Ranged Weapon Speed

[infinidibulum]

Does anyone else think that ranged weapons are just a little too ineffectual?
Even with rapid-shot, a bow seems dissapointing, to me.

I suggest increasing the rate of fire by about 20% across the board on all ranged weapons.

[Lord_WC]

I don't think it would solve the problem. Ranged damage is only good for 20 secs in every 2 minutes. Attack speed will not help too much with it, and giving an all out boost to ranged still will not make an alternative to melee all by itself.

I would be more happy to see some insane ranged dps boost feats, or an overhaul of the whole ranged stuff to make it potentially deal just as much damage as melee.

Then fix aggro issues.

Then nerf rangers so they have to choose between ranged or twf.

Then make feats which give you more dps if standing still (sorry, still hate kiting rangers)

I think if ranged would be an ALTERNATIVE, which can offer the same rewards as melee dpswise, but you have to take an either or approach would serve the game better.

[andbr22]

Without manyshoot speed is something like that:
~1 ranged arrow
~2 THF
~3,5 TWF

Speed boost don't mean much in ranged combat (they provide about 50% of usfullness (not sure for haste, and hastle boost (still rangers lack of it))).
10% form AA set provide 1 or 3 extra attacks per 100 seconds (when you have capstoone, and rapid shoot).

[donfilibuster]

Using a ranged weapon is supposed to be as fast as melee weapons in d&d, since you use attack actions.
However, in ddo you have to balance for the fact you can kill things at a safe distance.

The problem caused is that a ranged weapon suffer at close distance but this isn't entirely wrong.
After all, rangers are skilled in two weapon fighting. On any archer you can always switch back to melee.
Even real life archers drop their bows for shortswords after the volley.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Does anyone else think that ranged weapons are just a little too ineffectual?
Even with rapid-shot, a bow seems dissapointing, to me.

I suggest increasing the rate of fire by about 20% across the board on all ranged weapons.

Yes.

Welcome to DDO.

Yes, it has ben a problem for a long time that the Devs seem reluctant to fix. Apparently in beta ranged attacks were faster and overpowering, so they nerfed them. And never looked back.

those people who can't look past the inferior DPS of ranged weps consider them almost useless in DDO.

But even with the less damage, they can be useful. The ability to damage something at a distance can be very powerful.

But I have long asked for an increase to ranged attack speed......for everyone.

[KreepyKritter]

Yes.

But even with the less damage, they can be useful. The ability to damage something at a distance can be very powerful.

This, yes... My question then becomes, why is it acceptable for DPS built casters to do the same thing? They have a reduced range, yes, but they have a ridiculously increased DPS output. Cometfall, firewall, flamestrike, finger of death, et cetera, ad nauseum...

What makes a DPS archer less entitled to this 'Phenomenal Cosmic Power (tm)' to do decent damage at range?

I'm sure there's a (v&m) reason for this back in the halls of the Devs somewhere... Maybe it's another 'Lag' excuse.

[Tumarek]

Up attack speed but let rangers not be able to shoot while running... solved

[andbr22]

I would also add that they made ranged fighting less usefull (not so long time ago - around TWF "nerf") by increasing enemies awarness range, so enemies grab agro for ranged ranger on every distance.
Unfortunetly out of 20 seconds every 2 minutes ranged is pitfull 95% of time (it can be usfull against: many lined up monsters, and monsters with tons of HP and highly resistant to spells and criticals(Raver's Fate -> AA and Dark monks have the highest kill count, Air and Fire elementals in New Invasion; but still if you have non evasive Fighter AA then they will eat you)).

[Talon_Moonshadow]

This, yes... My question then becomes, why is it acceptable for DPS built casters to do the same thing? They have a reduced range, yes, but they have a ridiculously increased DPS output. Cometfall, firewall, flamestrike, finger of death, et cetera, ad nauseum...

What makes a DPS archer less entitled to this 'Phenomenal Cosmic Power (tm)' to do decent damage at range?

I'm sure there's a (v&m) reason for this back in the halls of the Devs somewhere... Maybe it's another 'Lag' excuse.

Well...

It's different. Not sure what else to say.

What I want to see most is ranged attack speed increased for everyone, to a point where Barbarians and Pallies wil pull out ranged weps when it makes sense to do so. Like to attack perched archers, to not die in the DQs six swords....to not get tossed around by old air ellies....etc.

As it is now, ranged DPS is so slow for those guys that they will do anything else except use a ranged weapon if they have a choice.

And currently a super duper maxed out ranged char..........is barely above an average melee guy....an way behind a super duper axed out melee guy. (with the exception of Manyshot....and maybe some lucky 20 rolls, or the perfect line em up Improved Precise Shot.)

And both the layman and the specced archer would benefit from a speed increase.

And more people in the party able to use an efective ranged attack will help dedicated archers in other ways too.

I do hope that at least they will finish DeepWoods Sniper PRE and give them a ranged insta kill shot.

[infinidibulum]

Using a ranged weapon is supposed to be as fast as melee weapons in d&d, since you use attack actions.
However, in ddo you have to balance for the fact you can kill things at a safe distance.

The problem caused is that a ranged weapon suffer at close distance but this isn't entirely wrong.
After all, rangers are skilled in two weapon fighting. On any archer you can always switch back to melee.
Even real life archers drop their bows for shortswords after the volley.

From my point of view, in both games one can and should be able to take advantage of certain enemies from a distance. After all, this is why we invented ranged weapons in the real world.

I don't see why it would be such a bad thing if a ranger with rapid shot and a nicely enchanted bow, firing nicely enchanted arrows, could take down a single charging attacker of moderate strength without having to finish the job in melee.

I wouldn't want ranged weapons to dominate the game and overshadow caster DPS but as things are currently ranged weapons seem to be too ineffectual. The distance that a character can target an enemy from doesn't provide the opportunity to land many shots before the enemy closes the distance. In those cases when it is sensible to use a bow, it just takes forever to wear down a target. I often find my mind starts to wander while my character trades arrows with an enemy archer.

Speaking of which, I'm sure no one will disagree with me that the enemy archers are always the lowest priority targets. I would expect the RoF increase to extend to them also, making them slightly more threatening.

[Nuralanya]

The distance that a character can target an enemy from doesn't provide the opportunity to land many shots before the enemy closes the distance.

Turn up the Object Draw Distance - especially in more open areas, you can shoot things from so far away that they can't even see you to retaliate, and they die looking around in confusion...



If you can tab to it (or whatever key you use for targetting), you can shoot it.

[donfilibuster]

From my point of view, in both games one can and should be able to take advantage of certain enemies from a distance. After all, this is why we invented ranged weapons in the real world.

I don't see why it would be such a bad thing if a ranger with rapid shot and a nicely enchanted bow, firing nicely enchanted arrows, could take down a single charging attacker of moderate strength without having to finish the job in melee.

I wouldn't want ranged weapons to dominate the game and overshadow caster DPS but as things are currently ranged weapons seem to be too ineffectual. The distance that a character can target an enemy from doesn't provide the opportunity to land many shots before the enemy closes the distance. In those cases when it is sensible to use a bow, it just takes forever to wear down a target. I often find my mind starts to wander while my character trades arrows with an enemy archer.

Speaking of which, I'm sure no one will disagree with me that the enemy archers are always the lowest priority targets. I would expect the RoF increase to extend to them also, making them slightly more threatening.

First yeah, turn up object draw distance, there's many quests and whole wild areas that become a sniper's playground.
Like gianthold for example, you can make a party of six rangers and nothing in there will stand a chance.

The problem is that well built and well played, the archer does indeed have an advantage.
The balance line is thin so changes to this may very well tip the scales and make the ranged overshadow melee dps.
As it is now you can kite monsters as if you were playing quake or such a shooting game and not be hurt at all.

Granted it is a slow rate of fire but with slay living arrows, etc. the AA has potential, depending on player's skill.
Not so much for other classes but the thing that makes slow rate slower is kiting itself.
The attack rate while moving is supposed to be slower, yet melees don't notice it as much unless you go ballistic.
To have a proper rate of fire one has to stand in place, but even then melees have faster rate with twf and all.

As for real life archers, i agree no one would expose to arrows no matter the shield.
Melees fear arrows only a little less than fear arcane magic and the gods, yet is something to take care of.
Proud types of warriors (knights, minotaurs,dwarves) will often see archers as dishonorable and being killed at range would be a disgrace.
Naturally, ranged weapons would be widely used by everyone else.
Maybe the problem in ddo to this respect is the lack of cover options, which is d&d natural defense vs. the archers.
Blocking is the main form of cover and does it very well, both with shield or using the terrain.

On ddo however, being high magic, you are supposed to be somewhat resistant to common arrows and spears.
Think of aragorn from LotR who had enough dex to evade and parry arrows.
But still, you may think of enemy archers as fodder but only individually, they are strong in the numbers.
Enemy archers *do* have unlimited range, try walking on sands in the open.

There's many quests where there can be enough archers in one place that can get you in trouble.
Firewall tends to stop this threat but without a caster it can be a bother to chase them all.
No matter how high your AC is, you will be getting grazing hits, and sometimes you won't have the right DR for those.