Raise the ML of GS weapons/equipment

[stille_nacht]

Nevermind, i changed my mind after the 10 neg reps.

I was wrong, TRs should totally be able to have lv 12 GS weapons

It is entirely possible to get them at level 12.

[Propane]

not signed -

You can run shroud with levels 14-16 - just need to slow down and use a little more teamwork.

The main reason you don't see this more often on the LFM is the xp hit you take from the higher levels joining...

[Sneakee]

There is absolutely no need to do this. What is your reasoning??


Because Lvl 12 TR's can utilize the gear that they have already worked for??

[Qezuzu]

Raise ML of GS to 16, This is the level of Normal Shroud, and it takes ~20 runs to get enough ingredients for a double imbued GS anyway, not to mention that usually only lv 17+s are let into shrouds. There is no way to obtain one by 12 unless one is a TR, and extremely unlikely one will obtain them by level 16 anyway, so it would still be advantageous to TRs...

I am pretty sure raising the ML of an item set is not too difficult, but i might be wrong...

Why? To **** off people who TR?

Abbot is also run above level, and so is Reaver's/VoD/HoX. Should their raid loot's ML also be raised?

What rational reason is there for prohibiting TR's from aquiring items (at "low" levels) that they've already worked for?

[k1ngp1n]

There is no way to obtain one by 12 unless one is a TR,

That would be an incorrect statement.

[rest]

No thanks.

[DelScorcho]

so it would still be advantageous to TRs...

That word "advantageous". I don't think it means what you think it means.

[stille_nacht]

That would be an incorrect statement.

true, you could run shroud as a level 12, it is just unlikely i guess.

Why? To **** off people who TR?

Abbot is also run above level, and so is Reaver's/VoD/HoX. Should their raid loot's ML also be raised?

What rational reason is there for prohibiting TR's from aquiring items (at "low" levels) that they've already worked for?

Yes, TRs worked for it, does this mean epic equipment should be level 12 also? should epic SoS be ML 14 because TRs "worked for it"? No. A pair of Lit IIs in Gianthold trivializes enemies. Simply put, they do waaaaay too much damage for lv 12 weapons, exceeding by orders of magnitude damage from other ml 12 weps. Heck, they do this at level 16 too, but as said, they are hard to get.

I am operating under normal assumptions here, even if a level 16 runs Shroud at level, said person will have advanced to, say, level 18 at least before he/she has crafted a 3rd tier gs. True you could run it at lv 14, but by the time you have enough ingredients, you will have gotten to lv 16 or so, unless you only ran shroud over and over and played nothing else.

[Memnir]

No thank you.

[Tobril]

Dear developers,

Please take away all my stuff.

Thank you,

T

[Four20]

no sir, i dont like it.

[jwdaniels]

My level 16 cleric has 16 shroud completions - it's not hard to run that under-leveled, it just takes longer and requires everyone have half a brain. Those are two of the reasons why you see groups of 18 - 20. That and when a level 20 sets an lfm, the default range is 18 - 20.

If you want to join a shroud under level, just click and you will more often than not be let in if the raid leader isn't a noob, unless they need healers and you're an arcane or something.

As far as the OP is concerned, the ML of items is based on the items powers, rarity and binding status not on the level of the quest(s) where you find the item. Also, you should know that you can buy ingredients off the auction house (except shards which I think you can find in other quests) and craft on altars in guild ships, so I am fairly certain you can have greensteel items (certainly unupgraded for sure, but I think even fully crafted) without ever setting foot in the Shroud.

[rest]

true, you could run shroud as a level 12, it is just unlikely i guess.





Yes, TRs worked for it, does this mean epic equipment should be level 12 also? should epic SoS be ML 14 because TRs "worked for it"? No. A pair of Lit IIs in Gianthold trivializes enemies. Simply put, they do waaaaay too much damage for lv 12 weapons, exceeding by orders of magnitude damage from other ml 12 weps. Heck, they do this at level 16 too, but as said, they are hard to get.

I am operating under normal assumptions here, even if a level 16 runs Shroud at level, said person will have advanced to, say, level 18 at least before he/she has crafted a 3rd tier gs. True you could run it at lv 14, but by the time you have enough ingredients, you will have gotten to lv 16 or so, unless you only ran shroud over and over and played nothing else.

You can run each vale quest ONCE and, if you're really lucky, shroud ONCE and have a tier 3 GS. As long as you pull/with the roll on shards you can build it. All you gotta do is pay for your ingredients.

[quickgrif]

true, you could run shroud as a level 12, it is just unlikely i guess.





Yes, TRs worked for it, does this mean epic equipment should be level 12 also? should epic SoS be ML 14 because TRs "worked for it"? No. A pair of Lit IIs in Gianthold trivializes enemies. Simply put, they do waaaaay too much damage for lv 12 weapons, exceeding by orders of magnitude damage from other ml 12 weps. Heck, they do this at level 16 too, but as said, they are hard to get.

I am operating under normal assumptions here, even if a level 16 runs Shroud at level, said person will have advanced to, say, level 18 at least before he/she has crafted a 3rd tier gs. True you could run it at lv 14, but by the time you have enough ingredients, you will have gotten to lv 16 or so, unless you only ran shroud over and over and played nothing else.

Unless you run with a group that gives you the crystals you need and you either get you ingredients from friends, or auction house, or maybe even from one of your other char that had farmed it.

What practical use would be to raising the level in your reasoning?

[Jay203]

the problem doesn't lie in the fact that the TRs can use them again at lvl 12
the problem lies in how over-powered these items are

[Zenako]

Since GS ingredients do not bind to character or even account, the number of characters who personally pulled all the ingredients they need for their GS is almost certainly extremely small. So focusing on having had to run Shroud a lot to get all you need and thus ending up higher level is not really relevant to the point I think you are trying to make. That is that GS weapons dwarf the power and effectiveness of pretty much any other ML12 weapon in the game. Yes they do. But is that a bad thing?

That is not as clear. GS in the hands of TR can be very very significant in mid level quests, that is pretty indisputable. But how often do you actually run into GS using TR, mingling with first time new players? When comparing a first time new player to a GS/TR player, the gear is only a portion of the effectiveness difference. Game and quest knowledge can trump even the gear differences, not to mention the deep pockets to afford all the ancillary items (pots, scrolls, stat gear, etc) that boost effectiveness.

However most of the GS/TR's that I know tend to stick to their own kind and play (when grouping at all) with other players who have much the same gear and skills and knowledge. Yes those groups blow thru those quests with ease, but why shouldn't they. They are uber geared and equipped and played long and often to get that way. It is also likely that they dropped some coin in the store for the TR tokens as well so they are profit making aspect of the game.

[hockeyrama]

first off, i went into vale at 12 with more then one character. ran shroud at 14 with one and a few at 15. I was effective and no more a hinderance on the group then most other toons in a pug group. My level 14 rogue died the first time not because i was level 14 but because i had no idea about shroud. her second time in there she did not die and did exceptionally well. My fighter tanked harry at level 15 in part 4 in an at level shroud with the max level was i think only 16 although we had posted for up to 17 (there might have been one 17). I still have not done a tr yet but I could see a decked out tr doing well in there early if they do some research first and make sure they know which way they going.

Truth is shroud is becoming overrated on difficulty as most are trying to run it in an uber speed run with very little coordination. If you get a good group who works together it goes as smooth as possible. Like yesterday, we did a beat down of the 4 bosses in seconds and about 5 people where saying you have to prep and the leader said "no" "trust me, just kill em, we are level 20 and way above there level". We smoked them fast and when they all died real quick before they could possibly get back in time the guys yelling for the prepping said "wow, that was amazing".

THe truth is that the only thing that really is hard about shroud is that you really benefit from having a high level cleric who can toss mass heals on a party. With that and good dps you can smoke it out preety quick and having one or two lower level toons along doing a few less dps points should be fine. Heck, even an at level shroud is not the worst thing in the world you just have to work together.

So why would we want to lower the ml of the gear. At that level it is about right. Yes, it is overpowered and so is the new stuff that just came out like the mabar stuff, the vampirc lordsmarch wraps, and they all take alot less farming.

[Tumarek]

/signed

Level 11 / 12 is just a little too early. 15/16 (or at least 13/14) would be better imho. There is lots of great gear floating around in those levels (12-16) that will never be used because you get totally op equipment at 12.

Its not like a TR can blow throw those levels the way it is... no need to shove all that greensteel up his behind.

But i guess it comes down to if you want to get your char up to 20 asap or actually enjoy the leveling process. Those who are in a hurry will want any buff they can get to make it less "painful" while those who like the leveling will complain that low level content is trivialized by ship buffs, greensteel and such.

So i don't think this thread is going anywhere... well next to having some drama, whats always welcome

[Joab_Watts]

no sir, i dont like it.

+1 for the Mr. Horse reference.

[Jay203]

i love how people try to justify the power of greensteel items


for a set of items that has higher durability, higher base stats, much higher customization, and way better effect than 90+% of the ingame items, they sure made the game more fun and balanced