Deathly Shadows: The real Ninja-Spy

[Lil'man]

Introduction:

I have been a long time member of DDO and until now have played consistently. Real life has gotten into the way and so now I have to stop playing. Before I had to stop I was working on TRing my monk into a monk/rogue ninja. I spent a couple of weeks checking out other classes to make a “real” ninja because the ninja-spy enhancement line just didn’t make my monk feel like a ninja.

Philosophy:

This build is supposed to mimic any image I had of a ninja in all aspects including sneaking, making traps, assassination, lots of damage, and decent survivability through blur scroll and shadow fade, never being surprised through spot, having tricks up his sleeve (UMD), and all sorts of cool stuff.. This has an enormous potential for DPS with the combination of haste boosts/monk unarmed attack speed/sneak attack damage. This build is also relatively advanced because it requires at least a 32-pt build but 34 would be recommended. It’s just that since we only have 7 monk levels, the base damage on your fists wouldn’t be as high as a regular pure monk so past life monk and garments of equilibrium are highly recommended to help close that gap.

What this build can do:

This build is my basic outline of a ninja, great situational (sneak attack) DPS, make traps (more towards levels 18-20 you get the real DC), decent survivability under fire with shadow fade and a blur scroll, crazy situational attack speed with unarmed monk + rogue haste IV + haste pot, sneaking abilities, the ability to assassinate targets. I didn’t push the monk up and make it a 9 monk 11 rogue just for Touch of Death because the way I view it, ToD is for people who lack enormous DPS and if played right, this character can rack that up in a second. Plus I’d be loosing out on 2d6 sneak attack.

Details:

Game play: This build has a combination of abilities that basically make him into what I believe a ninja is. He has 10d6 sneak attack which is the same as a level 20 rogue without cap. Play like a rogue, walk into a mob after your psychotic barbarian smashes into their front line and just drain the enemies with your crazy damage and attack speed. For damage, the ninja has intense attack speed (unarmed monk is the fastest in the game) combined with 10d6 sneak attack. Have agro besides all of the trouble you went through on lowering the melee threat? Just try a trip/stunning blow combo and with your decent strength mod, you should be able to lay him on his @$$.

Insta-kill: Like a ninja, this build has the ability to sneak into rooms and assassinate certain targets and sneak out when needed. As cool as quivering palm is, assassinate is a better choice and besides it’s not like I’d bump up the 7 levels of monk all the way to 15 just to stiff-arm some sorry excuse for a mage in the face. Its total DC for its assassinate is 10 base + 13 rogue level + 7 intelligence mod (14 base +6 item + 2 ship or yugo pot +2 tome = 30DC). This is just as good as a 20 monk with 30 wisdom and those extra stats can definitely go someplace better.

DPS: The damage potential for this build is enormous. Just picture for a moment unarmed monk, the fastest attack in the whole game, added with haste and rogue haste IV… got you drooling yet?... now add this crazy image in your mind to 10d6 sneak attack, THAT’S CRAZY STUFF THERE!!!! Now I know what you’re thinking… oh its sneak attack and that doesn’t even happen all of the time. Sure it doesn’t, but it sure affects monsters most of the time if you play your role correctly. Now add crippling strike to this crazy attack speed and that translates into auto-crit mobs. Sure the lower base damage of this non-pure monk isn’t too slightly which is why as I said above, past life is highly recommended. But besides that point it will have a solid strength level so we shouldn't miss much.

Skills: Basically in a nutshell we can sneak, use scrolls, got decent hops, and have bluff. Bluff is a useful tool against enemies with a ridiculous bank of HP that have the ninja locked in their sights. Etc… bosses and ice giants who can’t be insta-killed. This build can disable traps and unlock doors. This also includes for Making the traps, level 4 rogues get the trap making feat automatically and ninjas love to leave certain… presents… for their special little friends all around the place. Cause seriously who doesn’t love leaving a trap in the middle of the room and setting a timer for a noisemaker on top of it so all of the stupid grunts walk over and go OHH PRETTY MUSIC and the next thing they know their legs are on the opposite side of the room that their arms are. I also have spot because ninjas are never supposed to be surprised, find hidden doors, see invisible people, sense traps coming, just the usual things.

Ki: Ki in this build isn’t going to be too relied upon it’s just for that shadow fade on demand and whatever you find fitting for your situation.

Here's the build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

New ninja 
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(7 Monk \ 13 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 288
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 16
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    22
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    17
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    23
Bluff                 3                    25
Concentration         3                    25
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        6                    24
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  6                    32
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  7                    12
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         6                    32
Open Lock             6                    25
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     2
Search                6                    25
Spot                  3                    22
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble                6                     9
Use Magic Device      3                    21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II


Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: Improved Jump II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III

^ There's the new build that can disable traps and pick locks

[Jahmin]

Your Reflex should be good enough to swap iEvasion for Opportunist.

Otherwise, looks good!

[dkyle]

I know it's a flavor build, but are you sure you want to Max Tumble and Bluff instead of Search and Open Lock? They're are just so... useless, compared to trap/lock skills.

Also, how are you getting 10d6 SA? 13 levels of Rogue gives 7d6, Ninja Spy I gives 1d6. Looks like you included the Ninja Spy II dice, even though you can't take that.

[Wraithkin]

As a rogue, I'd suggest dropping Crippling strike, it's mostly useless at high levels, keep Imp Evasion, it's always worth it, and take Opportunist. It's an amazing feat. Double Strike chance and 10% fort, you can crit undead, constructs and elementals.

[Saaluta]

Just a question on why you didn't start as level 1 rogue for the extra skill points, then level 2 monk?? This would have given you enough skill points to begin with, as you were saying in the skills section above that you didn't have enough skill points and had to do some juggling

Saal

Not saying it doesn't look good as a playable character, just asking

[Lil'man]

I know it's a flavor build, but are you sure you want to Max Tumble and Bluff instead of Search and Open Lock? They're are just so... useless, compared to trap/lock skills.

Also, how are you getting 10d6 SA? 13 levels of Rogue gives 7d6, Ninja Spy I gives 1d6. Looks like you included the Ninja Spy II dice, even though you can't take that.

Tumble can be useful for jumping out of mobs because this build isn't supposed to be in them anyways, bluff is for that one boss that seems to hate you with a passion and you can't get your sneak attack going...

Have you forgot rogue assasin prestiege line? i have 2 of those so those add 2d6

[Lil'man]

Just a question on why you didn't start as level 1 rogue for the extra skill points, then level 2 monk??

Saal

Not saying it doesn't look good as a playable character, just asking

Wanted to start off by constantly being a "ninja" (so taste i guess) i just thought it would be wierd saying i was a ninja with dual wield rapiers and people just staring at me. And besides there really aren't any other place i'd put the extra skill points into, if i started search or something i would run out of skill points later to keep that up to par so it didn't really fit to me.

[dkyle]

Tumble can be useful for jumping out of mobs because this build isn't supposed to be in them anyways, bluff is for that one boss that seems to hate you with a passion and you can't get your sneak attack going...

Tumble is nearly worthless for that purpose. You want Jump.

If you draw aggro on a boss, Bluff isn't going to help you much. Except by tanking your DPS during the long animation it uses. You want threat reduction.

Even Diplomacy would be better, since it doesn't waste DPS.

Have you forgot rogue assasin prestiege line? i have 2 of those so those add 2d6

Yeah, I did.

[Lil'man]

Tumble is nearly worthless for that purpose. You want Jump.

If you draw aggro on a boss, Bluff isn't going to help you much. Except by tanking your DPS during the long animation it uses. You want threat reduction.

Even Diplomacy would be better, since it doesn't waste DPS.



Yeah, I did.

Tumble kinda makes up for the lack of slow fall too which i came to be used to and became kinda part of the monk feeling and no i don't want a featherfall item for that because i hate falling slowly.

Bluff takes about 3 seconds and in my perspective that's definately worth 6 seconds of 10d6 sneak attack added on to monk's rediculous attack speed.

Diplomacy is like a middle finger to the caster's face, in my past experience as a rogue no matter how fast i'd finish off the enemies i just dumped the casters would always be ****ed.

[Snormal]

I am running a very similar build for my third life. Heading towards 13/7 rogue/monk, switching between Acrobat/staff and assassin/fists every few days as I feel like it. Staying light monk until monk 6 (heal amp + fists of light >>>>>> touch of despair with low wisdom IMO).

Not sure if you're looking for suggestions but a few I would make are:

Consider dropping crippling strike. Most stuff dies SO fast when you get a string of sneak attacks on it that the str damage doesn't really seem worth it. I'd take opportunist for my first bonus feat (3% doublestrike is nice, 1 extra sneak attack in every 20 hits on 50% fort is nice too), and I'm still undecided about the second.

I'd also drop stunning blow for more toughness. I don't think your strength will be high enough to reliably land the stun, and the hp on a rogue/monk is low.

Not sure what the 12 wisdom really adds but I'd take str over it. 2 ac? Useless. 2 will save? Basically useless when you have fom/protection from evil. Qualifying for water stance enhancements? Just kidding.

Anyway, it's a very fun build to play, and the sheer kickassery when you go into turbo mode (haste/haste boost/I throw in human versatility damage here too) is just awesome. Good luck with it!

[krogyy]

being a dark monk the benefit of taking the 7th monk level is debatable imho. wholeness of body is a bit reduntant when you can use wands/scrolls and the extra heling amp is much more usefull for a light monk.

one alternative would be ranger, for sprint boost and early access to wands.

another is fighter for one extra feat and +1 to stunning blow.

[Jrstevenson07]

Love the thought of a rogue/monk splash the way you've set it up. I was really psyched and started thinking of the possabilities for when my monk is able to TR. I've already started playing with my character builder

Are you sure you like the current level distribution? I see why you have it set up this way. Rogue 13/monk 7 grants Haste IV, 7D6 sneak, and two rogue feats. But you are giving up Touch of death.

If you went Monk 12/rogue 7/ x1 you would increase your fist damage to 2D6, have access to a new tier of stances (which would almost make up the speed for loseing HasteIV as well as add to doublestrike chance), improved evasion, and you would have access to touch of death.

the X1 could turn into monk13 if you want the spell resistance feat, or maybe fighter1 if you want a combat feat.

What i have just layed out above has gotten me very excited about my next TR. Thanks for giving me the idea.

[Lil'man]

Personally in my opinion Jrstevenson07 having 12 monk for the greater hit dice isn't as good as 13 rogue. This build allows the same sneak attack damage as a level 20 rogue without cap. The skills can be shifted around to your taste so that you could disable traps at a high level if you trade tumble for search or whatever else you feel like. Most of the damage of rogues and this build is from sneak attack, the addition of past life monk and garmets of equilibrium will help level out the base damage for the monk. I beleive though it would be a big mistake for losing all of those rogue levels and at that point i think cap monk would be better.

That is a very interesting idea snormal for dropping crippling strike for opportunist, i beleive that would certainly help against those fort mobs and was considering getting that in addition for precision for the fort mobs also since most of our damage is from SA. Stunning blow should have a decent DC by level 20 (10 base + 10 stun wraps + str mod (22 end +2 tome + 2 rage pot + 6 item = 32 conservatively str) equals 31 fort DC with hardly any buffs, mostly for situational purposes like stopping a caster in it's tracks. I guess i see your point in how wisdom is worthless, im going to mess around with the stats and see what i can come up with.

Ok i dropped wisdom to 8 and bumped con from 14 to 16 so the max hp he can sustainably get without too much grinding would be around...

310 base
20 rage
40 yugo con pot
20 airship buff
30 false life
20 minos helm toughness
60 +6 con item
20 +2 con tome
_________________
520 sustanable hp

[Jrstevenson07]

Personally in my opinion Jrstevenson07 having 12 monk for the greater hit dice isn't as good as 13 rogue. This build allows the same sneak attack damage as a level 20 rogue without cap. The skills can be shifted around to your taste so that you could disable traps at a high level if you trade tumble for search or whatever else you feel like. Most of the damage of rogues and this build is from sneak attack, the addition of past life monk and garmets of equilibrium will help level out the base damage for the monk.

To each their own. I've been playing with the character builder and found out i had left a bit out though.
According to DDO wiki, a 13 rogue will get 7D6 sneak attack. The ninja spy 1 will grant 1D6 so 8D6 total. (not sure what you are adding that i've forgotten or missed to get the 20 rogue sneak which is 10D6)

What i totaly missed was two things.
1. Ninja Spy 2 grants an additional 2D6, brinking ninja spy bonus to 3D6. Added to the 7 rogue levels, this will equal 7D6 of sneak attack (1D6 less than going 13rogue/7monk).
2. Forgot to account for the past life feat. 7monk is 1d8 per fist. With past life feat it gets bumped to 1d10. 12(or13)monk is 2D6 with past life feat pushing it to 2D8.

Whichever way you decide to go, it looks to be a lot of fun. Thanks again for putting it out there and giving me a reason to cap my monk and TR him into the idea i just listed.

[Draccus]

As a flavor build, I can see its value but not for much more than that.

The things you call out as advantages would all be stronger if you simply stayed pure rogue. The DPS is not great, in my opinion, as a pure rogue assassin would have 7d6 higher sneak attacks. He would also add epic level trap skills, more skill points, and more rogue feats. A pure rogue would also be sure to take Sneak Attack Accuracy and Training to tier IV for even more damage.

Additionally, the build lacks one of the rogue's biggest weapons: Radiance II weapons. There are no radiance handwraps and the lack of Improved Crit means that even switching to radiance weapons just to blind an opponent will be less effective. The lack of radiance makes the build's DPS dramatically lower AND more situational than a pure rogue.

I don't think the build, as described, gains enough from the monk levels to justify the massive drop in Sneak Attack damage, lower skills, and lack of ability to quickly blind an opponent. The only thing that looks moderately useful is the ability to stun but I don't know enough about how the DC's work to know if this build can get to the point where the stuns land reliably. And, of course, the stuns are useless in the game's biggest fights...where 7d6+ sneak attack damage is incredibly helpful.

[Calebro]

Was it a mistake that you have a search skill of 2, or is this your first rogue?

The main reason to add 7 levels of monk is for the defensive capabilities that it offers, and you've almost completely ignored this aspect. Not only have you ignored this aspect, but you'll be a gimp trapmonkey as well.

Let me see if I can find my build to link.
brb

edit:
Found it. Here.
This is tried and tested.
With the change to skill AP as a 1:1 trade now, take the extra 4 pts that you'll have and put them into Improved Search for epic trap capability.

[Lil'man]

10d6 sneak attack equals 7d6 rogue levels + 1d6 ninja spy I + 1d6 Rogue Assasin I + 1d6 Rogue Assasin II.

Dual wield shortswords ARE possible because they become monk weapons through ninja spy I.

Sure we might not hit as hard per hit than an assasin III rogue with cap but we have more base damage against those special cases for like... warforged or undead. 1d8 base unarmed monk. Unarmed monk is the fastest attack in the game period so that closes any gaps we have. 1d8 equals greensteel rapiers or shortswords. 1d10 with past life which equals greensteel long swords. 2d6 with garnmets of equilibrium and past life (which do stack) which is more than both of those.

Basically in a wrap up- more base damage less sneak attack and higher attack speed.

Yes this can do traps if you want it to by trading some skill for search, like tumble which was brought up above, but tumble was my prefrence for people with flavor but if you want an "all business ninja" then by all means you can switch it out. Its just that if you look at the build disable device comes at later levels because of the monk at early levels so it would make sence for you to use tumble until around 17-20 and then LR to switch them out.

[Calebro]

Yes this can do traps if you want it to by trading some skill for search, like tumble which was brought up above, but tumble was my prefrence for people with flavor but if you want an "all business ninja" then by all means you can switch it out. Its just that if you look at the build disable device comes at later levels because of the monk at early levels so it would make sence for you to use tumble until around 17-20 and then LR to switch them out.

Seriously, take a look at the link I tossed in there.
Epic trap capability, and he has all 7 monk levels at lvl 10. Take a look at how I broke down the skills level by level and you'll see that it's entirely possible to keep the trap skills good enough at all levels of play.

[Draccus]

Basically in a wrap up- more base damage less sneak attack and higher attack speed.

A drow rogue with a greensteel rapier does 1d8+7 base damage. Halfling rogue does even more sneak attack damage due to Halfling enhancements. Both will have a much higher crit range than an unarmed monk. The only advange the monk has is a slightly higher attack speed but gives up a huge amount of damage otherwise to get that.

I don't have any problems with flavor builds. I know people play them happily for years. But I wouldn't try to push a multiclass flavor build as having "great DPS to drool over" when it's dramatically out-damaged by a pure build and gains little from the multiclassing.

[Lil'man]

I've looked at it and think its pretty cool, me and him have almost the same idea in here except he's trying to keep up his AC which is hurting his hitpoints and his damage capability which will hurt in epics.

So since everybody wants my guy to have trap disabling capabilities, i'll go switch my build up a little bit here... gonna have revisions up by tomorrow at latest.

EDIT: Renewed one is above.