make The Chronoscope elite a high level raid

[IanYang]

Please make The Chronoscope elite a lvl 18 raid just like Devil Assult. And please make the elite diffuiculty and 20th completion has a chance to drop +3 tome.

[Rakian_Knight]

I agree that Chronoscope should be like Devil's Assault for difficulty (Normal: 6 / Hard: 12 / Elite: 18 / Epic: Well epic) however, have to disagree with the tome idea. What would stop people from farming normal then completing Elite for their 20th time for lower level characters unless you are going to put three separate completion counters on the raid?

Just my thoughts

[stoolcannon]

Agree, level 18 with level 18xp would be a fantastic idea. Also no on the +3 tomes unless it only counts 20 elite completions.

[grodon9999]

That would have been awesome.

[Bobthesponge]

/not signed

no. Chronoscope was designed as a low level raid and it should remain as such. If you want to raid at level 18 there are plenty of options. The gear isn't that spectacular that it overpowers lvl 18 gear. It is mid-low level gear and reflects the difficulty of the raid.

[doubledge]

/signed., but scale up the gear. i need some ml 18 charged gauntlets.... preferrably with + 4 strength

[transtemporal]

Um... why does this need to be a high level raid again?

[doubledge]

devil assault scales up. it's sharing a pack with chrono. therefore, there should be a higher level setting for chrono. make hard/elite drop ingreds, and have the items be upgraded by seals from the boss chests.

[Renvar]

/not signed

no. Chronoscope was designed as a low level raid and it should remain as such. If you want to raid at level 18 there are plenty of options. The gear isn't that spectacular that it overpowers lvl 18 gear. It is mid-low level gear and reflects the difficulty of the raid.

Plenty of options? Raids by level:

6 - 1
10 - 2 (If you count Tempest Spine)
12 - 2
14 - 1
15 - 1
17 - 1
18 - 2
20 - 1

I'm not sure that 4 raids really counts as plenty. And the problem with Chronoscope as a level 6,7,8 raid is that few toons stay at that level for more than a week or two. With a 3 day timer that amounts to 4-5 runs at a maximum. With the exception of Epic Chrono, there is very little re-runability to the raid at this level range.

If it wasn't for Epic Chrono and some solid Epic items, the entire raid would be fail.

Every other raid put in the game was put in at whatever level was end game at the time the raid was released. This is the first raid to come in below end game level and it came in massively below. Had it been implemented without a 3 day timer (ala Tempest Spine) I could see the purpose of having a low level raid. But as it stand, the raid makes more sense at somewhere around level 14-18 than 6.

Although I agree, that it shouldn't drop +3 tomes on 20th runs if the base level of the raid remains level 6. You'd need to raise the whole thing up to level 14 or above.

[JohnRove]

This was asked about just before the update launched and a Dev stated that the way Devil Assault works was one-time design which will not be implemented elsewhere.

[wemery73]

/signed., but scale up the gear.

[Bobthesponge]

Plenty of options? Raids by level:

6 - 1
10 - 2 (If you count Tempest Spine)
12 - 2
14 - 1
15 - 1
17 - 1
18 - 2
20 - 1

I'm not sure that 4 raids really counts as plenty. And the problem with Chronoscope as a level 6,7,8 raid is that few toons stay at that level for more than a week or two. With a 3 day timer that amounts to 4-5 runs at a maximum. With the exception of Epic Chrono, there is very little re-runability to the raid at this level range.

so by your math at level 18 you have 6 raids lvl 14 and higher - raids which drop viable end game loot. the lowest is Reaver which drops HoGF, Dreamspitter, Madstone boots, ect. Plus you are not including end game gear quests such as SoS and Mindsunder/Dreaming Dark which drop viable end game gear. so yes, that is plenty. and i am including ToD on this list because a properly geared lvl 18 toon should do just fine in ToD.

you can add in VON (lvl 10) because people will farm it for SoS and other items to upgrade when they run Epic.
you can add in Titan (lvl 12) because chattering ring and 7 fingered gloves are still viable at end game as stackable bonuses
you can add in ADQ (lvl 12) just for the torq - one of the most sought after items in the game - as well as the greenblade

so there are plenty of raids available to a lvl 18 toon.

If it wasn't for Epic Chrono and some solid Epic items, the entire raid would be fail.

false. you do not understand the purpose of the raid. all you are looking for is totally uberz minmax lootz. chrnoscope was designed for a couple of reasons:

1) to give lower level players a raiding experience and some cool mid level loot.
2) as a teaching raid so that newbs learn how to coordinate tactics in a 12 person party. notice i didn't say "noobs" - they are hopeless.

Every other raid put in the game was put in at whatever level was end game at the time the raid was released. This is the first raid to come in below end game level and it came in massively below. Had it been implemented without a 3 day timer (ala Tempest Spine) I could see the purpose of having a low level raid. But as it stand, the raid makes more sense at somewhere around level 14-18 than 6.

that is correct, and if you look at my join date you'll know that i was there when all these new, shiny raids were put in. i can tell you that with a lvl cap of 12, 14 and 16, it made no sense to put a raid in at lvl 6. all effort was being (rightly) put into pushing the game to the natural level cap of 20. now that the lvl cap has been achieved then lower level raids can be put in to back fill for the lower levels. even a lvl 5 toon needs a challenge now and again and chrono provides it nicely. the timer is common to all raids except TS (and i think that should be changed to be consistent, but that's a different thread) and should remain on all raids no matter the level. raids are supposed to be special things - more difficult to beat and producing shinier toys than other quests at level. the timer prevents people from over-farming for this extra shiny loot.

Although I agree, that it shouldn't drop +3 tomes on 20th runs if the base level of the raid remains level 6. You'd need to raise the whole thing up to level 14 or above.

i think everyone agrees that +3 tomes out of this raid is silly.

[MrWizard]

well I would say not signed, but even level 20s only do it on norm anyway...I doubt they would attempt elite except for favor. And favor is important to some...

nah, leave it like it is, no one runs it elite except for favor...not even for xp.

Obviously the loot is great enough that I see tons of level 20s going in there on normal just to get it...and waiting for a full party so others can too.

seems like they hit it perfect.

[sephiroth1084]

so by your math at level 18 you have 6 raids lvl 14 and higher - raids which drop viable end game loot. the lowest is Reaver which drops HoGF, Dreamspitter, Madstone boots, ect. Plus you are not including end game gear quests such as SoS and Mindsunder/Dreaming Dark which drop viable end game gear. so yes, that is plenty. and i am including ToD on this list because a properly geared lvl 18 toon should do just fine in ToD.

you can add in VON (lvl 10) because people will farm it for SoS and other items to upgrade when they run Epic.
you can add in Titan (lvl 12) because chattering ring and 7 fingered gloves are still viable at end game as stackable bonuses
you can add in ADQ (lvl 12) just for the torq - one of the most sought after items in the game - as well as the greenblade

so there are plenty of raids available to a lvl 18 toon.

Grinding lower level raids for no XP or challenge just for loot doesn't count for this sort of discussion.

false. you do not understand the purpose of the raid. all you are looking for is totally uberz minmax lootz. chrnoscope was designed for a couple of reasons:

1) to give lower level players a raiding experience and some cool mid level loot.
2) as a teaching raid so that newbs learn how to coordinate tactics in a 12 person party. notice i didn't say "noobs" - they are hopeless.

And in this capacity the raid serves zero purpose on hard and elite difficulties at levels 7 and 8. New players aren't going to be running hard and elite, and the hardcore gamers probably aren't in the level range to run it more than once or twice on hard and elite for XP anyway.

At least by bumping the raid up in similar fashion to DA it remains relevant for more of a toon's life.

i think everyone agrees that +3 tomes out of this raid is silly.

As a 20th reward, yes, unless the completions could differentiate between difficulties, but putting +3 tomes in the end chest would be reasonable.

Personally, I think all of the raids, with the exception, perhaps, of Tempest's Spine, should gain DA-like leveling. The raids were put in at previous level caps as end game content, as something for players to do once they were capped and had no where else to go, so requiring 10-20 runs of the quest to acquire an item made sense. Once the cap went up, though, that rationale fails, and we're left instead with players grinding a quest that poses no challenge simply to acquire the loot.

I'd aim for something like (normal, hard, elite, epic):
Chrono: 6 - 11 - 16 - 20
VoN 10 - 13 - 16 - 20
Titan 12 - 15 - 18
DQ 12 - 15 - 18 - 20
Reaver 15 - 17 - 19
Abbot 15 - 17 - 19 (I realize this is dropping the level of normal from what it is now; Abbot was 14 and got bumped up to 17 not long ago)

Hard should drop the same items as Normal, plus some token or other that can upgrade the base items.
Elite should drop both the base items as well as the Hard tokens, and also drop a different sort of token to further upgrade the items.

Droprates on normal should be increased. Droprates on hard for the base items should increase a bit from normal, and the tokens required should be acquired in 5-10 runs, rather than the 10-20 that is common for most raid loot. Elite token drops can be less common, as you aren't going to out-level the raid at that point.

Epic has its own system already. Maybe X number of a certain token could be turned into an appropriate epic seal or scroll or something along with an epic raid token.

The point is, raids, and raid mechanics were designed around the whole idea of their being endgame content, and once the endgame has progressed beyond them, those mechanics start to break down.

[Unreliable]

Theysaid they tried to do this, but their technological capabilies made it so the only way they could realistically do this was to essentially make 3 separate chronoscope raids with different levels. They did not want to go through the effort, so they used their standard hard and elite to save time/money on this raid.

[sephiroth1084]

Theysaid they tried to do this, but their technological capabilies made it so the only way they could realistically do this was to essentially make 3 separate chronoscope raids with different levels. They did not want to go through the effort, so they used their standard hard and elite to save time/money on this raid.

Normal to Epic seemed doable without changing the raid drastically.

[sirgog]

Normal to Epic seemed doable without changing the raid drastically.

Yeah, they basically made two separate raids (Norm and Epic) and had Hard/Elite be just Normal with slightly higher stats.

Devil Assault, OTOH, is four completely different quests that just happen to share a map and some scripting.

I'd rather they did put the effort in on making 4 different Chronos, however. Chrono Epic is a great raid, but with only one difficulty setting it can't be balanced for all players. It's marginally too easy for geared veterans, but far too hard for fresh 20s, and unlike most other raids, it has some serious gearchecks (especially for arcane casters).

Adding an Elite setting that's close in difficulty to Hard/Elite Shroud, that still drops the Chrono level 5 raid loot but also drops some higher level 'good stuff' like Shards of Power, Greensteel blanks, Shroud smalls/mediums (in the miniboss chests) and larges (~30% drop rate from the end chest and optional chests) would spice up high level play. As for Hard - take the current Elite mode, up boss HP by 125% and trash HP 50%, and all saves by 2, and call this 'level 12 Hard'. Have it be an alternate place to get the stupidly rare Devil Assault handwraps too.

[notforyou]

Grinding lower level raids for no XP or challenge just for loot doesn't count for this sort of discussion.

And in this capacity the raid serves zero purpose on hard and elite difficulties at levels 7 and 8. New players aren't going to be running hard and elite, and the hardcore gamers probably aren't in the level range to run it more than once or twice on hard and elite for XP anyway.

At least by bumping the raid up in similar fashion to DA it remains relevant for more of a toon's life.
As a 20th reward, yes, unless the completions could differentiate between difficulties, but putting +3 tomes in the end chest would be reasonable.

Personally, I think all of the raids, with the exception, perhaps, of Tempest's Spine, should gain DA-like leveling. The raids were put in at previous level caps as end game content, as something for players to do once they were capped and had no where else to go, so requiring 10-20 runs of the quest to acquire an item made sense. Once the cap went up, though, that rationale fails, and we're left instead with players grinding a quest that poses no challenge simply to acquire the loot.

I'd aim for something like (normal, hard, elite, epic):
Chrono: 6 - 11 - 16 - 20
VoN 10 - 13 - 16 - 20
Titan 12 - 15 - 18
DQ 12 - 15 - 18 - 20
Reaver 15 - 17 - 19
Abbot 15 - 17 - 19 (I realize this is dropping the level of normal from what it is now; Abbot was 14 and got bumped up to 17 not long ago)

Hard should drop the same items as Normal, plus some token or other that can upgrade the base items.
Elite should drop both the base items as well as the Hard tokens, and also drop a different sort of token to further upgrade the items.

Droprates on normal should be increased. Droprates on hard for the base items should increase a bit from normal, and the tokens required should be acquired in 5-10 runs, rather than the 10-20 that is common for most raid loot. Elite token drops can be less common, as you aren't going to out-level the raid at that point.

Epic has its own system already. Maybe X number of a certain token could be turned into an appropriate epic seal or scroll or something along with an epic raid token.

The point is, raids, and raid mechanics were designed around the whole idea of their being endgame content, and once the endgame has progressed beyond them, those mechanics start to break down.

no... just no...