Ki suggestion

[dunklezhan]

EDIT: Its times like these I *really* wish you could edit the thread title. 'Ki Suggestion?' That may be how it started out, but it evolved by the time I'd finished. /sigh. One tiny part of the below is a 'ki' suggestion. Mostly its a 'dedicated monk itemisation' suggestion. Bah. [/EDIT]


Bit random, popped into my head and not fully fleshed out, thought I'd post it see what the general feeling was.

Monks are pretty durn powerful. You could make a convincing case that they don't need more help, I mean they've got two PrEs which are generally agreed to be good ones, even without that they've got the whole dark/light thing. They're agreed to be survivable, flexible, as well as pretty cool if you can put up with the kung fu noises (I can. I love 'em. I just wish there was a proper hiiiiiiiYAH! in there). Monk splashes are particularly awesome - perhaps too awesome and due the nerf bat as a result - when used correctly.

I understand all that, and pretty much agree. Because of that, the rest of this post should be read with the understanding that I'm not suggesting there is anything here that needs urgently addressing. Bug fixes, more PrEs for other classes etc all would be ahead in the queue, ok? I know that.

So, that said, I think they are missing a few things, particularly when it comes to weaponry.

Nothing about monk weaponry is particularly 'optimal': Kamas and shuriken are generally agreed to be pointless except situationally or with very specific suffixes (and most of that comes down basically to vorpalling). Quarterstaffs... well, you can certainly build for them, but they're certainly not common, and there's a reason for that. There's just better choices out there. Sword monks are ok but, like Qstaves, are just 'ok'. For a pure monk, Handwraps are the best choice in most situations, and obviously there's no GS handwraps which presumably causes problems in the end game (my monk's up to 17, nearly 18... I'm getting there!).

From my experience, which is with Light Monks so Dark Monks may have to chip in here, the strength of monks isn't necessarily with the pure damage output however. They're certainly not built around their crit profile like most other melees.

No, its all about the base damage and the combat effects they have, whether it be putting things in a stun lock, lowering saves (hey, I know a little about Dark Monks!), short-buffing the party, or instakill/CC abilities. I think that's right. I don't think they necessarily need to be top of the DPS tree to be really valuable members of the party, their other abilities, imho, more than make up for the lack of DPS at high levels.

Thing is, I'm not aware of any itemisation or weapon suf/prefixes that directly boost this stuff with the exception of +Stunning which, while monks are admittedly well suited to it (hence me classing it as a monk ability) is really just another combat move like trip or sunder. There's also nothing that directly boosts finishing moves in any way that I know of.

With the exception of named items like the Stonedust wraps and Jidz-tet'ka bracers, I think these are two issues that would benefit from a little attention, assuming I haven't missed anything (does combustion, fire lore or evocation for example affect fire strikes or the dragons breath finisher? I don't think so but I could be wrong).

So - assuming I haven't missed anything, and do please educate me if I have, I wonder whether its time we did see some weapon or itemisation that does affect this stuff?

Some examples (i'm going to use 'item' rather than 'weapon' but take this to include anything a monk can equip and remain centered):

• Rather than having an item with banishing on we might find an item that adds +x to the DC of banishing effects, with x being variable depending on the power level of the item, making Dismissing Strike harder for the target to resist. Alternatively items which could increase the base HD affected. This may of course be an itemisation useful to other classes, and that's not a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.
• Items with a stance related property (air, earth etc) which affect either the base strikes associated with that stance (possibly only working when actually IN that stance, like the stonedust wraps).
• Items with a stance finisher related property, inreasing either the effectiveness or duration of finishers related to that stance. I'd suggest these didn't work on finishers involving light/dark strikes.
• Items with a light/dark property - these would improve the light/dark related strikes somehow - perhaps only improving the basic strikes like healing curse.
• Items with a light/dark finisher related property.
• Something that increases the DC of Quivering Palm perhaps? (+vibration as a suffix maybe?)
• Items of ki reduction - this is a risky one for game balance though.
• Item of body wholeness is probably not needed as this ability basically is a free more or less full heal every few minutes if you have the ki and the time.

These are examples of the sort of things I'm thinking of. I've deliberately not gone into detail about the numbers of what each would do, I'm interested in what people think of this sort of thing as a general idea. If others like the general idea and want to suggest specifics though, go for it. Maybe a dev will read it and note it for a later addition next time they're doing an itemisation pass.

[bobbert22193]

I agree with this up to a point. With that said it is also not high on my wish list, just would be nice to have some of things. I say that because monks are really oerpowerd at lower lvls although it tapers off a bit a higher lvls even though we still do have our role as DPS and some CC

Also you might want to check into the Fernian Wraps, they give boosts when in sun stance like a 50% insight bonus to fire finishing moves such as breath of the fire dragon and first level spells.

I picked them up out of the Threnal chain as an end reward and they worked pretty good. So I am wondering if the DEV's might already be considering this as a back burner project where I think it should be. Or maybe there is more HW's out there that have similar properties and I just don't know about them yet...

[dunklezhan]

I agree with this up to a point. With that said it is also not high on my wish list, just would be nice to have some of things. I say that because monks are really oerpowerd at lower lvls although it tapers off a bit a higher lvls even though we still do have our role as DPS and some CC

Agreed, yes. From what I've read (not played it yet), at end game monk DPS may as well not count regardless of light/dark/PrE so the CC/buffs are presumably about all there is in terms of party benefit for many players.

Also you might want to check into the Fernian Wraps, they give boosts when in sun stance like a 50% insight bonus to fire finishing moves such as breath of the fire dragon and first level spells.

I picked them up out of the Threnal chain as an end reward and they worked pretty good.

I didn't know about the Fernian Wraps, so I've learned something which makes the thread worth it as far as I'm concerned! I've only run threnal a couple of times just to get the mantle for a couple of my toons. Coyle makes me a sad panda and is very hard to get groups for on top of that, so I try to run Threnal as infrequently as possible. As a consequence I've never seen the wraps offered.

So I am wondering if the DEV's might already be considering this as a back burner project where I think it should be. Or maybe there is more HW's out there that have similar properties and I just don't know about them yet...

Lets hope so, on both counts.

[t0r012]

Agreed, yes. From what I've read (not played it yet), at end game monk DPS may as well not count regardless of light/dark/PrE so the CC/buffs are presumably about all there is in terms of party benefit for many players.



I didn't know about the Fernian Wraps, so I've learned something which makes the thread worth it as far as I'm concerned! I've only run threnal a couple of times just to get the mantle for a couple of my toons. Coyle makes me a sad panda and is very hard to get groups for on top of that, so I try to run Threnal as infrequently as possible. As a consequence I've never seen the wraps offered.



Lets hope so, on both counts.

aye I do think there are more special monk type thingies coming. Like the thernal (fire finisher+)/stonedust(earthstance prison)/devotion(healing finisher +) wraps and the garments of equilibrium/ jiz bracers.
there has been more and more "special" monk stuff rolling in pretty regular like and I don't see that stopping any time soon. I think besides the fact that some one on the dev team seems to really like monks (as they rightfully should) there is another motive in that monks are a pay class, the only one you have to purchase if you want to play. So there turbine has a vested interest in giving monks some goodies.
That is why I think we got 2 prestiges last year when others are still languishing with out any.

besides monks are Frackin cool how could you not love them short of having a serious case of Carpel Tunnel Syndrome, which you will get if you play your monk to often.

-----

edit: add my wish for cool monk schtuff
my biggest wish is for a pair of boots or other item that when fighting unarmed will give a + to stun besides handwraps.
Heck boots of the elegant crane with a nice +5 dex (they are graceful) , 20% strider (they fly , Duh) and +8 stun DC that doesn't stack with wraps(we kick don't we). Sweet, sweet lovin' right there. yeah I know with the way stunning is coded you probably couldn't exclude giving the DC bonus to non unarmed, but hey i can dream can't I?

[dkyle]

Agreed, yes. From what I've read (not played it yet), at end game monk DPS may as well not count regardless of light/dark/PrE so the CC/buffs are presumably about all there is in terms of party benefit for many players.

That's an exaggeration. Monks certainly don't have top DPS, but they do have relevant DPS, if you build for it. I've successfully hate tanked epic Chrono several times with just 10% threat amp (normal claw set) on my Light Monk, and have had to turn PA off in VoD to avoid drawing Sulu off the tank.

It does take a substantial amount of gear to get good Monk DPS, though. You need good wraps (Mabar wraps are pretty good), and ToD rings with burst effects on them.

[dunklezhan]

aye I do think there are more special monk type thingies coming. Like the thernal (fire finisher+)/stonedust(earthstance prison)/devotion(healing finisher +) wraps and the garments of equilibrium/ jiz bracers.

I think what I'd like to see is more random loot which could affect monk moves rather than more named loot. Not that I'm against more luvverly pha4t l3wt of course, but named loot requires ongoing dev time and balancing. New suffixes/prefixes can be developed once, added to loot tables and then be left to run. Which would be cool.

[waterboytkd]

yeah I know with the way stunning is coded you probably couldn't exclude giving the DC bonus to non unarmed, but hey i can dream can't I?

Actually, it's probably pretty easy. One of the points that keeps getting brought up whenever GS wraps are discussed is that wraps act like accessories/clothing in game, not weapons. By that, it's noted that if you put on, say, holy burst handwraps, if you examine your monk, he has holy burst as one of his effects listed (like any Resist Energy effects, Boat Buffs, etc.). This does not happen with any other weapon. It is believed by some that the way handwraps work is that they aren't a weapon your character attacks with (like a khopesh), but instead they just augment your character, giving your character certain attributes that affect his unarmed strike.

Now, I'm making an assumption, but I think that's the same way ToD rings work, as well. Therefor, it wouldn't be at all inconceivable for Boots to be able to work like that (give some kind of augmentation to attacks that would only work for unarmed). Personally, I think magic monk boots is a sweet idea; monks are lacking for good boot choices anyways (although, that's probably true for most classes). I mean, what is there? Madstone boots? The end? Plus, the flavor is sweet.

Kinetic Sandals
ML 12-14
Jump +7
Force -- Your unarmed attacks deal an additional 1d6 force damage.
Stunning +6 -- Your unarmed attacks have a 3% chance to...you know the rest

Epic Kinetic Sandals
ML 20
Jump +15
Force Burst -- 1d6 on a hit, 1d10 extra on a crit
Stunning +10
Orange Augment slot (Red or Yellow)

PS These would make gearing monks more arduous, but would make them super-sick powerful when fully geared. I mean, stunning +10 without using up Handwraps? You'd never unequip handwraps of endless light