Community Poll: Divine Avenger or Angel of Vengeance

[SisAmethyst]

Offensive Divine Casters do need more spells, but that fact alone is not a good reason why they should not get a boost now. Especially since, as you said, Melee Favoured Souls don't need the more power right now.

I agree with AylinIsAwesome, the melee options we have don't necessarily need a boost at this moment. But an Angel of Vengeance would bring some divergence and options. You still could go the melee route but would have the benefits of a PrE along with that.

[Fishcatch22]

All Caster FvS really need for epics is a good CC spell that is either a stationary AoE on a timer, or gives autocrit fun. They could gt both if they scaled up Symbol of Stunning to work on epic mobs. That said, some more options for damaging spells wouldn't hurt for them either.

[LordPiglet]

Divine Avenger would be my preference

but either one would be okay if we can get ToD set for FVS

[Namey]

I'm biased towards melee Divine Avenger. I say let the clerics be the better casters.

[azrael4h]

Melee (whichever PrE that may be, I won't bother to assume as no details have been released). Epics will need a complete rework before casters, Divine or Arcane, are not relegated to certain pigeon holes. a PrE won't change that, not without being grossly overpowered compared to other classes' PrEs.

[wolflordnexus]

Melee Divine Avenger all the way but I'm biased

[BananaHat]

Thanks for replying everyone, I hope Eladrin doesn't curse me for bringing up voting!

My own two cents:
I'm surprised at how many people want AoV. I really never see any offensive casting Favored Souls. They must hide from me, although most likely it is because I am usually playing my melee WF FvS and most groups take only 1 cleric/FvS.

Divine Avenger (melee Pre) Pros:
-Class has a natural melee bent due to bonus feats for a chosen weapon
-Prestige lines seem to help focus the natural ways to play a character first.
---Example: Frenzied Berserker. Barbarians take lots of damage and deal lots of damage. With this Prestige Line, take even more damage to deal more!
---Other examples:
---Arcane archer (Ranged) and Tempest (TWF) for Ranger. They naturally get the feats for both of those play styles.
---Kensai (Damage) and Stalwart Defender (Tank) for Fighter. Fighters naturally choose a weapon type and really specialize in it, Kensai takes it a level further.
---HotD (Survivability), KotD (Kill Evil Outsiders), and DoS (Tank) for Paladins.
---Palemaster (Arcane Survivability) and Archmage (Arcane DC's) for Wizard.
---Notice how Purple Dragon Knight isn't in? A fighter who buffs? Grab a pally! Or Wild Mage for Wizard? Yay, a caster that hits the party with random spells! How useful! Or Ravager (DoT/Fear/Stat damage) or Occult Slayer (Barbarian Survivability) for Barbarians. Kill slower/debuff or live longer? These are not barbarian ways!
-Giving good melee capability and survivability leads to a natural melee character. Turn on quicken, get in there, and hit AoE heals while mixing it up in melee, the Favored Soul way!

Divine Avenger Cons:
-Apparently alot of people want AoV. Sure surprised me!
-More melee focus. Less diversity.
-More melee buff spells would be nice to enhance yourself more. Think Righteous Might.

Angel of Vengeance (caster Pre) Pros:
-The Devs seems to think this is the natural way to play the class. This is evidenced by it being the first planned Prestige Line and the past life feat. My WF FvS has no real reason to TR into a FvS again because there is no real benefit, which is sad. This is the problem with a class that can do so much and be played many ways. At least rogues got a second capstone to choose from.
-Adds diversity and would lead to more acceptance from parties that the FvS can blast like an arcane.
-As many have said, the melee FvS is already lots of fun, a caster Prestige Line makes more aspects of the class enjoyable.
-Most likely more spells coming if a caster Presige Line is chosen.

Angel of Vengeance Cons:
-Definitely need a bigger spell list to support this prestige line.
-Need enhancements to shore up divine caster damage. How about something for flame strike, fire storm, or blade barrier?


From a quick read through, it seems like there is a rough 50% split. As I said, I really am surprised. It just proves how awesome the Favored Soul really is and why everyone should make one. Then I won't have to Heal them and can slash more! All divine runs are super sweet.

All that being said, I vote for Divine Avenger or at least WF Juggernaut to appease every single Warforged out there.

[GotSomeQuestions]

I would like to see the Angel of Vengeance PrE first. Like I said in the other thread, Melee FvS can already spend AP on racial enhancements (WF PA, Elf Scimmy, etc), but casters just have the basic class enhancements.

[Xalerwons]

I'd love to see something like a portion of your Wis or Cha bonus added to weapon damage/hit so you can maintain DCs reasonably without losing melee capabilities

[aggravated]

Divine Avenger

[andreascott89]

Divine Avenger (melee line) pls. I am biased but that's my vote

/second

[ciep]

AoV please. I do agree some more spells are needed for divine offensive casting, especially something that would work well in epics. There are roughly 12 prestige enhancement lines that focus on melee currently. There are currently zero that focus on divine offensive casting.

[HarveyMilk]

Definitely AoV.

And please focus it on making us more viable in epics.

Some ideas:

-Make Tier 3 change blade barrier to hit repeatedly, like firewall, but also crit on auto-crit mobs. That way we could blade barrier + greater command would work, and so would blade barrier + mass hold, but it would depend on good positioning and not be an iWin button.

-or make tier 3 change implosion to a vacuum effect, like trap the soul, so it works against epic mobs, especially those that have already been neg leveled.

[Jeromio]

Divine Avenger please.

[Attropos]

Definitely AoV.

And please focus it on making us more viable in epics.

Some ideas:

-Make Tier 3 change blade barrier to hit repeatedly, like firewall, but also crit on auto-crit mobs. That way we could blade barrier + greater command would work, and so would blade barrier + mass hold, but it would depend on good positioning and not be an iWin button.

-or make tier 3 change implosion to a vacuum effect, like trap the soul, so it works against epic mobs, especially those that have already been neg leveled.

Both of these are incredibly OP in my opinion. Just curious, why should Favored Soul's be better damage dealers than sorcerers or wizards currently? auto crit and ticks on BB would make the arguably best spell in the game, the absolute best. Leveling? Turtle up and hide in your BB. Between your heals and the constant, exceptional damage, FvS would have even less of an incentive to group.

The biggest problem I have with AoV is that the only way to improve the caster portion of the fvs line would be to give it more offensive spells.

People have been asking for 2 main things; auto crit cc and more damage. I think that after the sorcerer PrE, the damage might be a little bit more reasonable, but if FvS got auto crit cc, there would be -0- reason to bring a caster into epics.

Favored Souls have always seemed to be more of a melee class with their defensive abilities and weapon specializations, so it's interesting to see that Turbine was thinking about releasing a caster PrE first. From my observation, I have seen many more melee fvs than caster fvs, so it's surprising to see the support for AoV over DA.

[taurean430]

Human and Elven melee souls are quite viable as well, they're just less min-max and more difficult feat wise. Because of this they are less common. And they're quite different from a WF Soul, so there is variety.

I'll have to agree with you there. The problem appears to be with the general population of active players on the server. I have a few variants of melee styled FvS builds and enjoy playing them all. Not all are accepted into end game groups due to existing assumptions regarding FvS elves or humans.

My casting FvS was TR'd into a melee variant. The problem I anticipate with a possible introduction of the caster pre centers around the inflated hp totals/blanket immunities that current end game mobs possess. Increasing the damage regarding divine offensive spells would indeed be nice. However; given the current state of enemy mobs that we've seen - a fair increase, (in respect to other existing classes), amounts to very little damage. DC's needed to land Greater Command, Symbol (Persuasion) and other spells are already obtainable. Difficult to achieve, but still obtainable.

Either build style sorely needs a prestige class imo. Yet until we see what the rumored epic reboot has to offer I'd place my hopes into seeing the melee PrE first.

[Xalerwons]

Both of these are incredibly OP in my opinion. Just curious, why should Favored Soul's be better damage dealers than sorcerers or wizards currently? auto crit and ticks on BB would make the arguably best spell in the game, the absolute best. Leveling? Turtle up and hide in your BB. Between your heals and the constant, exceptional damage, FvS would have even less of an incentive to group.

If the mob makes its save, BB does about the same damage as Wall of Fire. I don't think it's necessary, but I would wish they gave us the option to make a linear BB wall instead of just a circle (PnP allows both).

The biggest problem I have with AoV is that the only way to improve the caster portion of the fvs line would be to give it more offensive spells.

People have been asking for 2 main things; auto crit cc and more damage. I think that after the sorcerer PrE, the damage might be a little bit more reasonable, but if FvS got auto crit cc, there would be -0- reason to bring a caster into epics.

How about it's very hard to get DCs high enough? FvS are 1 DC behind Sorcerers (Cha capstone instead of Wis), and at least 3 behind Wizards (Enhancements, Room for Purchasable past Life feats)

Sorcerers already have a tough time in epics unless they're very well geared to fufill the CC role.

Haste, Rage, Displacement, and Wall of Fire will always make a caster welcome in epics. Having more than 1 class out of 11 capable of reliably CC'ing multiple mobs is a good thing. Not a bad thing.

Favored Souls have always seemed to be more of a melee class with their defensive abilities and weapon specializations, so it's interesting to see that Turbine was thinking about releasing a caster PrE first. From my observation, I have seen many more melee fvs than caster fvs, so it's surprising to see the support for AoV over DA.

Favored Souls are meant to be anything they want to be. They are given divine powers to wield as they wish, whether that be to heal, cast offensive spells, or enhance their melee prowess.

I'm hoping the melee PrE gives FvS a high threat mechanic, to allow them to utilize their relative high defenses outside of solo play.

[vasa00]

/vote for Angel of Vengeance

[jsaving]

I'm surprised at how many people want AoV. I really never see any offensive casting Favored Souls.

That's actually why I think we do need the Angel of Vengeance first. Except for a brief period around level 11, my three melee favored souls have had no problem handling any content in the game including epic play, and are already at the upper end of character power even if they never receive a PrE. Whereas offensive-caster favored souls really start to lag by endgame, suggesting they could use a boost to stay competitive.

In other words, you never seeing offensive casting favored souls = Angel of Vengeance.

The other point of view is that lots of people are enjoying melee favored souls now and would have even more fun if they received a PrE, so why not give them something we know they'll enjoy rather than going forward with an OC PrE that, if botched, might not be enough to make OCs viable at endgame anyway. I can understand and respect this perspective -- like I said, I have three melee favored souls myself (Vulkoor, scimmy, 18/2) and anything that makes them more fun to play would be welcome. But a serious rethinking of offensive casting at endgame is needed and my hope would be that the Angel of Vengeance would kick-start that process.

[Killer-Bee]

I also have both and my vote would be:

Angel of Vengeance

I believe this would help all divines due to the precident set with pale master for new spells getting added to the game.

I suspect Divine Avenger more likely borrowing from the old school melee classes instead of new things being developed.