New DPS chart

[Consumer]

Do you need to be at the top of these charts to be even considered useful for end game questing and raiding?

No, you can run the raids with all DPS only doing 300/400 DPS and have no problem.

[grodon9999]

Do you need to be at the top of these charts to be even considered useful for end game questing and raiding?

No, not at all. We crushed and EChrono on Monday without one fighter or barb in the group. My Ranger tanked.

Aim for 300 BFD DPS (50% fort, Devil DR) and you'll be a fine, contributing member to any party.

[NaturalHazard]

No, you can run the raids with all DPS only doing 300/400 DPS and have no problem.

but if someone falls under those numbers but we have someone else at the top of the charts will his uberness make up for the other guys gimpness?

[NaturalHazard]

No, not at all. We crushed and EChrono on Monday without one fighter or barb in the group. My Ranger tanked.

Aim for 300 BFD DPS (50% fort, Devil DR) and you'll be a fine, contributing member to any party.

yeah did vod elite yesterday there where no fighters and barbs, but mainly paladins, with a couple of rangers and monks. The bard got scared lol, "omg we dont have enough dps!!!"" lol it was the fastest smoothest elite vod ive ever done, not that it counts much ive only done like 5-6? still.

[sephiroth1084]

Let me see if I can get the class-based to-hit bonuses right off the top of my head (I'll probably forget a few):

Barbarians: +8 str from rage, +2 str from capstone, +2 str from frenzy, +4 str from death frenzy, for total of +16 str or +8 to-hit, with additional +2 str (+1 to-hit) if using the FB set, +2 str (+1 to-hit) from power rage if halforc +4 Str from Power Rage, -3 from Barbarian PA enhancements (ignore racial enhancements as they can be constant across all classes) for +7 to-hit before FB set

Corrected the barbarian to-hit figure.

For rogues you also forgot to include the fact that they are down 5 points from BAB.

[Consumer]

For rogues you also forgot to include the fact that they are down 5 points from BAB.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Madstone_Boots

[Kinerd]

A better method in my humble opinion would be to list the base DPS for each build with 0 gear and a masterwork weapon, and list the amount a single point of damage over 20 hits scales the build

There are two main problems with this method. First, and less important, is that what sort of damage we're talking about has different effects. Something like shocking burst has to be taken into account differently than something like a +1 weapon, and that differently is almost always different for different build types. The difference between +1 and shocking burst for a 20 unarmed monk is way different than the difference for a 20 THF barb. Second, and crucial, is that there are weapons that cannot be treated as base weapons with perks attached, mostly due to critical profile issues. The most obviously relevant example of this is the eSoS: although it is nominally a greatsword, it has +1 to threat range and multiplier from an ordinary greatsword. If it was 19-20 x2, I could just take the method you describe with a masterwork greatsword and pretend it had a +20.5 to damage. It's not, so I can't. Ways like Aaxeyu's are the only way to really talk about things like eSoS, and you can't really talk about DPS without doing so, yes?

So instead of calculating for what the build can do, you calculate for what .1% of everyone in the game can do with the stars aligned gear in a stars aligned situation, then tell us that top tier DPS is that number.

Very small % of people run epics and a very small % of those people have all the gear you are calculating with.

This is what the word "top" without qualification means. Only 0.00000001% of people were ever Michael Jordan. Anyone who says that Michael Jordan isn't the top basketball player of all time is kidding themselves.

[sephiroth1084]

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Madstone_Boots

Oh yeah, I guess in a pure DPS situation. But that's where these DPS calcs break down a bit.

[Consumer]

Oh yeah, I guess in a pure DPS situation. But that's where these DPS calcs break down a bit.

No, BaB and madstone are used in the calc. Not just in a pure DPS situation, a single madstone rage is +2 str and +4 con giving 40 HP (almost 10% of most Rogues HP). Any Rogue not using them is not playing his toon properly.

[sephiroth1084]

No, BaB and madstone are used in the calc. Not just in a pure DPS situation, a single madstone rage is +2 str and +4 con giving 40 HP (almost 10% of most Rogues HP). Any Rogue not using them is not playing his toon properly.

I disagree. Having access to your UMD is often more important than the extra DPS, though not always. Depends on the situation and party. The extra HP, while nice, is rarely needed.

[Consumer]

I disagree. Having access to your UMD is often more important than the extra DPS, though not always. Depends on the situation and party. The extra HP, while nice, is rarely needed.

In a party you rarely need UMD, everything you can do with UMD a party member can do for a small amount of sp. If you use UMD to buff you are not madstone raged while buffing anyway.



UMD is useful for when everyone starts dying, DPS and HP prevent people from dying.

[sephiroth1084]

In a party you rarely need UMD, everything you can do with UMD a party member can do for a small amount of sp. If you use UMD to buff you are not madstone raged while buffing anyway.



UMD is useful for when everyone starts dying, DPS and HP prevent people from dying.

Heal scrolls tend to do a better job of that in many situations, and rez scrolls more so. /shrug

I was mistaken, partly, on the BAB issue for rogues. Sometimes it's there and sometimes not.

[Consumer]

Heal scrolls tend to do a better job of that in many situations, and rez scrolls more so. /shrug

I was mistaken, partly, on the BAB issue for rogues. Sometimes it's there and sometimes not.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spellivine_Power - acquire some clickies

[stoolcannon]

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Item:Madstone_Boots - you can't cast while madstoned and all DPS toons use the boots

Telling me an optional gear item equates to a class limitation is a pretty thin argument

A DPS Rogue has to switch gear much like anyone else to reach a high enough UMD to no fail cast heal scrolls. In a DPS thread self healing is generally ignored for the most part because a DPS toon runs with a healer whenever possible. Divines cast prayer (luck) increasing DPS for classes without divine favor. A DPS Rogue is also madstoned whenever possible preventing casting just like the Barb.

Once again, no class has to wear madstone boots, barbs can't take off madstone boots and do any of those other things without further dismissing rage, so in short, you're wrong.


Play a Barb then a Fighter, the difference between the damage taken is very obvious. The massive amounts of easy HP the Barb gets compared to the Fighter who is sacrificing DPS to take extra toughness feats and enhancements compounds this.

Provide a HP breakdown of the MAX Dps Barb vs the Max DPS fighter and then let's talk. Fighters have plenty of feats to spend that they can afford toughness multiple times


I ignored it because it is a non issue. If a Bard can keep up a Barb no problem then I'm sure the divines that most people run most quests with will have no problem healing through the mall amount of damage you inflict to yourself. It has certainly never been an issue for me.

I guess you're just that leet that an extra 200-600 damage per minute is no big deal. Congratulations, you win an entire internet. Maybe instead of removing it the devs should add more so elite players like you can feel the hurt.


I also forgot about Barbs movement speed bonuses for a second, they are very useful to have.
Yes it makes running from place to place take less time.

bbbrappp

[Consumer]

Once again, no class has to wear madstone boots, barbs can't take off madstone boots and do any of those other things without further dismissing rage, so in short, you're wrong.

This is a DPS thread and DPS builds use madstone. There is no argument here, they use madstone and if they don't the are quite simply not playing their toon to the best it can be.

Provide a HP breakdown of the MAX Dps Barb vs the Max DPS fighter and then let's talk. Fighters have plenty of feats to spend that they can afford toughness multiple times.

Feel free to check any of the builds I have put up they all contain breakdowns.

I guess you're just that leet that an extra 200-600 damage per minute is no big deal. Congratulations, you win an entire internet. Maybe instead of removing it the devs should add more so elite players like you can feel the hurt.

It doesn't effect good players at any point in the game, if it is that much of a problem it is not me being "elite" that is out of the ordinary.

Yes it makes running from place to place take less time.

If that is all it is to you then it is clear what type of player you are.

[SEMPER]

I need to ask, have you ever tanked Elite Horoth? Got try that on a 500 HP rogue and get back to us.

I have with about 540 hps on Bray a couple times when needed to you can look at his build if you like but its possible and easy for the clerics to heal , now 'm not saying it is a perfect picture on the hps side but for now he does his job till it is his time for his Tr but for now I have to say thanx have a great day

[stoolcannon]

This is a DPS thread and DPS builds use madstone. There is no argument here, they use madstone and if they don't the are quite simply not playing their toon to the best it can be.


Then do us all a favor and don't respond to an argument about class limitation with a response about gear. Kthanks


Feel free to check any of the builds I have put up they all contain breakdowns.

Pics or work

It doesn't effect good players at any point in the game, if it is that much of a problem it is not me being "elite" that is out of the ordinary.

A the peak end of 600 damage in a minute that's 10dps. Not an insignificant amount where comparing max DPS. It's no different when that DPS is to yourself. It's not an insignificant amount and can sometimes be the difference between dropping and not dropping. I've failed a disentegrate check on a 900+hp dwarf barbarian and been taken to -20. No frenzy and death frenzy and I'm still on my feet and may have time for the next heal to land

If that is all it is to you then it is clear what type of player you are.

Oh I'm super elite, just ask me

.....

[The_Phenx]

Corrected the barbarian to-hit figure.

For rogues you also forgot to include the fact that they are down 5 points from BAB.

Divine Power Clickies or Madstone

[R0cksteady]

I'm just confused as to why this is done with the Epic SOS for THF and Min IIs for TWF. If you're using the best THF, why not use one of the better Kopeshes, like Lit II or Epic Chaos Blades? Besides that, the chart looks good.

I'm actually shocked to see TWF still doing more against no fort and medium fort enemies than THF with the SoS and Horc enhancements factored in.

I'm also happy to see Barbs almost as much as fighters, as they should. The way people talk, it's as if Fighters are far better lately.

[jakeelala]

I will probably get yelled at for asking, but there's no way I could figure out how to use that sheet correctly I downloaded it and everything.

I have a ranger 12 tempest / 6 pally KOTC / 2 rogue. Dual wielding khopeshes his damage FEELS very high, as I'm constantly spamming Divine Sacrifice pretty much non stop for entire raids/quests. The exrtra crit modifer which generally allows for double procs because of tempest 2 seems to make very large hits happen very frequently. I don't know if this keeps up with or out DPS's the other ranger 12 /6 XXX / 2 Rog builds, but I am very curious. Divine sacarafice is amazing. Also, it's 5d6 light damage every 3 seconds which is like 8 DPS, right?

Maybe no one cares, but if you wanna run it I'm super curious.