An Interview with a WoW Player

[stoerm]

As a new player you have no way of knowing the recommend level, the hardness of the dungeon.

"I don't want to explore and get to know the areas. I don't want to learn the user interface."

"I want to be spoon fed everything. I don't want to be challenged, I want an interactive story I can click my way through."

The quest list including levels are right THERE! It's even limited to your level range.

If these are causing you problems you won't be able to deal with the game mechanics anyway. Call it a lithmus test to show the player early on whether this is their kind of game. Fact is, not everything can or should be made simple. You could dumb down Falcon 4.0, but it wouldn't be a flight sim anymore.

[Lunzatis]

Did your friend ever stop to think that DDO is based on D&D and without D&D there would be no WoW? I don't want DDO as a copy of WoW or any other MMO. DDO is as it should be, it is based on the party and quest system just like pen and paper D&D. D&D has never been about one player going through and killing and looting. It's about getting a group of people or friends together and going through a dungeoun. It's about the epic battles at the end of the quest. About facing a challenge and when you succeed, sometimes after multiple runs, the feeling of accomplishment. This is the heart of DDO and to change that would be like spitting on the graves of Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson. The fact the two actually had a hand in creating two of the adventure packs and being the dm's voice in two of the quests means they liked what DDO was doing. I read what some of your friend said and noticed the whole skipping tutorial thing. Guess what, it's called veteran status. That allows you to completely skip korthos and you can actually earn it in game. Finding a lever is actually easy. Did he ever try tab or backspace? People are able to solo wilderness areas, he just wants it made easier or isn't willing to put in the work to do it. There is a flow to the story, it's called the adventure packs and it follows the same strategy as D&D. You get your quest from someone and you go through that quest or quests until you finish that story line. The only idea of his that I liked was the different color goblets for the quests and level range. WoW is all about the individual where as DDO is all about the group or party. If he wants solo and selfish then stay with WoW aka the Kiddie Pool. When he's ready for a more mature and experienced game, then he can come back to DDO.

[Darsith]

first off, I love how DDO works. Having come from other games the exp per mob can be frustrating.

However, this is not a basement game anymore. This is a business. I think making a change to altering WILDERNESS AREAS to a per mob xp mechanic could go a long way in attracting new players.

Now I know there are those that are all: "We dun want the stoopid wow nubzoorz!!" But as a business Turbine needs to be thinking on how to steal away the players from other games.

I would support WILDERNESS AREAS being changed to this, but would not be happy and most likely quit if the actual quests changed to a per mob xp mechanic. I honestly dont see anything wrong with having this change happen to accommodate more players.

[Dragavon]

There needs to be way more non instance content. It seems only the cities are non instance there needs to be large open space with baddies. The number 1 thing I would change about DDO if I had to pick one thing would be that monsters gave experience and dropped freaking loot especially in the wilderness zones so a casual or soloer can just farm them for exp and money. Even if the loot is vendor trash.

NO NO NO NO

NO

NO!!!!

This is why I play DDO and no other games. I do NOT want to stand around waiting for a monster to spawn along with a gazillion other players that need to kill that particular monster.

If DDO ever moves down this road I am outta here.

If your friend wants that let him stay in WoW.

[krud]

As far as quest flow, they used to have a story line "earning a reputation" (or something like that) chain in the harbor. When you picked up your first quest off the boat one of the NPCs gave you a separate, non-xp, quest in which you would talk to people in the harbor one by one to advance it. It basically got you to run around the harbor and find out what was where, in the meantime you would pick up the various harbor quests, and run them. I don't even know if it still exists because after a few times through you know the harbor like the back of your hand, and no longer need the help.

I think that side quests like that can be helpful to a new person. Add another when you get to the marketplace for the first time, and again when you start exploring the various houses. After that point you should have picked up enough knowledge to not need the hand-holding anymore.

By far, the comment I least agree with was about the game beginning at level 20. It couldn't be further from the truth (no matter what the power gamers try to tell you). The game is fascinating at every point along the way. If you only got your eyes set on end game, you pass up a huge portion of really good play, and set yourself up for a quick burnout.

[Kelavam]

I will admit that the game can be a little difficult or intimidating for some people. Anyone not familiar with DnD in any form will be overwhelmed in some way shape or form. As a gamer and avid Tabletop DnDer (2.5 or less, never got into 3), I really did not have that much difficulty getting the hang of the mechanics of the game. I like the way the gave varies from other MMOs I have played - I like that I do not do a simple point and click to run up and start auto attacking a monster.

My wife had some issues with the game at first, and because of this, I sat down with her and helped her run her first character through the grotto. With the tutorial and my help, she got the hang of it pretty quickly.

The biggest/hardest part of the game for a newbie I could see as being character builds and development. As we have learned, the people that run through the forums only encompass a small percentage of the actual gamers. They do not know the forums are a good place to do research and to learn more about the game. Other games' forums were usually gripe-fests and flaming (from what I saw) so it's not unexpected that many new players avoid the forums altogether.

And I have noticed very few people approach games like I do - I try to avoid spoilers and try to avoid the "min/max" builds. I want to play what I want to play and if I mess it up, I will have fun making another character. Or trying to fix the one I have. So coming to the forums, for me, did not happen until I had played the game a couple of months. And I might not have shown up at all if someone had not pointed out to me that the forums were a great source of information. I already used several sites (ddowiki) to get some information, but never thought about the forums based on what I had encountered in previous MMOs.

I never played WoW. I think I watched a friend play for about 20 minutes and decided it was not what I was looking for in an MMO. Not to say it is a bad game, but it's not what I want. DDO is unique in many of its aspects and I prefer a game that offers a challenge and makes you think.

[Missing_Minds]

One thing that would SEVERELY HELP new players.... Esp in this day and age...

Why the frack aren't their any video guides explaining how to do things?

How to use the UI? Now that they can open up myddo.com inside an ingame web browser, what is the freaking hold up?

A video guide to explain how wizards learn new spells, let alone how to select them in a tavern or at rest.
A video guide that explains enhancements and how to equip them to the hot bar, let alone also make mention that as they level up, new ones need to be put in to replace the previous.
A video guide that explains lesser/greater res as well as TR.
A video guide to explain how to use the quest compendium, the in game maps, etc.
A video guide to explain how to charge up and use monk combos.

I've made this suggestion many times before. It would only HELP this game.

[Illiain]

I think your friend would really like LotRo. That was what put me off from that game, the fact that it's all about soloing wilderness areas and killing 47 Snowshoe Hillbeats and returning for quest completions.

I loved the scenery, story lines and plot but I really prefer grouping and doing instances to soloing boars in every zone. Even the zone that doesn't have boars has a quest to look for the non existing boar.

Edit: He said he liked how DDO does their transactions, well LotRo has almost the exact same window, and it should retain what he liked about it.

[boomeranky]

A lot of interesting ideas, I agree with some and disagree with others like everybody...

But one thing I wanted to note...

There is no reason to alt-enter so you can look into ddowiki on a browser... the game supplies a fully functional ingame browser.

And this is where the tutorial in korthos is lacking a bit, the gui itself. It is a bit complicated to setup the link section in your myddo account, but nevertheless you can add any site including search machines to it so you can access them from the ingame browser.

For whatever (security? not really) reason the ingame browser does not support entering url's directly, so you have to go the way over your myddo account link menu setup, and many people never realise that even after half a decade of playing ddo.

I have puzzle solvers, links to maps, search machines, crafting planners whatever accessible without having to switch away from the game.

[Dragavon]

There needs to be way more non instance content. It seems only the cities are non instance there needs to be large open space with baddies. The number 1 thing I would change about DDO if I had to pick one thing would be that monsters gave experience and dropped freaking loot especially in the wilderness zones so a casual or soloer can just farm them for exp and money. Even if the loot is vendor trash.

NO NO NO NO

NO

NO!!!!

This is why I play DDO and no other games. I do NOT want to stand around waiting for a monster to spawn along with a gazillion other players that need to kill that particular monster.

If DDO ever moves down this road I am outta here.

If your friend wants a game like that let him stay in WoW.

[protokon]

<snip>

Being as DDO was my first MMO, the concept of color=level difficulty on mobs was new to me.
In Lotro I told my wife. "Hey, lets go kill that bear".
wife : Hun.. that thing is purple!
me: So? It is only what.. 5 levels above us? We can take it out.
errrr..... not even close. Talk about a spanking from that fight, and I've never made that mistake again. To her credit, she didn't get mad, but let me learn my lesson. And teases me about that bear to this day.

That's hilarious, I have been playing eq2 for the last couple of weeks and I was a sucker at the color-coded mobs as well. if the thing is red-named, it meant instant-death. of course, with myself being a cocky healer with my experienced paladin friend, i charged at the red-named lion, only to watch my friend die a horrible death while I feebly tried to keep his arse alive, reveling in the horror that I was the next course after he was finished.
it erked me that orange-named mobs were 'difficult, but not impossible if controlled properly' going to a red-named that (although only 1 level higher than the orange) was shearly over-powering to the extend there was no tactics against it - it's just instant death.

[charmor]

However, this is not a basement game anymore. This is a business. I think making a change to altering WILDERNESS AREAS to a per mob xp mechanic could go a long way in attracting new players.

I agree completely.

I like the kind of complex quests that only DDO gives, but there are some days I don't want to feel stressed or pressured by an objective, and just want to go out and kill some monsters. Not every day I'm in the mood to start The Pit, if you understand me..

There are the slayer quests, sure, but they give too little exp for the amount of time spent, and you have to reach milestones to get rewarded. Changing Wilderness Ares to an unlimited per mob xp mechanic as a way to skip boring quests or just enjoy some combat would improve the game a lot IMO.

[krud]

too little exp for the amount of time spent, and you have to reach milestones to get rewarded. Changing Wilderness Ares to an unlimited per mob xp mechanic as a way to skip boring quests or just enjoy some combat would improve the game a lot IMO.

wait a minute... replace boring(?) quests with a mechanic that is even more boring and mind numbing?

I'm sorry, but there are plenty of ways people can resolve the boredom issue for themselves if they would just take the time to run more obcsure content. The problem is that people want a ton of xp just so they can zoom their way to cap again. It's not a problem of too many boring quests, it's a problem of too many people running the same stuff to the point of boredom. "I don't want to be bored, but I'm doing everything possible to drive myself to boredom"

[Jay203]

dear OP
please refer your friend to a game called Rift that's coming out soon

[Missing_Minds]

There is no reason to alt-enter so you can look into ddowiki on a browser... the game supplies a fully functional ingame browser.

And if you aren't careful, a very easy way to get web virus/i onto your system. Unless I'm hitting up a site I trust, I do NOT use the in game browser.

[AZgreentea]

And if you aren't careful, a very easy way to get web virus/i onto your system. Unless I'm hitting up a site I trust, I do NOT use the in game browser.

I dont use the ingame browser simply because I already have all of my links and such set up in FF. Now with the ability to keep the sound going when the game dosent have focus, I can keep up with things a little better too.

[Wrendd]

I don't understand "The game starts at <cap-level>." What does that mean? Obviously, taken literally, it's incorrect. So, what's the interpretation I'm missing? Games *change* at cap-level. Is there any MMO that is not true for?

What they mean by "the game starts at the lvl cap" is that there is A LOT of content that can be only accessed once your character has reached the maximum level for the game, and then it becomes a gear grind. We have a decent gear grind in epic quests here, but it is just different in other games.

Imagine if The Vale, Shavarath, Reavers Refuge, IQ, The Orchard, Gianthold and Demon Sands were all lvl 20 only. And you had to get all the good gear from the vale to have any chance at running quests in Shavarath, and then you needed all the gear from Shavarath to survive in Reaver's Refuge, and then had to get all the set related gear from there to begin questing in IQ, etc. etc.

Games like WoW are very "top heavy" and they use a tierd gear format where you have to have all (or mostly all) of the Tier 1 gear before you go after the T2 gear and so on. Not really my cup of tea, but some people enjoy it.

I will admit that some of the raids in WoW were a lot of fun (I left WoW quite a while before BC came out, as a matter of fact I think I left within a week or 2 of Zul Gurub, and that was a LONG time ago in MMO time). But I got tired of the fact that I HAD to continue running the same quests to finish my gear set before I could move on to the next level of raids, and at this time all we really had were Onyxia, Molten Core and Darrkwing Lair (which was not even complete yet, IIRC).

[Wraithkin]

Another view point -

I agree a lot with a lot of the people saying no to another WoW Clone.

If you want linear questing, go the the tab in game that shows you the list of Rep/Quests.

Go to the quests list.

Put it in order of level.

You now have a linear leveling list that includes all of the major plot lines including the war with Droaam, Stormreaver's chain and Amarath's chain. All three of those are major plot arcs that are covered by this.

I do not like the kill x creatures for y experience. I had some players who just did that in a pen and paper game. Most boring thing ever. It was just like WoW is. Please, please, please keep the XP system the way it is. We get little bonuses for finding traps, for finding named mobs and landmarks. You can play to your personal style and then get rewarded for further exploration. If you need to solo, go into an explorer, they are all generally very easy to do two levels below suggested, get you acclimated to the area and find the quests.

The open and free form of the game is what lends itself to tinkering, which a lot of us seem to like. The harsh reality that if you don't finish the quest you (generally) don't get the xp reward is refreshing. Yes, it's frustrating, but it's a good mechanic. It encourages team work and problem solving as a team. There is a lot less baby sitting and reliance on two babysitters giving guided tours that you encounter in WoW. I played WoW for 5 years, quit and have never looked back.

Please, don't become another WoW clone, that way lies madness. And stuff.

[TheKeg]

It was an interesting read and it sounds like he's playing the correct game (WoW).

A few comments of my own....

Agreements:
I agree with the learning for new people. Start off with a single chalice highlighted and branch from there to the other quests. Maybe have this town crier sort allow the player to ask for the a different level or challenge and be directed to those quests (saving Proof and the like for later in the learning curve). I'd be fine with seeing this setup for Korthos, Harbor and Market, and after completing some number of quests, have this crier direct players to the houses. Of course, having the option of skipping this (like the Grotto) would be an option.

Of course, this is all pretty available from fellow gamers. Sure, you'll get a few D-bags giving advice or heckling you, but there are plenty of willing teachers out there in the world.


Differences:
Color coding - I don't know why, but I cringe at the color coding of the challices. Leave this alone, PLEASE! You can already sort the quests by level with the quest panel.

Instances - I like the way DDO currently has it. DDO being my first MMO, I don't really have personal experience with the rest, but I've seen my friends play and talk about other MMOs. I'd have to say it didn't sound/look too appealing.

[Missing_Minds]

Color coding - I don't know why, but I cringe at the color coding of the challices. Leave this alone, PLEASE! You can already sort the quests by level with the quest panel.

Maybe the idea of seeing skittles everywhere? That is one of the reasons I suggest that the quest difficulty selection text should be color coded instead....

errk... need to make that optional I just realized for color blind people.