Raise the ML of GS weapons/equipment

[ahpook]

You can run each vale quest ONCE and, if you're really lucky, shroud ONCE and have a tier 3 GS. As long as you pull/with the roll on shards you can build it. All you gotta do is pay for your ingredients.

You know that isn't actually a good argument for leaving them at ML12. Perhaps that was your intent.

While I agree that ML of GS items were borked out of the gate and they should have been higher, the S-Storm that will hit if you try to affect people's toys make this a non-starter. As demonstrated in this thread, the political backlash is too great to make the OP's suggestion viable.


My biggest complaint about the ML 12 is the precedence factor. The number of arguments I see that use this fact (Lit II is an ML12 (or less!) effect) to suggest overpowered items should be available earlier is sad.

[Hokiewa]

? Dude what are you talking about? Your post said you 'make fun' of people for using GS in Gianthold. Why? I'm guessing you haven't run the same content over and over and over enough to justify that. Sure anyone that uses GS in Gianthold could probably use whatever you use, but the fact that they use something better is probably more fun for them. Whatever makes the same old boring content quicker and more fun, I'm all for it.

GS is earned, by either grinding or plat it's still earned. Don't hate.

Appreciate.

[Chai]

true, you could run shroud as a level 12, it is just unlikely i guess.





Yes, TRs worked for it, does this mean epic equipment should be level 12 also? should epic SoS be ML 14 because TRs "worked for it"? No. A pair of Lit IIs in Gianthold trivializes enemies. Simply put, they do waaaaay too much damage for lv 12 weapons, exceeding by orders of magnitude damage from other ml 12 weps. Heck, they do this at level 16 too, but as said, they are hard to get.

I am operating under normal assumptions here, even if a level 16 runs Shroud at level, said person will have advanced to, say, level 18 at least before he/she has crafted a 3rd tier gs. True you could run it at lv 14, but by the time you have enough ingredients, you will have gotten to lv 16 or so, unless you only ran shroud over and over and played nothing else.

Lit2 isnt that much better than holy pure good with icy burst on it from the ice games if you count out the ~500 point lightning strike - most of which is wasted damage on GH opponents anyhow.

Your statement is a technicality. The only thing bottlenecking level 12s and 13s from having shroud items whenever they want even in first life is the shards. The fact that people run this 17-20 is a convenience factor of having an easy raid run and nothing more. Since 6 solid 20s can run the shroud without a hitch, I could pike a level 12 first lifer into the quest with guildys and get shards, and use S/M/L ingredients from the 3+ years of shroud farming on other toons to crank out a weapon.

Wait wait, stop the train: Did you just compare eSOS to shroud weapons?

[doubledge]

wait Wait, Stop The Train: Did You Just Compare Esos To Shroud Weapons?

Win!

[Unreliable]

/notsigned

This isn't Communism, if you work for something you should be at an advantage at level 12 with someone who hasn't worked for a GS. Effort = Reward.

[rest]

You know that isn't actually a good argument for leaving them at ML12. Perhaps that was your intent.

I'd prefer to keep them at 12 but at the end of the day I'll have a blast playing whether or not I have green steel or raid loot or epic items.

I'm a good player with lame gear. I can get the stuff done. Loot is not my crutch

[testing1234]

is GS overpower at lvl12?
not sure i agree with the OriginalPoster that GS is OverPowered at lvl12.
OP and many others didnt attempt to give any numbers to this fact so its bit hard to attack the assumptions details since none were given but i will attempt.
im not saying that there are lvl12 randomly generated weapons thats higher damage then a dual GS BUT is it so close that you cant say OP or is it not pure DPS weapons that are the best at this lvl is a simple icy burst paralyzer the superiour choice to a GS at lvl12?

the fact is that a GS is extremly expensive
think you could call the GS weapon the most expensive weapon in the game, while the eSoS and other epic weapons are hard work to get hard to translate that into pp.
you cant very well compare the most expensive weapon in the game with normal trash weapons you need compare it to the most expensive twink equipment available and are you sure thats in fact the GS is the best choice at lvl12?
its not all about dps to same extent down at lvl12.
a few competetors to a lvl12 GS
-you could buy a +3 icy burst wounding of puncturing weapon, its still a amazing weapon at lvl12, is it a faster killer then a lit2 or rad2 ... problay not in almost all quests but its a well worth considering especially for non str chars.
-could chose a simple +5 icy burst holy of pure good weapon, 4d6 extra damage +5tohit and a burst effect to boot is this really that much worse then a lit2? and its very very very cheap compared to a GS. adding force ritual to this and the GS just closes the gap even more as less difference.
at RR lvl14 you could have a +5holyburst icyburst of pure good waiting for your character
-a RR lvl8 +1 icyburst disruptor and a lvl8 +1 icyburst banisher and a RR lvl8 +1 icy burst paralyzer sure at max lvls its dps and vorpals and possible stunners but low lvl these special effects are amazingly powerful, a nice combination of very good smiter/stunner/paralyser/banisher/disruptor and you likely have a better weapon then a GS for a significant amount of the lvl12ish content up to lvl17-18ish were these start to die.

as a summation do not think that a really twinked lvl12 character is much weaker then a lvl12 GS player
-----------------
what about the eternal CasterVsMelee question?
is there more to consider then comparing lvl12weapon against lvl12GS should you maybe also compare a lvl12 wizard against a lvl12 melee with GS.
think most agree with me when i say that a lvl12 caster lvls faster then a lvl12melee even if the melee have GS. seen a few very good melee TR lvlers that plays solo to great success and skill but most of these easily admits that a skilled caster can help them run it faster and many of them indeed finds duo partners among the casters classes since most melees simply slows them down.
if even a TR GS melee cant compare to the lvling speed of a caster should we decrease the lvling speed of melee TRs and as such increse the gap even more between caster and melee TR.
some may call this besides the point and saying 1 wrong does not make another wrong right but i still think it has bearing on the matter.
-----------
shroud came out a long time ago and GS has been around for a very long time with lvl12 req, to change someting thats been there a very long time normally you need a overwhelming reason to outweigh the
"its always been like that" mentality
-----------

You can run each vale quest ONCE and, if you're really lucky, shroud ONCE and have a tier 3 GS. As long as you pull/with the roll on shards you can build it. All you gotta do is pay for your ingredients.

you can also win millions on a simpe lotto ticket !!!
im not kidding you really can win millions from a single lotto ticket costing 1$
if you tell only a very little bit of the truth its almost the same as lying dont think i need to spell it our what i mean.


all this said id not be heartbroken if they raised GS to lvl14 but do think 16 is to high but id rather they just keep it lvl12 as a twinked lvl12 is way overpowered even without GS.

[OLDTIMEDD]

Have not read all these but as I have reached lvl 20 and hve NO GS items crafted (mainly due to personal uncertainty of how to start or even what to start with). So some of the observations I have read (first page of thread only) seem untrue as people IMXP can out level quests by merely trying to get certain favor goals or as I did , completed most of the wilderness areas slayer/rares. I mught be wrong but seems that somethings ae not always as clear as they seem as you go around person by person.....

Just my humble if not skewed op

[bryanmeerkat]

Raise ML of GS to 16, This is the level of Normal Shroud, and it takes ~20 runs to get enough ingredients for a double imbued GS anyway, not to mention that usually only lv 17+s are let into shrouds.

Normal Shrouds level 17 isnt it ?

Also if you want to run shroud at 16 just open a pug with lv 16-20 shroud . I have stopped leveling my main at 16 at the moment and I run shrouds every 3 days. This is pugging , with a decent guild it would be even easier .

[hermespan]

http://www.ridhughz.demon.co.uk/wav/sword.wav

All joking aside. no way.

[Tumarek]

/notsigned

This isn't Communism, if you work for something you should be at an advantage at level 12 with someone who hasn't worked for a GS. Effort = Reward.

Communists had Minimum Levels? Like level 4 to eat bananas and level 14 to drive a car?

[Chai]

-----------
shroud came out a long time ago and GS has been around for a very long time with lvl12 req, to change someting thats been there a very long time normally you need a overwhelming reason to outweigh the
"its always been like that" mentality
-----------

you can also win millions on a simpe lotto ticket !!!
im not kidding you really can win millions from a single lotto ticket costing 1$
if you tell only a very little bit of the truth its almost the same as lying dont think i need to spell it our what i mean.

That is not an equivilent analogy by a long shot. Lie to me jerry, lie to me....

The individuals who have been playing this game for a long time not only have capped gold on multiple toons, they also have a large amount of crafting ingredients in their ingredient bags. 6 solid level 20s can run the shroud, NP, and alot of these peoples toons dont need shards any longer - the only reason why they run them through the shroud is to get ingredients for their new alts.

I can pike a 12-16 level toon through these guild runs to get the shards I need handed to me and have the rest of the ingredients already from farming for three years. I can then craft on the ship, or in the guild run I piled on to.

To make a more accurate analogy, its not akin to winning the lottery, its akin to having bought low price stock in GS 3 years ago, and seeing it split numerous times. Now its a built in short cut for those people who have already done 95% of the work on other toons, and stuck with this game for those years when all we had at the high end was farming the shroud.

Hey OP, you shoulda bought stock in greensteel in '07 bro - it would be paying off in spades for you now.

[elraido]

Come on. When it was released, the cap was 16. People were running it with levels 12's and up all the time for the xp. It just happens to be that when the cap goes up, the runs become quicker and easier with higher leveled toons who have more gear. I mean how do you think people beat the mission with out greensteels?

[hermespan]

all this said id not be heartbroken if they raised GS to lvl14 but do think 16 is to high but id rather they just keep it lvl12 as a twinked lvl12 is way overpowered even without GS.

A properly built level 12 with korthos gear is overpowered compared to some people.

[doubledge]

second thought, lower dragontouched armor to level 12, to make it on par with greensteel.

[rest]

Hey OP, you shoulda bought stock in greensteel in '07 bro - it would be paying off in spades for you now.

I lol'd

[pSINNa]

Torc of Prince Raiyum, ml 11
Bards Cloak, ml 13
Glacial Bracers ml 13
Tumbleweed ml 13
Ring of Thelis ml 13
Minos Legans ml 11
Tharne's Goggles, ml 13
Bloodstone, ml 9
Planar Gird ml 9
Chaos Blade, ml 12 ? (i think, could be out there).
Leviks Bracers, ml 13
Greensteel items ml 11
Greensteel weapons ml 12
Belt of the Moranon ml 9

Are you seeing a pattern here? Most of those items are beyond banzai!. (i've only listed my favourites, there are many more like that)

Should we whack them all with the nerfbat?

So on a triple TR, after slogging from 1-10 it's where you get that warm glow.

/not signed

Coit out~

[doubledge]

Torc of Prince Raiyum, ml 11
Bards Cloak, ml 13
Glacial Bracers ml 13
Tumbleweed ml 13
Ring of Thelis ml 13
Minos Legans ml 11
Tharne's Goggles, ml 13
Bloodstone, ml 9
Planar Gird ml 9
Chaos Blade, ml 12 ? (i think, could be out there).
Leviks Bracers, ml 13
Greensteel items ml 11
Greensteel weapons ml 12
Belt of the Moranon ml 9

Are you seeing a pattern here? Most of those items are beyond banzai!. (i've only listed my favourites, there are many more like that)

Should we whack them all with the nerfbat?

So on a triple TR, after slogging from 1-10 it's where you get that warm glow.

/not signed

Coit out~

if they kill any of BUT BARD'S CLOAK, this game is never getting any of my money ever again.

:edit couldn't care less about bards cloak tho.

[sephiroth1084]

If they'd done this long before TRing came about, it wouldn't have been an issue, but it's too late now. The reasoning behind raising the ML at this point is much weaker than the argument for keeping it as it is for TRs.

Also, any time someone makes this suggestion without also pointing at all the ridiculous low-level raid gear as well makes me feel rather dismissive of the poster's point. The Torc does much more for a caster when it becomes available than any greensteel item does. A few other epic items are close in power level to greensteel weaponry in the 12-14 range.

Unless we get a complete overhaul of the loot system as a whole, I am dead set against raising the ML on greensteel.

[Blank_Zero]

true, you could run shroud as a level 12, it is just unlikely i guess.

Didn't Hordo run it at lvl 4?

Yes, TRs worked for it, does this mean epic equipment should be level 12 also? should epic SoS be ML 14 because TRs "worked for it"? No. A pair of Lit IIs in Gianthold trivializes enemies. Simply put, they do waaaaay too much damage for lv 12 weapons, exceeding by orders of magnitude damage from other ml 12 weps. Heck, they do this at level 16 too, but as said, they are hard to get.

Epic equipment is ML20 because it is EPIC.

And of course they exceed other weapons at ML12... as much grind as we do to get them how we want em, they better be effing powerful.

/not signed