Raise warforged arcane spell

[Master_of_None]

How about an arcane spell that would function as a raise dead for warforged (only)? Since arcanes get the repair line of spells for warforged, it would be a convenience for them to be able to raise them as well.

[Tumarek]

Sure... as long as normal raise dead doesnt work anymore.

[mystafyi]

I wouldnt mind seeing that... but then all divine healing/raise spells shouldnt work at all on them... unless your just asking for more /win buttons and want both sides of the coin

[Rasczak]

You have a caster without UMD?

[Calebro]

You have a caster without UMD?

My thoughts exactly. Wizards have nothing better to spend their 9 million skill points on, and Sorcerers have crazy high Cha scores making UMD an obvious choice.
An arcane without UMD is just silly.

[donfilibuster]

/notsigned
dead wf is dead, arcanes don't have the power to raise from death.
a repaired wf would be nothing but an animated object.
animate object is a spell arcanes should have, but it doesn't help with the suggestion sorry.

[ganondalf]

My thoughts exactly. Wizards have nothing better to spend their 9 million skill points on, and Sorcerers have crazy high Cha scores making UMD an obvious choice.
An arcane without UMD is just silly.

A warforged wizard who uses cha as a dump stat and puts max points into it will have 10 by level 20, 11 if using a +2 cha tome and 14 if using +2 con tome and a +6 cha item. I don't see how this is worth wasting points on if you can't even get it high enough to wand whip with a cure light.

That being said, UMD not being a wizard class skill is completely ridiculous, since a wizard strives to understand everything magical.

[voodoogroves]

11 ranks + 1 cha (6 base plus slot on a +6 item) + 4 GH + 2 luck + 2-5 item (command, cartouche, hat, etc.) ... 20 ... not no-fail but you've got a shot (25%) on raise dead. That assumes a command item (WF can quickly swap in a docent of command) but Cartouche gives another boost, more CHA as well, etc. etc.

[Calebro]

A warforged wizard who uses cha as a dump stat and puts max points into it will have 10 by level 20, 11 if using a +2 cha tome and 14 if using +2 con tome and a +6 cha item. I don't see how this is worth wasting points on if you can't even get it high enough to wand whip with a cure light.

Assuming 6 starting Cha, +2 tome, +6 item swap
11 ranks
2 Cha mod
5 GS SP item
4 GH
3 Cartouche
-----
25 easily obtained with gear that isn't difficult to farm and/or craft

That being said, UMD not being a wizard class skill is completely ridiculous, since a wizard strives to understand everything magical.

It isn't ridiculous if you understand the reasons.
The idea behind UMD is that you are *tricking* the item into believing that you meet the needed requirements to use it. That's why it's a Rogue/Bard class skill.

Arcane and divine casters draw their magic from different sources, in different ways.
Arcanes can't commune with the gods and draw magic from them, and divines don't understand the complex gestures, etc, that draw magic from the world.
That's why there is no check needed for any wand/scroll of any spell that is available on your spell list. No *tricking* needed.
Understanding one source of magical power does not give you understanding of the other.

example:
Astrophysics and Chemistry are both sciences.
Just because you study Chemistry, and have a PhD in said Chem, doesn't mean you know anything about Astrophysics.

[Mighty_Bozo]

My WF Wiz with base Charisma 6 has:
UMD 11 (Base)
+2 (Charisma Bonus) (Charisma 6 + 6 Item +2 Tome)
+2 (Luck Bonus) (Head of good fortune)
+6 (Exceptional Bonus) (Shroud Cha Item)
+4 (GH)
+3 (Competence Bonus) (Cartouche)
+3 (Enhancement Bonus) (Big Top)

Final UMD = 31. That's 75% chance using Raise dead scroll. Just have to equip some stuff be4 actually using it ;-)

[ganondalf]

It isn't ridiculous if you understand the reasons.
The idea behind UMD is that you are *tricking* the item into believing that you meet the needed requirements to use it. That's why it's a Rogue/Bard class skill.

That doesn't make a lick of sense. Are you telling me that scrolls and wands have a mind of their own, or that umd is a type of magic on of itself? How exactly do you "trick" a piece of parchment or a length of wood?

[Master_of_None]

You have a caster without UMD?

I solo a fair amount. When Turbine provides wizard and sorc hirelings with UMD and raise scrolls (or heck, lets me buy scrolls that hirelings can use), my problem will be over.

Sure... as long as normal raise dead doesnt work anymore.

Seems a little too severe, given that cure spells still work for half. I have no problem with some similar handicap for raising, such as wf only being raised with half the normal hitpoints. Or even raise dead not working at all, and only resurrection or true resurrection working on warforged.

I'm not going to get into the issue of arcane vs. divine magic; it's purely a gameplay question for me. It's annoying to have to choose between an arcane hireling if I want normal healing and a divine hireling if I want the possibility of being raised. If everyone expects arcane casters, or at least sorcs, to have the UMD to use raise dead scrolls, I don't get why it would be hugely imbalancing for arcanes to have a spell of their own only usable on warforged for the same purpose.

[Calebro]

That doesn't make a lick of sense. Are you telling me that scrolls and wands have a mind of their own, or that umd is a type of magic on of itself? How exactly do you "trick" a piece of parchment or a length of wood?

The numbers are different for this game because UMD is so powerful, but any information that you may need is here.
Scrolls, for example, require that you are an arcane or divine caster of appropriate level who has that spell on their spell list.

And I'd just like to point out that I find it quite humorous that a member of Sublime is the one asking for this.

[Eistander]

That doesn't make a lick of sense. Are you telling me that scrolls and wands have a mind of their own, or that umd is a type of magic on of itself? How exactly do you "trick" a piece of parchment or a length of wood?

I'll go out on a limb here and perhaps try to put it into a different perspective (I played rogues in PnP a lot, so I guess I have something of a background heh); with the skill, you are not so much "tricking" the item/scroll in question, as much as your character understands enough to "fake" the ability to use the item.. think of it as picking up tidbits of how the whole process works then winging it. Rogues by trade are crafty, and often rather intelligent (if you go by the basis of a rogue, not going by DDO standards), so through watching other arcane-devoted people working their craft, they pick up on the motions/words of the use of the devices. Bards are in the same boat, being performers, they in effect "mimic" the arcane's methods. Hence the UMD skill.

But on a related note regarding the suggestion, arcane casters at best can animate things; their power doesn't fall into the restoration of life force (ie.: resurrecting the dead in the traditional sense) but rather shape and warp the existing world around them. In other words, the divine miracle of bringing the dead back to life and not leaving the target a zombie is what the divine casters do. So no, it wouldn't work, at least not in the way you suggested.

[Broldin]

Yeah, because WF arcanes aren't powerful enough already. There's already little reason to roll an arcane of any other race. You want to give more benefit to being WF?

[Antheal]

Maybe if there was something like an "Greatest Dragonmark of Making" for the people of House Cannith to re-imbue a dead Warforged with mystical energy...

Then the Greatest Dragonmark of Healing could be Raise Dead, for example.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Granted! Arcanes can now cast "summon repair bloke" whereby within a quoted eta of 2 hours (in reality up to 8 depending on traffic & union rules regarding lunch hours etc) an npc will arrive, charge you 5k pp for call-out & then go "oohhhh that's gonna cost ya" before ordering parts that will take another week to arrive and cost you a further 25k pp, not work and then suggest that you simply reroll.

...wait, this isn't the corrupt a wish thread is it?

[Crystalizer]

...That being said, UMD not being a wizard class skill is completely ridiculous, since a wizard strives to understand everything magical.

best phrase of the whole thread

[learst]

I'll go out on a limb here and perhaps try to put it into a different perspective (I played rogues in PnP a lot, so I guess I have something of a background heh); with the skill, you are not so much "tricking" the item/scroll in question, as much as your character understands enough to "fake" the ability to use the item.. think of it as picking up tidbits of how the whole process works then winging it. Rogues by trade are crafty, and often rather intelligent (if you go by the basis of a rogue, not going by DDO standards), so through watching other arcane-devoted people working their craft, they pick up on the motions/words of the use of the devices. Bards are in the same boat, being performers, they in effect "mimic" the arcane's methods. Hence the UMD skill.

But on a related note regarding the suggestion, arcane casters at best can animate things; their power doesn't fall into the restoration of life force (ie.: resurrecting the dead in the traditional sense) but rather shape and warp the existing world around them. In other words, the divine miracle of bringing the dead back to life and not leaving the target a zombie is what the divine casters do. So no, it wouldn't work, at least not in the way you suggested.

Good explanation. +1

[Lorz]

That doesn't make a lick of sense. Are you telling me that scrolls and wands have a mind of their own, or that umd is a type of magic on of itself? How exactly do you "trick" a piece of parchment or a length of wood?

Well i am truly sorry you dont accept that this is how UMD works.

But yes if you have a wiz or sorc without it....you have missed a powerful step.

UMD...it is more powerful than you know.


/back on subject. not signed. use raise dead with umd....or get a rez ring or craft a rez clicky.