Change Epic Wizard King

[krackythehoodedone]

Ok it's easy if your an experienced player with a good build and great kit. And yes if you solo of course cooking 3 zillion undead at gas mark 3.5 is gonna take time. What do you expect

A great party will destroy Wizz King Epic in 35 mins.

But remember those going through Wizzy on auto pilot are the tiny minority. For most of us dilemma doesnt mean the shockingly hard choice between donning the Epic Mari Chain or The Red Dragon Armour

And i bet all you guys groaning at how easy it is have had a few disasters in the ''good ole days'' Before even a dirty look from your Epic item loaded toon caused every mob within 300ft to spontaneously combust (ok 310 if ur names axer )

But for those not so epic in epics it's a real hard test. And you know for these guys it's probably a whole lot more fun to come through. I kinda envy them.

Pugged a wizzy last nite. One really solid Clonk (me) and one really good caster. Another Cleric and three melees all fairly new to epics (at least desert epics in any case). I wasnt PL but found out when we started fighting the undead that the melees didnt have blunt holies and some didnt have disease immunity. We made it . Loads of deaths,almost wiped a few times,end fight was a SOB...

But the party had a real blast and their was a real sense of achievement amongst the players.

Their will also be a sudden increase in the number of triple pos mauls and disease immunity devices in the world

[grodon9999]

. . .that the melees didnt have blunt holies and some didnt have disease immunity.

Pet peeve of mine . . . I swear some players are just Fing retarted about this and don't understan how important is to break DR. Was in an SoS pug this weekend where I was the only one with blunt weapons and it took forever. As in forever I mean the caster and divine ran out of SP, everyone died but my Ranger who finished off Sorjeck. Telling these idiots that they need blunt weapons was talking to a wall, it just didn't sink in. The didn't have them or were too stupid to use them.

How the hell do you get to Epic Wiz king without blunt weapons?

[sephiroth1084]

For some, usually the woefully undergeared, this quest still poses a significant challenge. I can't go more than a few weeks without hearing about somebody finally coming through a 3 or 4 hour Epic Wiz-King run and groaning to myself.

Usually it is a lack of proper weapons.

[morticianjohn]

This was my first epic. Hit an LFM with 3 clr already in the party joined with my clr. They had started and were up to the golems. It was only my 2nd time doing the wiz king. I did it once on elite while I was lvl 20. One guy had all of his gear broken and kept dying. We were using bb and kiting mobs. The naked guy left we got someone to fill his slot. We finally reached the wiz king.

Didn't know about any trap tactic and tried to heal him to death. We had to take a d door back to the shrines 3 or 4 times before he finally died. I think there were about 80 deaths on our side. I finished out only to find out that we were supposed to do the optional to get the good loot. Still I didn't have any more time cause it took 3 hours. longer for the ones who started before me. After running a couple of other epics I can see some things that our party was lacking.

I would also agree about the wiz king chest being the better chest. It's an epic fight and there should be epic rewards in there.

[lugoman]

If you chose to, it's more fun to just beat his ass down.

I do think the wiz king boss encounter is pretty fun if you kill him without kiting. The wraiths and disintegrates make it pretty chaotic and fun. The trouble is convincing everyone in the group to do it this way. After spending so much time in there not many want to risk all the investment.

[grodon9999]

I do think the wiz king boss encounter is pretty fun if you kill him without kiting. The wraiths and disintegrates make it pretty chaotic and fun. The trouble is convincing everyone in the group to do it this way. After spending so much time in there not many want to risk all the investment.

Stop running with panzies

There a little "LEEERRRRROOOOOy JENNNNNKKKKKINNNNNNNNSSS" in all of us.

[Ethiel]

Stop running with panzies

There a little "LEEERRRRROOOOOy JENNNNNKKKKKINNNNNNNNSSS" in all of us.

There is alot of leroy in you, Mr junk

[Xyfiel]

Shade, were you not the first person to suggest "nerfing" epics? Had a whole thread on it?

Best of the best or geared the best? Getting gear is just time, luck, and playing the right quests. How many could lose the gear and still be the best? Lots of people are only great because of gear, and for many hard quests, it is all about beating the ai anyway. Case in point, I never took time to get silver flame pots on my Barb, so he can't solo quests others can. Does that make me not as skilled as barbs who have them? How much harder is epics to a group who has no greensteel?

[PopeJual]

Then why did he specificly call out the epic version?

I'm guessing it's because no one really cares about the extra chests in the N/H/E version.

[PopeJual]

Pet peeve of mine . . . I swear some players are just Fing retarted about this and don't understan how important is to break DR. Was in an SoS pug this weekend where I was the only one with blunt weapons and it took forever. As in forever I mean the caster and divine ran out of SP, everyone died but my Ranger who finished off Sorjeck. Telling these idiots that they need blunt weapons was talking to a wall, it just didn't sink in. The didn't have them or were too stupid to use them.

How the hell do you get to Epic Wiz king without blunt weapons?

I recently capped a Heavy Pick Kensai III and I'm having an absolute blast with him.

The first weapon that I crafted was a Pos/Pos Warhammer because I have no UMD and I knew that I'd be up a creek if my nannybot died.

The second and third weapons that I crafted were a pair of Maiming Rocksplitters with the Force Crit ritual added.

The fourth weapon that I crafted was another Pos/Pos Warhammer. I can already beat the stuffing out of everything else with either the pair of Rocksplitters or a pair of Icy Burst Wounding of Pure Good picks or a pair of Metalline of Pure Good picks. All that's left are skeletons and liches.



(This message has been paid for by the Ad Council as a public service message on behalf of the Committee To Get People To Pony Up A Small Shard Or Two To Make A Dang Skelly Beater.)

[Auran82]

As mentioned earlier, the chest you get after you kill the Wizking should be the epic one with a full token and a chance to drop shards.

The other chests around the dungeon should have a chance to drop seals.

The 3 chests in the treasure room should have a chance to drop both seals and scrolls as well as other special epic items (whether fully made epic items, augment crystals like in Epic DA whatever) Really, the same can be said about some of the chests in epic Chains of Flame, like the one behind the locked door.

There should probably also be extra chests in some epic quests for some objectives like trap disabling in Wizking and saving all the prisoners in Chains (I have never seen this done in a normal run)

Wizking is (from memory) the only epic quest, that you can finish and potentially not get an epic chest, but still be put on timer.

I'm pretty sure the only thing that makes wraiths 'challenging' is the fact they phase in and out constantly, nothing really challenging about swinging at the air hoping to get a hit or two in before they vanish again.

[sephiroth1084]

Wizking is (from memory) the only epic quest, that you can finish and potentially not get an epic chest, but still be put on timer.

Actually, Into the Deep has the problem/possibility: You complete the quest after killing the head shaman fish, but don't get an epic chest until you go kill the Hezrou. Really poor implementation, I think, and I haven't ever had this problem come up--I know I'd be ****ed if I ended up running one of these, completing and then failing on the way to unlocking the epic chest and being locked out of trying again.

[sirgog]

Actually, Into the Deep has the problem/possibility: You complete the quest after killing the head shaman fish, but don't get an epic chest until you go kill the Hezrou. Really poor implementation, I think, and I haven't ever had this problem come up--I know I'd be ****ed if I ended up running one of these, completing and then failing on the way to unlocking the epic chest and being locked out of trying again.

I'm actually fine with the possibility of getting shafted on the final chest, as long as there's some prospect of getting something worthwhile out of the run. Now that Epic Into the Deep drops the Dampened Frozen Plate and (I've heard but cannot confirm) the Dampened Greatclub of the Scrag, it's not so bad. IMO the Priestess should have a chest with fragments and a low chance at a shard; then the Hezrou could safely be made even harder.

I think Epic in general needs reworked, not just Raiyum. Epic at this time isn't about being the best of the best, its about knowing the cheap tricks to make it through the dungeon. Its an absurd notion to me that the strategy for beating Raiyum is to lure him into a trap and plant him there, no need for quality gear or awesome DPS.

I've never seen Raiyum killed this way, and before the two nerfs it's been through, I ran WK at least 3-4 times a week. Always approached that fight with the arcane kiting (or killing) wraiths, all the rest beating on Raiyum with blunt weapons, and the Clr/FvS casting big group heals as required. Raiyum really struggles to kill 550hp toons that have Cold Resist and are getting a Mass Heal every 7 seconds, and can only really do it when you fail a Disintegrate save (400 damage from that, plus a Horrid Wilting finishes you off).

[sephiroth1084]

I'm actually fine with the possibility of getting shafted on the final chest, as long as there's some prospect of getting something worthwhile out of the run. Now that Epic Into the Deep drops the Dampened Frozen Plate and (I've heard but cannot confirm) the Dampened Greatclub of the Scrag, it's not so bad. IMO the Priestess should have a chest with fragments and a low chance at a shard; then the Hezrou could safely be made even harder.

The chests dropping the basic, level 7ish named loot isn't much of an incentive.

Why the newer epic content has moved away from including seals in their chests, I can't understand. If the devs wanted to allocate seals to only specific quests and to consolidate shards in one raid-like quest, then they should have stuck scrolls in all of the other chests or something. I hate running epic quests and opening useless chest after useless chest.

Giving the Priestess a chest with an epic TOKEN in it, and chance (low or otherwise) at shards, or seals, or scrolls, and then having the Hezrou chest drop shards, and maybe give another token...that I would like. But if that kind of change is too "easy button" for some people, I'd also be happy with their simply changing the quest completion to be dependent upon killing the Hezrou--dropping the Priestess would simply open the way to the end, as it does now, but without completing the quest. Ditto for Raiyum

Honestly, though, Into the Deep and Raiyum (and Chains and VoN 3 and 4) could all probably stand to give 2 epic tokens, but that's another issue (I also think we need to go back to every epic quest giving a full token as this fragment **** does nothing except exacerbate the grind).

I've never seen Raiyum killed this way, and before the two nerfs it's been through, I ran WK at least 3-4 times a week. Always approached that fight with the arcane kiting (or killing) wraiths, all the rest beating on Raiyum with blunt weapons, and the Clr/FvS casting big group heals as required. Raiyum really struggles to kill 550hp toons that have Cold Resist and are getting a Mass Heal every 7 seconds, and can only really do it when you fail a Disintegrate save (400 damage from that, plus a Horrid Wilting finishes you off).

Yeah, I have no idea what this kiting strategy is either. Caster deals with wraiths while melees surround Raiyum or block him against a wall and beat him down.

[Sarisa]

Invis'ing and taking Raiyum through traps I mostly see done on shortman or all caster groups. It's 20-30 minutes of boredom, is cheesy, but works.