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  1. #1
    Community Member Antheal's Avatar
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    Question Inexperienced with Monks, here's what I was thinking...

    I was considering rolling up a Light Path Half-Elf Monk (with the Cleric Dilettante so I can use Cure wands for soloing, BYOHing, or general emergencies).

    STR - 14
    DEX - 16
    CON - 14
    INT - 8
    WIS - 16
    CHA - 8

    +1 Wis at 4th level to 17, +1 Dex at 8th level to 17 (so I can get the full two-weapon fighting line) and all other level ups into Wisdom.

    The first few feats I'd take would be:

    Level 1 = Toughness & Two Weapon Fighting
    Level 2 = Precision
    Level 3 = Concentration focus (and Fists of Light)
    Level 6 = Stunning Fist... and maybe Discipline?

    I was thinking about being in Precision mode and Fire Stance most of the time and spamming Fists of Light/Healing Ki, except on occasions where I swap to Water Stance to use Stunning Fist.

    Is Stunning Fist particularly useful, and worth putting my level-up points into Wisdom instead of Strength (with +1 Dex at level 8).

    Also, while I was planning on being in Fire Stance most of the time for the extra Ki generation for Fists of Light/Healing Ki, I was going to take the Water line of Enhancements to improve my Stunning Fist DC (assuming it's worth this heavy investment into the ability) hence starting with a Wisdom of 16 and putting all-but-one level ups into it.

    I was hoping that Precision mode would help offset the lower to-hit from not having as high a Strength, on the assumption that Stunning Fist and Fists of Light would be more useful to the party than a few extra points of melee damage on my attacks.

    As you've noticed, I've not mentioned stat increases from Tomes or equipment, this is because I don't have any Tomes or equipment to begin with, however I will naturally attempt to acquire the best I can as soon as possible, so you can assume these benefits will be incorporated at the earliest opportunity.

    My question is, if this beginning idea is a good one, and it's worth making a Stunning Fist-based Monk, what feats would be best to take from level 6 onwards?

    I'm reluctant to take Power Attack, as I think the to-hit penalty would not be worth the trade off for extra damage when I'm not trying to be an actual DPS build.

  2. #2
    Community Member r3dl4nce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antheal View Post
    STR - 14
    too low
    Quote Originally Posted by Antheal View Post
    CON - 14
    too low, you want earth strike IV
    Quote Originally Posted by Antheal View Post
    WIS - 16
    too high

    Good starting stats for stunner light path a half elf monk are:
    STR 16 (level ups here)
    DEX 15 (+2 tome for ITWF/GTWF, +3 tome for wind stance IV)
    CON 15 (+3 tome for earth stance IV)
    WIS 14 (+2 tome for water stance III)
    If you don't have 32 point build, don't roll a monk. +2 tomes can be found in game and bought from store, +3 tomes you will acquire doing raids....

    Quote Originally Posted by Antheal View Post
    +1 Wis at 4th level to 17, +1 Dex at 8th level to 17 (so I can get the full two-weapon fighting line) and all other level ups into Wisdom.
    Use a +2 tome for dex prerequisites (wind stance IV) and every level raise STR. You are a dps, you WANT make damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Antheal View Post
    Level 2 = Precision
    useless

    Quote Originally Posted by Antheal View Post
    Level 3 = Concentration focus (and Fists of Light)
    skill focus concentration: useless
    Quote Originally Posted by Antheal View Post
    Level 6 = Stunning Fist... and maybe Discipline?
    discipline useless


    Good feats for a monk are:
    toughness, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, improved critical bludgeon, power attack, stunning fist and one required for shintao monk (luck of heroes I think)


    Quote Originally Posted by Antheal View Post
    I was thinking about being in Precision mode and Fire Stance most of the time and spamming Fists of Light/Healing Ki, except on occasions where I swap to Water Stance to use Stunning Fist.
    You were thinking wrong, precision stance is useless

    Quote Originally Posted by Antheal View Post
    Is Stunning Fist particularly useful, and worth putting my level-up points into Wisdom instead of Strength (with +1 Dex at level 8).
    Stunning fist is good, but don't forget about your dps, your level ups must be in str

    Quote Originally Posted by Antheal View Post
    I'm reluctant to take Power Attack,
    gimp yourself. You are a melee dps, EVERY melee dps must have P.A.
    Last edited by r3dl4nce; 02-08-2011 at 04:07 AM.

  3. #3
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    Precision, concentration focus and discipline are useless feats pretty much... there's lots of talk on the forums why precision is a feat no one should take... concentration focus is not necessary - you just need to put one point (4 on the first level) to concentration each level... discipline is not good for the same reason, you'll have enough concentration...

    these are the most important points really... anyway...

    if no tomes available, I would go with dexterity based build, using wind stance, putting all levels into dexterity and taking weapon finesse to be able to hit something...

    stunning fist is great and also a prerequisite for shintao monk if I recall... oh and so is discipline but there's a better alternative to that imo ... luck of heroes, +1 to all saves

    if you would want to use fire stance, you would need to put all level ups into strength to qualify for the 18 strength you need for the grandmaster tier.

    power attack is quite essential for any monk...

  4. #4
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Not only will you get wand use, but when you get to level 15 you'll be able to use Heal scrolls with 95% success rate & no-fail raise dead scrolls.. not too shabby for soloing & emergency party support

    feats-wise, power attack is totally worth it as at high levels your to-hit wont be too much of a problem & at lower levels (on norm & hard difficulty) you can use a plain set of high + handwraps or chug a heroism potion to compensate or just turn it off if you have problems hitting (in elite this might be necessary) - precision boosts to hit nicely but completely ruins your damage-dealing capability & is generally unnecessary.

    i'd suggest ditching precision & concentration focus and taking PA & cleave in their place... that'll let you qualify for shintao just fine & though a lot of people knock cleave, it can be very useful as a combat opener to get a chunk of ki for follow up attacks & when you get access to stuff like paralysers it can be nice for potentially immobilising groups of enemies at once.

    stunning fist is pretty much essential for any monk, particularly light & wisdom based monks as it gives you great crowd control ability & is a force multiplier for yourself & your party

    Overall a consistently reliable feat selection is:
    Essential:
    toughness
    PA
    2wf
    i2wf
    g2wf
    stunning fist
    ic: bludgeon

    Optionals:
    Cleave (as stated above)
    Weapon finesse (mainly for dex/wis builds, you might benefit from this, will let you skimp on str a little & rely on stunning to provide dps through auto-crits)
    more toughness (if you cant think of anything else)
    dragonmarks (mainly beneficial for halflings, as a helf the other options arent all that great for you really)
    past life (if applicable)
    Resilience (often overlooked, but in some situations going water stance plus resilience can be a massive lifesaver, particularly against elite traps, beholders etc.)
    great fortitude/iron will/lightning reflexes/luck of heroes (bonus to saves can be useful sometimes)

    One other thing you need to think about is which animal path you're going to take - my personal preference is always to go with monkey, as the inherent energy resistance is very useful vs. damage over time effects (acid arrow is a killer at low levels) & the extra bonus to saves vs traps is nice to have. Crane is good for getting Ki in a hurry through autocrits, and tortoise boosts hp & concentration. hound is good if you're really having trouble to hit (but needs someone else to have aggro), and badger.. well, dont bother as it relies on you being at low HP to activate.
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, now what's it is weird and scary to me.

  5. #5
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    Based on what you said you want.
    I suggest going wind stance instead of flame, even if you went flame, what you have planned for your stats, wouldnt allow you to take the highest tier. Now if you went wind you just need a +1 tome to gain the highest tier.

    1. Stunning Fist, two weapon Fighting
    2. Weapon Finesse
    3. Power attack, Light
    6. Toughness, Luck of heros
    9. Imp. two weapon fighting
    12. toughness/ Improved crit
    15. Greater two weapon fighting
    18. Toughness

    Also for Ki, go Crane stance intill 18 where you want to aquire a Omrei's necklace. once your 18 with the neck, you can swap it too monkey or tortoise.

    Also, this build should give you a decent AC, not enough to tank. but it will give you a higher solobility.

  6. #6
    Community Member DarkFlash's Avatar
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    Its funny that I have been called "the best monk my friend had ever seen" (by a random dude in shavarath), yet I NEVER use elemental strikes. I only spam stuns & 160hp-Healing Ki. (And own everything with 13 different Gbane sets, ie. +3 holy GEOB)

    EDIT: And back then I was still DEX-based 28pt build
    EDIT2: But for making a good strong build, take:
    toughness, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC:bludgeon, power attack, stunning fist
    (+ stunning blow? Good IF you can get high DC)
    (+ Finesse if your DEX is alot higher than STR)
    (+ luck of heroes? for shintao)
    (+ toughness, you can never have too many of those)
    Last edited by DarkFlash; 02-08-2011 at 12:05 PM.
    Human shintao with 307% healing amp \,,/_(>.<)_\,,/

  7. #7
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    If I were you, and especially if you wanted to be a ninja spy, I would play the Ninja Gaiden arcade game before you attempt to play as a monk, just to get a idea about monks in general and maybe what its like to solo.

  8. #8
    Community Member Jahmin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkFlash View Post
    Its funny that I have been called "the best monk my friend had ever seen", yet I never use elemental strikes. I only spam stuns & 160hp-Healing Ki. (And own everything with 13 different Gbane sets, ie. +3 holy GEOB)

    EDIT: And back then I was still DEX-based 28pt build
    That says far more about your "friend's" exposure to Monks then it does about you

  9. #9
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    Choose if you want to go with a wis/dex or str/con build. You have some elements of each in this build, but for best results you'll want to stick with one or the other. There are some that swear by str/con builds, but I've personally don't like them; you'll never have enough DPS to match the DPS machines (barbs, TWF builds, etc) so trying to do so forces you to undervalue so other great features of the monk class.

    So while Str monks try to mimic the traditional tanks, wis/dex monks take a fuller advantage of the unique abilities a monk has (stunning fist, great saves, huge AC bonuses, etc). Most monk abilities are based on Wisdom so if you have a good Wis you can stun more with SF, have more AC, higher Will save, land Quivering Palm more often. Str builds neglect high Wis stats or dump it altogether.

    From the sounds of it, you're interested in a toon that can solo so I'll recommend wis/dex monks. Check out the Rockan Robin build (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=210181). My monk is more or less following that build. The only thing I'd change about that build is the stats (get Int to 12 so you can get Combat Expertise with a +1 Tome instead of the second Toughness) and the placement of the feats (I got CE at 6 instead of PA which I'll get later).

    ================================================== ==

    Halfling Monk 20
    Str 12
    Dex 16
    Con 14
    Int 12
    Wis 16 + 5 levels
    Cha 8

    Feats you should get (in generally this order): Toughness, Two weapon fighting, Weapon Finesse, [Dodge (dark) or Luck of Heroes (light)], Combat Expertise (with +1 int tome), Stunning Fist, Improved Two Weapon Fighting (with +1 dex tome), Improved Critical: Bludgeoning, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Power Attack (with +1 str tome)

    Skills: Concentration is a must have, max it. UMD is super useful and you should max it too. You should also have a total Jump mod of at least 10 by level 20, a Balance mod around 15 or 17, and one rank in Tumble. Beyond that is up to you. Personally I maxed Jump so I don't have to rely on the spell and put the rest into Move Silently (since dark monks get bonuses for Hide). Spot also wouldn't be a bad idea; I put about 10 ranks into it.

    Halfling: Halflings gets a natural +1 boost to AC, to-hit mod, and all saving throws. They also get +2 jump and MS, and +4 to Hide. If you go dark monk, they also can boost your DPS with Halfling Guile which increases your sneak attack. Monks have enough free self-healing that you don't need to be HElf just for the cleric dilletante.

    Light vs. dark: Light monks get easy self-heals while fighting which is nice on a build that already takes so little damage. Dark monks, on the other hand, have better DPS since they have sneak attacks and Touch of Death (plus they can run on water!). Both work well. I went with a dark monk and the wholeness of body ability (and a stack of pots for emergencies) is enough to keep me healed.

    Wind stance: As a dex monk you'll want wind stance. It lets you attack faster than anyone but a fighter with haste boost and buffs your Dex (hello Reflex saves and AC!). You don't get as much Ki as a fire stance monk, but some of that can be made up for by taking the crane animal path.

    ==================================================

    I've included the use of a few +1 tomes (str, dex, int). It's tough to get away without them on this build, but they aren't very expensive in the AH (10-25pp generally). The only tough one should be the first one. And remember that you can mail money from other toons if you've got it.

    The other thing I thought I'd mention is Power Attack. You will need it, but with Weapon Finesse you'll have more than enough to hit.

    Finally, the reason I put the points into Wis is because it feeds a lot more than Dex; AC, Will save, SF DC, QP DC, TOD DC (if you're dark)...and I think a few others. You'll want your stuns to hit often in order to make up for the lower DPS.
    Last edited by tjaysteno; 02-08-2011 at 05:43 PM.

  10. 02-08-2011, 05:40 PM


  11. #10
    Community Member r3dl4nce's Avatar
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    My opinions:

    Quote Originally Posted by tjaysteno View Post
    Halfling Monk 20
    Str 12
    Dex 16
    Con 14
    Int 12
    Wis 16 + 5 levels
    Cha 8
    trash mob monk, but when you are about to fight raid boss your dps is so low you are like doing anything. With CON 14 you miss earth stance IV. INT 12 is useless. level ups on wis will gimp more the dps.
    I don't think monks should gimp dps so much....


    Quote Originally Posted by tjaysteno View Post
    Combat Expertise (with +1 int tome),
    With a so low dps, what's the meaning of your ac? no intimidate, no hate tankig, so CE is for what?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjaysteno View Post
    Halfling: Halflings gets a natural +1 boost to AC, to-hit mod, and all saving throws. They also get +2 jump and MS, and +4 to Hide. If you go dark monk, they also can boost your DPS with Halfling Guile which increases your sneak attack. Monks have enough free self-healing that you don't need to be HElf just for the cleric dilletante.
    Half elf with rogue dilettante is more dps (3d6 sneak) than halfling with guile/cunning

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3dl4nce View Post
    trash mob monk, but when you are about to fight raid boss your dps is so low you are like doing anything. With CON 14 you miss earth stance IV. INT 12 is useless. level ups on wis will gimp more the dps.
    I don't think monks should gimp dps so much....
    Again, if you want pure DPS go with a tempest/kensai. If you want to play a monk, play to their strengths. One of those strengths; potential AC in the 90s.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3dl4nce View Post
    With a so low dps, what's the meaning of your ac? no intimidate, no hate tankig, so CE is for what?
    Then get in there first and pull aggro. By the time the mobs turn you should already have taken out the casters. That is, if your DPS hasn't already taken everything out.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3dl4nce View Post
    Half elf with rogue dilettante is more dps (3d6 sneak) than halfling with guile/cunning
    A good point. I would personally still go halfling for the other boosts, but could see someone going that route. I think we agree though that Cleric Dilettante isn't the way to go though.

  13. #12
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Earth Strike IV isn't that big a deal. If you're light path you do want high Wis so all your various disablers have good DCs. Monks, especially light-side monks, do pretty bad DPS against bosses anyways, a point of Strength here or there isn't going to change much. I wouldn't put all your level-ups in Wisdom or ever hang around in Water stance, though. If you can get 18 Dex with a +2 tome you can get Wind stance IV which would be better for you.

  14. #13
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    A wisdom based monk can add a huge amount of party DPS through Jade Strike if you can get the DC to a decent level. Far more dps than a few extra points of damage per swing. 10% DPS increase to all party members in addition to reduced fort can drop Harry, Sally, Horoth or Conjoined Abashi extremely fast. A Jade Strike DC near 50 is not unreasonable to expect on a wisdom based monk.

    Sure it isn't going to help you in EVoN6 as much as the extra str would, but I'll take that negative in order to increase party DPS in Shroud, Tod, Devil Assault and EChrono. Dismissing wisdom based monks outright is extremely ignorant and short sighted. DPS is not always directly related to your str score and damage bonuses.
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