PvP? Inquire Within.

[Yajerman01]

Because most people dont want it and a lot dont even what pvp we have, I enjoy pvp in a game designed for it but I dont want changes made to ddo to accomadate pvp because it would require changes to the core game plus take time from the things I find much much much much more important such as bug development, content, races and classes, etc..........

I am playing devils advocate here so the statement above which to me is the continued straw man argument. What exact core changes would be required to accomodate additional pvp? Oponents generalize the argument saying it is modifying or would alter pve. If we simply add or convert a lowbie explorer area and simply allow a sector to be pve/pvp (using similar coding when we had the market invasion)what is so altering of the game mechanics that this would be the endall beall of DDO?

I find that over the past 4 years, "bug development, content, races, and classes, etc", have been routine if not predictable and often lacking. My argument is if you open up a p4p pvppve explorer area you can gauge the net profits to see if additional implementation would quantify additonal hiring of devs to spend time on another pet project.

I agree in the sense that the current devs should not take time away from there current to-do list, but if a coding on an exlporer area can be implemented without taxing too much time, then what is the harm?

[Calebro]

I am playing devils advocate here so the statement above which to me is the continued straw man argument. What exact core changes would be required to accomodate additional pvp? Oponents generalize the argument saying it is modifying or would alter pve. If we simply add or convert a lowbie explorer area and simply allow a sector to be pve/pvp (using similar coding when we had the market invasion)what is so altering of the game mechanics that this would be the endall beall of DDO?

I find that over the past 4 years, "bug development, content, races, and classes, etc", have been routine if not predictable and often lacking. My argument is if you open up a p4p pvppve explorer area you can gauge the net profits to see if additional implementation would quantify additonal hiring of devs to spend time on another pet project.

I agree in the sense that the current devs should not take time away from there current to-do list, but if a coding on an exlporer area can be implemented without taxing too much time, then what is the harm?

You're missing the point.

A central localized area simply designated as a PvP area would not be sufficient. PvP enthusiasts would go there and find it just as dull as combat in the pits.
But the difference would be that now there was an actual PvP area other then a brawl room. The PvP enthusiasts would take that to mean that the game was beginning to focus more attention on PvP.
They would then argue that Class X is OP in PvP compared to Class B, and make a cry for nerfs to Class A, or buffs to Class B.
Remember H4x? There would be THOUSANDS of him.
The new PvP area would attract more PvP'ers to it, and the cries of buff/nerf would gain momentum.

One of two things would happen from there.
1. The PvP enthusiasts would gain enough support from fellow PvP'ers that the Devs would begin to listen to them, and thus change the classes, which would DESTROY the PvE balance. If/when Class A was buffed/.nerfed, a NEW king of PvP would emerge, starting the cycle over again. It would be an ENDLESS cycle.
-or-
2. The PvP enthusiasts would gain enough numbers that the PvE vs PvP hate would become intolerable.

Either way that it goes down, it's bad for the game.
Had this game been designed with PvP in mind, some of the problems could possibly have been avoided.
But it wasn't designed with PvP in mind. Not at all. D&D is a PvE game, not a PvP game. So DDO, but using D&D's ruleset, is also a PvE game by default.
To attempt to change it to a PvP game would literally ruin DDO.

[Yajerman01]

You're missing the point.

A central localized area simply designated as a PvP area would not be sufficient. PvP enthusiasts would go there and find it just as dull as combat in the pits.
But the difference would be that now there was an actual PvP area other then a brawl room. The PvP enthusiasts would take that to mean that the game was beginning to focus more attention on PvP.
They would then argue that Class X is OP in PvP compared to Class B, and make a cry for nerfs to Class A, or buffs to Class B.
Remember H4x? There would be THOUSANDS of him.
The new PvP area would attract more PvP'ers to it, and the cries of buff/nerf would gain momentum.

One of two things would happen from there.
1. The PvP enthusiasts would gain enough support from fellow PvP'ers that the Devs would begin to listen to them, and thus change the classes, which would DESTROY the PvE balance. If/when Class A was buffed/.nerfed, a NEW king of PvP would emerge, starting the cycle over again. It would be an ENDLESS cycle.
-or-
2. The PvP enthusiasts would gain enough numbers that the PvE vs PvP hate would become intolerable.

Either way that it goes down, it's bad for the game.
Had this game been designed with PvP in mind, some of the problems could possibly have been avoided.
But it wasn't designed with PvP in mind. Not at all. D&D is a PvE game, not a PvP game. So DDO, but using D&D's ruleset, is also a PvE game by default.
To attempt to change it to a PvP game would literally ruin DDO.

I will agree with your theory IF you also agree that it is a possible theory and not matter of fact as you have spoken it to be.

[Calebro]

I will agree with your theory IF you also agree that it is a possible theory and not matter of fact as you have spoken it to be.

It's what happens in every single MMO that has balance issues within PvP.
This game has HUGE balance issues within PvP. It is a matter of fact, which is why I stated it as such.

[Yajerman01]

It's what happens in every single MMO that has balance issues within PvP.
This game has HUGE balance issues within PvP. It is a matter of fact, which is why I stated it as such.

what happens elsewhere cannot be applied here. It can be implied therefore it is conjecture at best.

[Calebro]

what happens elsewhere cannot be applied here. It can be implied therefore it is conjecture at best.

When I drop an apple from the top of a tree it falls.
When I drop an apple off the top of the Empire State building it falls.
When I drop an apple from the top of Mount Everest it falls.
When I drop an apple off of the Eiffel Tower it falls.
When I drop an apple off of the top of the roller coaster it falls.
Do I need to climb to the top of the Sears Tower and test this "theory" again here?

What happens elsewhere CAN be applied in other places, as long as the data supports it's use.
The data supports my "theory" here as well.

[Yajerman01]

When I drop an apple from the top of a tree it falls.
When I drop an apple off the top of the Empire State building it falls.
When I drop an apple from the top of Mount Everest it falls.
When I drop an apple off of the Eiffel Tower it falls.
When I drop an apple off of the top of the roller coaster it falls.
Do I need to climb to the top of the Sears Tower and test this "theory" again here?

What happens elsewhere CAN be applied in other places, as long as the data supports it's use.
The data supports my "theory" here as well.

Your statement is a false analogy my friend. Your stating that human interaction is the same everywhere, therefore your stating that the personalities and human reaction in DDO are no different then WOW. Next time dont use the laws of physics to interplay human reaction. I will agree that it is a theory as I have stated before, not fact.

[Uska]

I am playing devils advocate here so the statement above which to me is the continued straw man argument. What exact core changes would be required to accomodate additional pvp? Oponents generalize the argument saying it is modifying or would alter pve. If we simply add or convert a lowbie explorer area and simply allow a sector to be pve/pvp (using similar coding when we had the market invasion)what is so altering of the game mechanics that this would be the endall beall of DDO?

I find that over the past 4 years, "bug development, content, races, and classes, etc", have been routine if not predictable and often lacking. My argument is if you open up a p4p pvppve explorer area you can gauge the net profits to see if additional implementation would quantify additonal hiring of devs to spend time on another pet project.

I agree in the sense that the current devs should not take time away from there current to-do list, but if a coding on an exlporer area can be implemented without taxing too much time, then what is the harm?

As soon as you do more pvp people will cry for balancing and I promise you that will affect pve even if they dont intend it to there will be bugs. Its a waste of time and you can tell most dont want it even the nonfourm types because if not there would be a larger pop using the pvp we have then is the case now.

[Yajerman01]

As soon as you do more pvp people will cry for balancing and I promise you that will affect pve even if they dont intend it to there will be bugs. Its a waste of time and you can tell most dont want it even the nonfourm types because if not there would be a larger pop using the pvp we have then is the case now.

Well I enjoy both PVE and PVP and I might be the rare case in thinking that PVP is fine the way it is but id also like to see additions. However, unlike you and most opponents I do not see it simply as black and white, perhaps I am missing somethign but if anythign im not going to be absolute without regard and because the masses on this forum sight object does not mean there is not intrinsic value to PVP.

But for concession purposes, let the devs put somethign on Lamania (sic) if it works there I see no reason not to implement it on the servers. If it flops, then you can all bask in your glrious postion. It really matter not for me int he end, I think its amusing how many people cry out against it and yet half of them dont or have not even bothered trying it or in some cases get owned so bad they hate it without recourse.