Community Poll: Divine Avenger or Angel of Vengeance

[BananaHat]

Well, according to Eladrin, we may have some influence on our prestige line. So, please put your vote and feedback as to whether you want the melee line (Divine Avenger) or the offensive caster line (Angel of Vengeance).

Play nice and give constructive input.

[flynnjsw]

I have both so in all honesty it really doesn't matter to me which gets put in first.

[AylinIsAwesome]

AoV; Evokers are currently the weaker ones in Epic, so hopefully this will make them more valued again.

Disclaimer: I have both a Human Evoker and a WF melee FvS.

[kernal42]

AoV; Evokers are currently the weaker ones in Epic, so hopefully this will make them more valued again.

This.

-Kernal

[Attropos]

I'd like to see Divine Avenger first in all honesty, although I have both a caster and a melee fvs.

I would agree that a melee fvs is probably more useful in epics, but casters are by far more useful in non-epics. I also think that giving fvs a melee based pre would help further distinguish between a cleric and a favored soul. Whereas clerics are always casters, it would be nice to see a favored soul get something that enhances the already in place class features that seem to emphasize melee (bonuses to certain weapons, DR, nice saves).

[Tharlak]

Divine Avenger please.

[badbob117]

I guess it would depend on what each pre actually did? I have no idea what each one is gonna do?

I have a offensive casting fvs as well as a WF greatsword swinging one, I grew kinda bored with the class at end game.. My caster fvs is amazing for 95% of the game. The ultimate easy button. Then comes epics. Only a few of my spells work and i cannot hit anything. WF is fun but even that lacks major dps in epic do to the high ac and having to sometimes turn power attack off.

A offensive nuker is almost already indestructible at cap. It is epic where they fall behind. Unless angel of vengeance adds some kind of spell line for epics then i cannot really see myself taking that. We would need something drastic to make a caster fvs useful in epics. It will take more then pumped up dc's and a few more sp to be viable.

I say Divine avenger for the win.! but would be open to trying a AoV if it added some versatility to the class at end game.

[Illiain]

Want? Melee as mine is a melee and I'm biased.

Think is needed more, probably caster.

It's easy to spec for healing as a melee. There's not a whole lot of enhancements based on melee. Once you have a 20 Chr, everything else is pretty easy to plan.

I would imagine trying to fit in both light/alignment and positive/negative lines, along with spell pen would leave AP pretty tight for anything else.

[Gratch]

Melee PRE please. Or just do both at once...

[thewalex]

AoV; Evokers are currently the weaker ones in Epic, so hopefully this will make them more valued again.

Disclaimer: I have both a Human Evoker and a WF melee FvS.

Agreed. My Human Evoker spent a long time as a healer at lower to mid levels until I got my offensive spells. I'd love to see a PrE for this build to unlock its true potential.

[Krag]

The problem of casting divines are not the shortcomings of (pre)classes. It's the lack of tools (read: spells) to do the job.

Even if they were to release a prestige that brings DC to Archmages level, Cometfall will stay niche spell totally outclassed by Mass Hold. Even if they amplified Bladebarriers damage by amazing 50%, kiting epic mobs won't suddenly become a good idea.

Offensive casters desperately need more love but not in a form of a new prestige.



Therefore my vote goes to Divine Avenger. Melee FvS don't need no boost but could certainly use some unique features.

[AylinIsAwesome]

The problem of casting divines are not the shortcomings of (pre)classes. It's the lack of tools (read: spells) to do the job.

Even if they were to release a prestige that brings DC to Archmages level, Cometfall will stay niche spell totally outclassed by Mass Hold. Even if they amplified Bladebarriers damage by amazing 50%, kiting epic mobs won't suddenly become a good idea.

Offensive casters desperately need more love but not in a form of a new prestige.



Therefore my vote goes to Divine Avenger. Melee FvS don't need no boost but could certainly use some unique features.

Offensive Divine Casters do need more spells, but that fact alone is not a good reason why they should not get a boost now. Especially since, as you said, Melee Favoured Souls don't need the more power right now.

[jsaving]

Offensive casters desperately need more love but not in a form of a new prestige.

I agree that a very broad rethinking of DDO's offensive casting system is needed, but we have no idea how long that might take or even whether the rethink would necessarily improve things. So I don't think it is viable to put OC prestige enhancements on hold for the foreseeable future.

As to which prestige class should be first, my vote goes to the Angel of Vengeance. My three melee-oriented favored souls (WF, elf scimmy, and 18/2) would love a power boost, but they're all very viable whether or not they ever get a PrE.

[Wurmheart]

The problem of casting divines are not the shortcomings of (pre)classes. It's the lack of tools (read: spells) to do the job.

Even if they were to release a prestige that brings DC to Archmages level, Cometfall will stay niche spell totally outclassed by Mass Hold. Even if they amplified Bladebarriers damage by amazing 50%, kiting epic mobs won't suddenly become a good idea.

Offensive casters desperately need more love but not in a form of a new prestige.



Therefore my vote goes to Divine Avenger. Melee FvS don't need no boost but could certainly use some unique features.

i'd have to agree with you, and i'd also vote for divine avenger because it might open up some new splashes of fsv to be more usuable. :P

[sirgog]

AoV; Evokers are currently the weaker ones in Epic, so hopefully this will make them more valued again.

Disclaimer: I have both a Human Evoker and a WF melee FvS.

/This (except for the part about having an Evoker).

Wisdom-based FvS's can't do enough damage to warrant inclusion in endgame groups as nukers, they are far behind wizards, sorcs and even bards in crowd control, and so they end up being forced to play as 'healbots with utility'. They have only one truly powerful CC spell (Symbol of Persuasion) and a bunch of mediocre ones (Cometfall, Greater Command, Symbol of Stunning and the Blindness part of Holy Aura). Plus they don't have the spell slots to take all of those without seriously impacting their healing or buffing.

The Bladebarrier that is so overpowered from level 12 to level 17 or so barely does enough to tickle endgame bosses, and is too slow to kill anything else (except in Amrath where mob HP is very low). Plus, Bladebarrier kiting prevents melee party members from attacking the foe being kited.

OTOH, melee souls can put out enough DPS to fill a melee role in a party while also being its sole healer. When you can maintank normal Horoth, elite Suulomades, epic Turigulon and the epic Demon of the Frenzied Deep; when you can solo elite A New Invasion; when you can deal over 16% of Arraetrikos' Normal difficulty HP in damage in one pass while being the only healer - you just don't need the help as much as the Evoker specs do.

[Sirea]

I have both so in all honesty it really doesn't matter to me which gets put in first.

Same here, doesn't matter much to me.

[Killer-Bee]

I also have both and my vote would be:

Angel of Vengeance

I believe this would help all divines due to the precident set with pale master for new spells getting added to the game.

I suspect Divine Avenger more likely borrowing from the old school melee classes instead of new things being developed.

[Chette]

At this point in time, with the game the way it currently is and no other changes, I would have to say Divine Avenger. My reason for this is that for levels 12-20 (non-epic) devine casters are already gods. They really don't need anything else to be able to solo just about any non-epic content. The opposite side of this of course is that their spell selection is very limiting in epic. Unless some additional crowd control, debuff or damage spells are added that would be useful in epic, I don't see a PrE line making much of a difference. I would love to see more flexibility for offensive casters, but I would like to see this come in the form of spells first, and PrE second.

It's my opinion that the Angel of Vengeance PrE will be of more benefit to a melee FvS at this time than a Divine Avenger would be to a caster.

That being said I have both, love both, and would be happy with either.

[Silverleafeon]

Well, if the developers are looking at the favored soul please please consider these situations:

1) Who has the highest light spell in the DDO game?

A) Wizards and Sorcerers: http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Sunburst ;; Should not Clerics and Favored Souls have a better high (8th) level light spell than Wizards and Sorcerers? Just the nature of the classes would suggest this matter.


2) Which light spell does more average damage to the average creature at level twenty: the first level Nimbus of Light spell http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Nimbus_of_Light or the third level Searing Light spell http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Searing_Light ?

A) Searing Light which should lead the charge and is an important capstone spell does 5d8 damage which equals 4.5 X 5 = 22.5 average damage to non undead creatures (there are no/very few high level undead creatures). Nimbus of Light does 1d4+24 damage which equals (2.5 x 1) + 24 = 26.5 average damage.


3) How many Clerics and Favored Souls actually keep the Smiting Enhancement line at level twenty?

A) Most Clerics and Favored Souls retrain their enhancements at around level 17 or before to eliminate the smiting enhancement lineup. The only possible exception is the underpower Silver Flame Capstone Users which others have mathematically proven is inferior to use at level twenty due to low power/high cooldown timer.


4) Why are some people suggesting suggesting to do the melee prestigue class over the caster prestigue class?

A) Because everyone picks the exact same spells to use as a Favored Soul; however if a handful of quality new spells were introduced then the whole picture would change.

[aristarchus1000]

Caster FvS's, and divine casters in general, are unstoppable before epics, so any Pre will need to be carefully tuned to not overpower them even more in pre-epic content while making offensive casting viable in epics.

Personally, I don't think this is something that can be done in a Pre. It requires new spells, and reworking a lot of epic content. This is not a small project like a class Pre.