional exp to the 1265, you get 1310. So less than what the quest gives. If you apply bonuses to the optional in the same fashion as you do the quest, and then add it at the end, you get 1,357, so more than the quest would give. If you follow the base+++++, you are shorted no matter what.

This is without actually doing anything in the quest.

The reason your numbers don't add up properly is because you are using fractions for some and rounding for others, and then rounding again at the end.
It needs to be uniform.

But really, the method I described whereby each % is independent is obviously the correct one.
Is it really worth all this math for 1-2 xp differential that doesn't even really exist?
Wow dude, that's seriously OCD. Well done.

[Kinerd]

Is it really worth all this math for 1-2 xp differential that doesn't even really exist?

I do not understand this question.

[Calebro]

I do not understand this question.

All this math to figure out why it isn't giving the xp that it's *supposed* to.
The reason that it didn't add up correctly is because of the way that he was rounding.

Total in game: 1,312
Total using base-10%+(base+25%)+(base+10%)+(base+10%)+(base+10%):1, 265
If you add the optional exp to the 1265, you get 1310.

Between what the quest gives and what his math gives is a difference of 2xp, and that 2xp differential is clearly because of the decimals and the way that he's dealing with them.

[Seikojin]

I was using durks as an example. The bigger disparity was in the pit, where hundreds and sometimes thousands of exp were not being worked into the final amount.

In the end here, what we have is a UI system that isn't properly informing the players what they are getting.
If you look at the XP screen in game, it leads you to think that it is doing base+%=newbase+%... so on, when it is actually doing: base+total% modifiers=new total +bonuses/optionals.

When you do base+total% on durks your total before optionals is 1313.7, rounded up would be 1314.

If the UI took the line by line updates for exp out, and left it alone at the bottom, people logically would assume (correctly) that it would be base +%totals instead of being led to think the base gets updated after each percentage.

[Seikojin]

I remembered how the game does it...
Before the line in the quest xp screen, you have modifiers to the base (difficulty etc). This new base is then ran against the sum of the other percentages.

I still think if they took the per line values out, changes the UI a little to show the new base and the sum at the end, people would have a lot less confusion in the matter.

Also, I think this is wrong in a bad way:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Quests_by_Level_and_XP
I think there should be some standardization in that list, but clearly there is none. A long, difficult quest of lvl X should give the same as other Long , difficult quest of level X. But looking over the quests, it sure doesn't look like that.

[Matuse]

I was using durks as an example. The bigger disparity was in the pit, where hundreds and sometimes thousands of exp were not being worked into the final amount.

No.

Optionals (even if they are required to beat the quest) DO NOT ADD THEIR XP TO THE BASE AMOUNT. They do not modify the base amount in any way. They do not add or subtract to any of the performance bonuses in-quest. They don't change your level penalty, or a powerleveling penalty. It is not reflected in the quest window once you look past the "Optional: XX exp" section, since the XP it lists in that section has already been awarded to you...or else you wouldn't see it at all.

Optional XP is granted immediately, in whatever amount it indicates. That's it.