Quick Proposal for DS II

[Requiro]

With new hope for changes:
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...00&postcount=5

I posted my new concept of Deepwood Sniper.

For now, we have only 2 PrE for ranged attack: AA and DS (And Kensei... but this is another story ). AA is almost complete (at least have something for late game). DS in not only incomplete but even on level 6 better option is AA (+3,5 Force damage, Unlimited Ammo)

That why I decided to change existed first tier of DS too.

(My proposal was inspired by “Master of The Wild” D&D Book)

Level 6 Deepwood Sniper I (4 AP)

• +1 Hide, Move Silently, Spot
• Sneak Attack and PBS: Work within 25 meters
• Ability (active): Sniper Shoot I: Special, One tactic shoot with:
  
  • +4 to hit, +2 to critical threat range, +1 to critical threat multiplier
  • Reduce target fortification by 2%. Duration: 5 sec. (Stack with everything)
  • Colddown: 10 sec
• Ability (passive): Keen Edges: Add Keen property to the weapon (won’t stack with Keen property on weapons or Improve Critical feat)
• Ability (passive): Head Shoot: On Vorpal strike (roll 20) add extra 4d4 + 2d4/ranger level untyped damage.

Level 12 Deepwood Sniper II (2 AP)

• +1 Hide, Move Silently, Spot
• Sneak Attack and PBS: Work within 30 meters
• Ability (active): Sniper Shoot II: Special, One tactic shoot with:
  
  • +6 to hit, +4 to critical threat range, +2 to critical threat multiplier
  • Reduce target fortification by 4%. Duration: 5 sec. (Stack with everything)
  • Colddown: 8 sec
  • Replace Sniper Shoot I
• Ability (passive): Magical Weapon: Add Maiming property to the weapon (stack with everything)
• Ability (passive): Magical Critics: Add Seeker +4 property to the weapon (stack with everything)

Level 18 Deepwood Sniper III (2 AP)

• +1 Hide, Move Silently, Spot
• Sneak Attack and PBS: Work within 35 meters
• Ability (active): Sniper Shoot III: Special, One tactic shoot with:
  
  • +8 to hit, +6 to critical threat range, +3 to critical threat multiplier
  • Reduce target fortification by 6%. Duration: 5 sec. (Stack with everything)
  • Colddown: 6 sec
  • Replace Sniper Shoot II
• Ability (passive): Better Criticals: +1 critical threat range and multiplier (Stack with everything)

--- Special note: Every bonus from Deepwood Sniper work only on ranged weapon, which uses projectile missile (any Bows, any Crossbows) ---

So what do you think?

[Requiro]

What we get:

• On level 6 we get week Sniper Shoot, but gain free Keen property (so free feat on level 9 too), and some extra damage on Vorpals (and this damage will get bigger when we level up).
• On level 12 we get good Sniper Shoot that we will love to use as often as possible. Also small damage bonus from free property on every critical (which can stack with the same bonus from other sources!)
• On level 18 we get superior Sniper Shoot every 6 seconds, and improvements to overall ranged combat (better critical)

Some thoughts about usefulness Sniper Shoot ability.

For some people this ability can look overpowered (on level 18). Give somebody option to shoot with 10-20 critical threat range with x7 critical multiplier? Sound crazy. But it is only illusion, because:

• Like no other special attack, this ability have % change (instead of DC) to do any additional damage and you can’t do anything about it. That why even with super gear, if you are unlucky you will suck in DPS (Chance: lvl6 – max.30%, lvl12 – max.40%, lvl18 – max.55%)
• It is almost completely useless against 100% fortification monsters. In my proposal, fortification damage won’t affect this ability because of short duration.
• This ability is active and have colddown,
• So overall, this ability must brake 3 kind of problem/defences : Normal roll, Critical confirmation and fortification roll. Because of this (and colddown) this ability is unreliable (but with great potential)

Comments are welcome

[dkyle]

The Fort reduction is a good idea. Good way to make Archers worthwhile even if their personal DPS is lower than a melee (which it should be).

You might've gone too far with it, though. Currently, the only way to reduce Devil boss fort for everyone in the party is Jade Strike, which caries a save that is very hard to get above a 5% success rate on Harry, Horoth and Sulu.

You are giving at least 20% fort reduction constantly with no save (alternate Sniper Strike II and III). It's a pretty big leap.

[Requiro]

The Fort reduction is a good idea. Good way to make Archers worthwhile even if their personal DPS is lower than a melee (which it should be).

You might've gone too far with it, though. Currently, the only way to reduce Devil boss fort for everyone in the party is Jade Strike, which caries a save that is very hard to get above a 5% success rate on Harry, Horoth and Sulu.

You are giving at least 20% fort reduction constantly with no save (alternate Sniper Strike II and III). It's a pretty big leap.

In my conception you can’t use alternate Sniper Shoot, because higher ability replace lower one. eg. on level 12 you can only use Sniper Shoot II and on level 18 only Sniper shoot III

Well. 30% almost constant fortification damage (5 sec duration, shoot every 6 sec) can be little too much. Maybe progression 5 / 10 / 15 % will be better?

[dkyle]

In my conception you can’t use alternate Sniper Shoot, because higher ability replace lower one. eg. on level 12 you can only use Sniper Shoot II and on level 18 only Sniper shoot III

I don't see that noted anywhere, and that's not typically how these work, so you should add that clarification to your description. For example, my Monk can rotate among the various tiers of Earth Strikes.

Well. 30% almost constant fortification damage (5 sec duration, shoot every 6 sec) can be little too much. Maybe progression 5 / 10 / 15 % will be better?

Yeah, maybe. But still, having it essentially automatically apply 5/6ths of the time is pretty significant.

It kind of feels like there should be save involved, but I'm not sure what the DC should be.

[Requiro]

I don't see that noted anywhere, and that's not typically how these work, so you should add that clarification to your description. For example, my Monk can rotate among the various tiers of Earth Strikes.

Yeah, maybe. But still, having it essentially automatically apply 5/6ths of the time is pretty significant.

It kind of feels like there should be save involved, but I'm not sure what the DC should be.

In Sniper Shoot II and III are annotation: Replace Sniper Shoot I and Replace Sniper Shoot II.

Fortification damage supposed to be significant. To counterbalance lower DPS. Idk if save is good idea.

Without save, Deepwood Sniper can concentrate on DPS. With save, role of the DS will be reduce to debuf only (and bring this ability worthless in epic), with gimp DPS. For now, I will change for this ability to 5 / 10 / 15 % progression only still without save.

[wonkey]

I haven't played end game yet (play 'hardcore' PD, so don't get that high), so not 100% sure, but I'm not convinced the damage would be as gimp as you think, in general, esp compared to AA.

You think ranged, you think bows, but with these enhancements consider the following:

I'm using 20 ranger for ease, but perhaps combining with mechanic I or barbarian or something would up damage more.

- Obviously, when manyshot is off timer, use it. Probably best DPS in the game, enhanced by 3 sniper shots during duration.

- With manyshot down, and sniper shot on cooldown, use repeater. Crits on 16-20 for x3 damage and effects + extras from this PRE (+4 seeker and maiming). On 20 get vorpal hit for average of 110 damage. (They are much faster than bows, so counts for more than 110 when comparing to slayer arrows, though still behind). [not sure about how speed vs damage works out here. Bow might be superior, depending on bow and xbow]

-Every 6 seconds, use Great Crossbow for crit on an 8 for x6 plus effects [not sure, think great Xbow will beat silver bow in this situation, but would need more to calculate]. Using a +5 seeker 10 great Xbow, I think this would be on avg (7 base, 14 seeker, 5 bonus + possibly something like 14 favored enemy if applicable + effects) 65% of the time for an avg 101.4 against non FE and 156 against FE, plus effects, and I'm sure I missed some stuff.

I heard that at 20 people do about 100-250 dps average, though many think they do more.
Assuming fighting FE half the time, you'd have DPS about 21.45 from sniper shots, 16.5 from vorpal attack, assuming avg of 3 shots per second, 1.5 x crit-multiplied damage (with repeater) from crits (+4.4 from extra seeker and 2.6 from maiming) + regular damage + effects + about .17x4x regular damage [counting crits] from manyshot (a bit less, actually, b/c you prob won't hit it the second it comes off timer every time) + an extra bit from 3 sniper shots during manyshot. Sometimes against multiple attackers.

That should put you at the lower to mid end of normal damage against single targets, above the top vs 2 targets, and far outpacing the top against 3 or more.

[Requiro]

I haven't played end game yet (play 'hardcore' PD, so don't get that high), so not 100% sure, but I'm not convinced the damage would be as gimp as you think, in general, esp compared to AA.

You think ranged, you think bows (...)

When I thing Deepwood Sniper, I thing bows and crossbows of any kind

I hope that average damage from this PrE is not gimp - if not, all my time use to design this PrE was lost

In my PrE design (on DPS term), I concentrate on average damage per shoot. And compare it with +25 AA Slaying Arrow ability.

Your calculation show how much potential is it this project. With Quick Drow feat (you have one free feat with this PrE) this "weapon changing tactic" can actually do more DPS.

But to be correct in your math calculation, I give you proper formula and information:

• Maiming give you average damage per every shoot: 0,175 * Critical range * (Multiplier -1)
• Seeker +4 give you average damage per every shoot: 0,2 * Critical range * Multiplier
• Critical range mean: 20 = 1, 19-20 = 2, 18-20 = 3 ect.
• Head shoot (Vorpal) give you average damage per every shoot: 0,5 + 0,25 * Ranger level
• Maximum critical range with Sniper shoot III is: 10-20 (any weapon with base 19-20 without Keen)
• Maximum Critical Multiplier with Sniper Shoot III is: x7 (any weapon with base x3 multiplier)

Hope this help. Thanks for replay on my ideas and show new way to use this PrE

[Maldavenous]

I would like to see Deepwood Sniper have a larger quantity of activated abilities.

If each tier had 1 new ability and upgraded 1 ability from the tier before I think that would be preferable.

Example:
Deepwood 1:

• Sniper Shot (+Crit Range, Crit Damage, To-Hit)

Deepwood 2:

• Sniper Shot Upgrade 1 (++Crit Range, +Crit Damage, +To-Hit)
• Piercing Shot (Fortification Reduction, AC Reduction)

Deepwood 3:

• Sniper Shot Upgrade 2 (+++Crit Range, ++Crit Damage, ++To-Hit)
• Piercing Shot Upgrade 1 (+Fortification Reduction, +AC Reduction, Vorpal Bonus Damage)
• Head Shot (--To-Hit, Instant Crit, ++++Crit Damage, Vorpal Insta-Kill)

[Requiro]

I would like to see Deepwood Sniper have a larger quantity of activated abilities.

If each tier had 1 new ability and upgraded 1 ability from the tier before I think that would be preferable.

Example:
Deepwood 1:

• Sniper Shot (+Crit Range, Crit Damage, To-Hit)

Deepwood 2:

• Sniper Shot Upgrade 1 (++Crit Range, +Crit Damage, +To-Hit)
• Piercing Shot (Fortification Reduction, AC Reduction)

Deepwood 3:

• Sniper Shot Upgrade 2 (+++Crit Range, ++Crit Damage, ++To-Hit)
• Piercing Shot Upgrade 1 (+Fortification Reduction, +AC Reduction, Vorpal Bonus Damage)
• Head Shot (--To-Hit, Instant Crit, ++++Crit Damage, Vorpal Insta-Kill)

Problem with additional active abilities is limited buttons on the mouse
And cooldown in this abilities.

For now you must all the time looking at the manyshoot timer. And Sniper shoot timer. In the mid time you must change your weapon if needed, use some clickies, watch out your HP, cast spells, and turn on/off stances when needed. Additional if you try sometimes melee you supposed to have Trip and Sunder free active abilities, on hotbar.

If you add to this all 2 additional active abilities with timer, game will be concentrate to look when the timers are finish. That why I prefer passive abilities over the active. This is my personal preferences

Because of this, I add (earlier) your proposal in Fortification Reduction to Sniper Shoot, and Something like Head Shoot like passive ability (less powerful then your suggestion).

I just hate more and more clikies in DDO.

[Requiro]

I rise my own threat. So new comments are welcome.

I made a little, cosmetic changes to my proposal (add PBS and Sneak Attack, also Fortification Reduce in Sniper Shoots)

I hope that work on DeepWood Sniper II, that we should see in Update 11 will be something like this.