Rangers need love

[grodon9999]

Tempest III: Double-strike equal to DEX bonus +5%, 100% off-hand STR
Ranger 18: Improved Evasion

That and we have a winner.

[NaturalHazard]

Tempest III: Double-strike equal to DEX bonus +5%, 100% off-hand STR
Ranger 18: Improved Evasion

That and we have a winner.

I like but I doubt it will ever happen.

[Hadrian]

Tempest III: Double-strike equal to DEX bonus +5%, 100% off-hand STR

I've seen this brought up a lot on this post. My question is - why something that benefits dex-based characters so much?

While it might be a nice boost for a different playstyle, it doesn't help all rangers equally and just pushes rangers toward getting more dex. It doesn't really add diversity to the game, but changes the dominant ranger build to something else no less specific.

[grodon9999]

I've seen this brought up a lot on this post. My question is - why something that benefits dex-based characters so much?

A Ranger with a sustainable STR over 40 can still have a sustainable DEX over 30 (I know, I have two of them). How does this just help DEX-based toons? Sure it helps apes who dumped DEX less, but why the hell are they playing rangers anyway?

Some number cruncher (probably me) will find the right STR/DEX combo for the most DPS if this is ever introduced.

While it might be a nice boost for a different playstyle, it doesn't help all rangers equally and just pushes rangers toward getting more dex. It doesn't really add diversity to the game, but changes the dominant ranger build to something else no less specific.

It's fits the whirliing-steel-theme and quite frankly is simply makes sense that a more dexterous character would swing faster.

[Hadrian]

Some number cruncher (probably me) will find the right STR/DEX combo for the most DPS if this is ever introduced.

This is basically restating what I said. It just shifts the ideal ranger build to a bit higher dexterity.

Why not make a suggestion that fits in better with how things are currently since it doesn't add anything to the diversity of builds? All this does is annoyingly make people change how they have their characters set up.

A Ranger with a sustainable STR over 40 can still have a sustainable DEX over 30 (I know, I have two of them).

And yeah, I play a ranger as my main too. I don't think that I have disputed this or claimed to be unaware of it.

[Thucydides04]

I've seen this brought up a lot on this post. My question is - why something that benefits dex-based characters so much?

While it might be a nice boost for a different playstyle, it doesn't help all rangers equally and just pushes rangers toward getting more dex. It doesn't really add diversity to the game, but changes the dominant ranger build to something else no less specific.

Why shouldn't it? Dex is the primary stat for rangers... kind of like how divine might works with paladins and charisma. Dex is the class' primary stat, thus I see no issue with it being the dictating factor in realizing these benefits. It does not change the dominant Ranger build, instead it makes the primary class stat important and leaves choice to the player as to how to allocate stats. DPS will now be a function of both dex and str. If you can't plan a toon well I suppose this change would bother you, however for those that are capable of building a toon with cost-benefit analysis in mind it seems like a pretty viable and much needed change to the class.

[Hadrian]

Why shouldn't it?

To make what I have been saying very short and simple:

Because DDO has spent a couple of years going in the opposite direction.

Given that it doesn't really add diversity, but just shifts the ideal min/max build, it seems a bit like an arbitrary change meant to annoy the max strength builds.

Keep in mind that my ranger is weapon finesse based with an above average strength (can sustain over 30 and temporarily break 40 with titan's grip). This would be a huge DPS boost to my 40+ dex. I am not complaining from the perspective of someone who would be annoyed.

[Thucydides04]

To make what I have been saying very short and simple:

Because DDO has spent a couple of years going in the opposite direction.

Given that it doesn't really add diversity, but just shifts the ideal min/max build, it seems a bit like an arbitrary change meant to annoy the max strength builds.

Keep in mind that my ranger is weapon finesse based with an above average strength (can sustain over 30 and temporarily break 40 with titan's grip). This would be a huge DPS boost to my 40+ dex. I am not complaining from the perspective of someone who would be annoyed.

My statement was not directed at you, just to those who do not understand why their ranger would be **** because they made horc with max str and con. However I see no problem with min/maxing and it isn't really addressing the min/max problem. This solution addresses the "Rangers are gimped" problem by adding more dps to the build in a way that offers a trade off. Improving ranger dps is how many (myself included) feel would be a good first step in the right directioon for the class.

[Hadrian]

My statement was not directed at you, just to those who do not understand why their ranger would be **** because they made horc with max str and con. However I see no problem with min/maxing and it isn't really addressing the min/max problem. This solution addresses the "Rangers are gimped" problem by adding more dps to the build in a way that offers a trade off. Improving ranger dps is how many (myself included) feel would be a good first step in the right directioon for the class.

Don't quote me and respond to the quote directly if you don't want me to think you were talking to me. I don't really see you responding to any of my concerns here either (though you did repeat some of them). I will just assume your quoting me must have been a misclick, then.

[NaturalHazard]

To make what I have been saying very short and simple:

Because DDO has spent a couple of years going in the opposite direction.

Given that it doesn't really add diversity, but just shifts the ideal min/max build, it seems a bit like an arbitrary change meant to annoy the max strength builds.

Keep in mind that my ranger is weapon finesse based with an above average strength (can sustain over 30 and temporarily break 40 with titan's grip). This would be a huge DPS boost to my 40+ dex. I am not complaining from the perspective of someone who would be annoyed.

maybe it would make that +2 to dex class enhancements actually worth more?

[Brennie]

My thoughts on Rangers -

One of my level 20's is a pure 20 ranger, AA specced. There are a lot of thigns i love about ranger. And there are a lot of things I dislike.

First and foremost, let me say: I don't think Rangers should have the best TWF DPS. Why? Because Rangers have so much more going for them than straight dps, such as favored enemy, evasion and high reflex saves, a truckload of free feats, and some of the best spells in the game (Freedom of Movement, Resist Energy, Rams Might, Jump, and uh... Merfolks Blessing, and er... Snare.. and uhm... Spike Growth >_>). Okay so maybe the entire Ranger spell list isn't all winners, but the good spells are very very good!

So rangers can get GTWF and all the important ranged feats with a dex of 8 (but usually atleast 13, which is still much lower than the 17/19 all other classes need), have Evasion, plenty of feats to play with, and some fantastic spells. If, for the small price of a teir III PrE investment, you could out-DPS a TWF Kensai, or Frenzied TWF barb... what would be the point in playing either of those classes?

However, i do believe rangers have some lacking points, which brings me to

My ideas to help "boost" Rangers -

• Ranged overhaul. We all know is needs doing, so just do it. This would help both AA and Tempest, since Tempest do whip out a bow now and again. Suggestions i have are an overall increase in ranged attack speed, while tweaking manyshot to impose an attack speed penalty while active (Enough so that it still out DPSes normal ranged combat, but isn't 4x as much for 20 seconds.) This would help Balance manyshot against the new faster attack speeds, as well as making manyshot function slightly closer to how it does in PnP IE once per round. Hopefully that would mean Ranged specced rangers felt more comfortable ranging in most situations, and manyshot would be a "nice boost" but not "the only time ranging is worthwhile".

• Consolidation/Overhaul of Favored Enemy. Currently, there are many different FE types that are laughably unworthy of being on the FE list. Animals, vermin, oozes, plant, dragon, etc. These creatures are eitehr too rare to bothing specializing in, or too weak to care about. I figure theres two ways to fix this; Either Consolidate/overhaul actual monster types, or simply give broader categories of Favored Enemy. Examples: Combine, Animal, Magical Beast, and Vermin as a single favored enemy category (Perhaps call it "Beasts" and have the rollover list the exact types included in "beasts"). Do the same for Elves, Dwarves, Humans and Halflings (humanoid). Possibly toss Dragons in with Reptilians, mix Plants, Goblinoids and Orcs with Monsterous Humanoid, roll Teiflings into Evil Outsider, and... do something with oozes. We should end up having to make tough decisions about which Favored Enemy groups to take and which to omit.

• Buff Up Tempest III. This has been discussed many times before, but currently Tempest III isn't worth the 18 levels of ranger, let alone the extra feat requirement. A unique bonus, such as full strength to offhand, would be preferable in my eyes to extra double-strike. Making each weapon in a Tempests hands equally important (Both strike 100% of the time, both hit for full strength damage) would be the pinnacle of what Tempest stands for IMHO. Also, put less weight on the AC bonuses from Tempest. A pure ranger tempest will likely not give a rats patoot about AC. Monk splashes might, though

• More Good Ranger Spells. Hopefully with Druid in the works this is already on the agenda, but for now Rangers get stuck with some pretty lame spells. Having 4 spell slots for level 4, and 4 spells to fill it with leads to every high level ranger having exactly the same spell selection. Same goes for level 3 spells, since Summon Ally 3 is redundant with the Summon Ally 4 you are essentially forced to take anyway. Side note: Don't give rangers too many spells that include DC and spell penetration. These spells are a complete waste in a rangers hands, as they will never, ever land.

• More Capstones. Ranger is one of the few classes that has multiple distinct combat roles built into it. As it is, only one role (Ranged Combat) is being rewarded for going pure. Tempests need a Capstone that really makes them want to stick around til 20.

• A Second Look at Secondary Benefits. Two secondary ranger concerns are Half Elf Dilettante, and Ranger Past Life Feats:

Half Elf Dilettante: Ranger allows characters to use up to a maximum of 8 points of strength bonus with bows. This is the equivalent of 26 strength, This is a very low benchmark for any character who plans to use Bows as a primary means of combat, or even as an often-used secondary. For a non-ranged focsed character, this does extremely little in increase the poor performance of ranged weapons. Not only that, but a single "Any-class-can-get-it" feat, Bow Strength, is superior in all ways. A single level dip into ranger also gives this benefit (which is not true of other Dilettante benefits, such as rogue which can get +3d6 sneak attack damage, or Cleric which can act as level 10 for scroll purposes). I would propose the "Bow Strength Lite" benefit be replaced with the actual cornerstone benefit of rangers: Favored enemy! +2 damage versus Enemy Type X, enhancements add +1 damage per tier to a total of 5 (more or less, if that seems reasonable).

The Ranger Past Life passive feat is very nice for ranged characters. But what about TRing Tempests? +2 to ranged damage makes a poor damage source a tiny bit better, but is something that will likely be used to infrequently as to not even be noticeable as a benefit. The Stacking Elemental Resistences are nice, but so low they are also likely to never be noticed. I have no particular suggestion for how to improve this though, as it is good benefit to an AA wishing to multi-TR more AA's, but useless to anyone else.

The Ranger past life Active feat is even worse. +2 to spot (A decently good skill, and since most Past Lives include +2 to random skill I find this part acceptable), and 3 casts of Barkskin per rest. Really? Barkskin? I expect that the *only* TRed character willing to take this feat would be a very AC focused build (which is rare enough as it is). And only if they aren't taking ranger levels, since Rangers have plenty of SP to cast it on themselves. And not if they have access to barkskin potions. And not if they think some other Rangers would supply them with barkskin as necessary. And not if they're a bit tight on feats. My suggestion? Any other iconic ranger spell with more universal benefit. Resist Energy would be nice, and Rams Might would be superb! Granted, TRed rangers who are rangers again would still not bother with this feat, but Fighters, Barbs, Rogues, Bards etc might!

• Dismiss Charm. We can Dominate Animals, so we should be able to get rid of that blue hat when necessary (especially since there are so many "all enemies must die before this door can open" spots in DDO). Side Note: I thought animal empathy was useless at low levels. I could hardly ever make it land effectively, though i loved teh effect when I did. It also Irked me that it turned off my auto attack! Later in life, I noticed Improved Wild Empathy hanging out in my feats list and decided to give it a whirl. I noticed a 29 DC! Woo! Started trying to pop it on Wolves in Prey of the Hunter and it worked almost every time! I now love this ability, despite its extremely narrow usage.

EDIT: Oops one more!

• AA ToD Set. AA is a complete Prestige enhancement line. Lets get some prestige benefits from this set, a'ight ? Suggestions: Seeker Arrow (Stolen directly from the PnP prestige class), which would make all arrows fired by a full fledged AA "Seek" their target, like a magic missile. To-hit, AC, concealment (or perhaps they ignore concealment?) would all apply normally, but shots would no longer miss because of enemy movement. OR Each AA imbue would gain additional benefits, such as Fire Imbue causing a small-area fireball effect on vorpal strikes, Acid Arrow reducing enemy AC while active, Slayer Arrow reducing fortification when procced (5%?), Fear Arrow replacing Phantasmal Killer with Slay Living or Finger of Death, And the Force Imbues uh... trip check? I dunno. OR how about just 1d6 (d8? d10?) bonus damage of random elemental type per shot?

That's all i can come up with at the moment. I hope some of these suggestions are agreeable to others, and if so, i hope some of these suggestions find their way into Dev hands!

[LordPiglet]

I originally built a ranger because of the flexibility. But it's become less and less important with the twf changes. My exploiter is still fun, but something is definitely lacking. My original ranger is on her 3rd life and is going kensai II for power surge, and will have 12 points of strength above my exploiter when geared equally

[sephiroth1084]

Tempest II is AWESOME when splashed with something else, Tempest III is what's lacking.

Funny how a change in mechanics and the class shifted things around here, where previously Ranger was either a 6 or 18 level class, and is now a 6 or 12 (they really do stop getting significant benefits after 12).

What I'd like to see is double-strike equal to 5+ DEX bonus % for Tempest III. I'd also go with 100% STR on the off-hand.

Well, this only is addressing issues with Tempest.

Personally, I'd say reducing the prerequisites for Tempest by 1 feat (maybe change Spring Attack to require only 1 of Dodge or Mobility, and improve the latter somehow) and then add the Extra Favored Enemy feat to the game would help things quite a bit.

Honestly, the biggest problems with rangers are a lack of attack bonuses and DPS bonuses that are too narrowly applicable. Before epic came out, and the end game was filled with devils, elementals, constructs and aberrations, rangers were very strong. Getting +16 damage and extra attacks from your class on top of generic DPS improvements will do that, but when, in a lot of relevant content, you're sitting at +2 (3?) damage and extra attacks, you're in a bit a trouble, and that's what rangers are facing now.

As far as I'm concerned, this has always been a problem with rangers (back to PnP). Adding more Favored Enemies, or some way to more easily change your FEs seems like the best solution, especially since it applies irrespective of what type of ranger you are. Unfortunately, adding this as a feat without changing other parts of the game won't work since Ranger's feats are already tied up elsewhere.

[grodon9999]

Why not make a suggestion that fits in better with how things are currently since it doesn't add anything to the diversity of builds? All this does is annoyingly make people change how they have their characters set up.
.

Make your own suggestion, I like mine as is

[Hadrian]

Make your own suggestion, I like mine as is

Sephiroth's suggestion is a good example of a change that will benefit all rangers without suggesting one build or playstyle over the other.

They could also revert Ram's Might to the way it used to be, granting more damage as your ranger levels increased. This is an easy change that will help all rangers.

Other than that, they could focus on the strength of rangers in DDO - their versitility. It doesn't necessarily have to be about DPS. Your Improved Evasion suggestion is something along those lines.

Although this would take a lot of time/effort and really isn't practical, I'd love to see something done with ranger defining abilities that don't quite matter in DDO's system. What if rangers were compensated for the fact that animal summoning is fairly useless in DDO despite being a defining ability? Maybe a new line of ranger pets could act as buffers/debuffers for the group rather than being a normal combat NPC. For example, give rangers the ability to summon a pet that applies a sunder effect, gives a similar benefit to Jade Strike's debuff, or has a high chance to stun or trip that actually has a useful DC in later content. Maybe they could also grant small bonuses to the party while active, like +1 spell DC, +2 damage per swing or +5% maximum hit points.

This would be something that all rangers could benefit from, but of course it would be a fairly large overhaul.

[LordPiglet]

The fact of the matter is that there is nOthing that qualifies a tempest ranger as dps to the average player. I see plenty of "dps" lfm's on sarlona that don't include rangers (largely because of poor AA play fear). I even had to explain to a raid leader that my exploiter is Twf dps build (and any 18/1/1 or 12/x/x splash was probably a twf build). The ****** fact of the matter is that poor AA play, and poor use of ranger spells (mass camo) has annoyed some players.

[bigolbear]

please please stop.

Rangers are not supposed to be primary dps or tanks, they never were.

Rangers are light fighters and skirmishers and occupy a role somewhere between support (through magic and ranged combat) and scout/scirmisher.

The only love rangers need in my opinion is a tuffness line as men of the woods and country would be healthy and hardy. Also a capstone that is non archery - the suggested favoured enemy one is nice.

Comparing a ranger to a 2WF kensai.
for aproximately 25% less DPS against non favoured enemies and a marginal 5 to 10% against favoured enemies rangers get a heck of a lot.
1. decent use with a bow which is a situationaly great weapon - in my experience the 'situation' usualy lasts less than the manyshot timer.
2. The ability to buff an entire party with resists, fom, barkskin(unique to ranger curently) and camo for any one who's interested in stealth - not to mention mass longstrider which can save a slot for a whole group. A well built ranger does infact have the mana to handle all these buffs for a party of 6 and some can handle raids. The mana this saves is very useful to the arcanes and clerics.
3. 4 more skill points a lvl than a fighter and a much nicer selection of skills.

Rangers are stealth capable - fighters are not, rangers are capable of self helaing through their classes inate abilites - fighters are not. rangers are capable of providing genuinely useful buffs for the party - fighters cannot.

The only problem with the ranger class is peoples perception of it, be that 'dps is god must have max dps' or the pew pew barny magrew types that dont know when to put the bow down.

ranger is a support class, a scout, a skirmisher, a stealthy lightly armoured warrior with a bit of spell casting thrown in for good measure - if you want to tear things appart in mele play a barb - or at least look to multiclass.

And the more dps the the less played classes have the more hp the mobs get and the more dps the true mele classes need and its just a vicious circle so as I said. please stop.

[die]

please please stop.

Rangers are not supposed to be primary dps or tanks, they never were.

Rangers are light fighters and skirmishers and occupy a role somewhere between support (through magic and ranged combat) and scout/scirmisher.

The only love rangers need in my opinion is a tuffness line as men of the woods and country would be healthy and hardy. Also a capstone that is non archery - the suggested favoured enemy one is nice.

Comparing a ranger to a 2WF kensai.
for aproximately 25% less DPS against non favoured enemies and a marginal 5 to 10% against favoured enemies rangers get a heck of a lot.
1. decent use with a bow which is a situationaly great weapon - in my experience the 'situation' usualy lasts less than the manyshot timer.
2. The ability to buff an entire party with resists, fom, barkskin(unique to ranger curently) and camo for any one who's interested in stealth - not to mention mass longstrider which can save a slot for a whole group. A well built ranger does infact have the mana to handle all these buffs for a party of 6 and some can handle raids. The mana this saves is very useful to the arcanes and clerics.
3. 4 more skill points a lvl than a fighter and a much nicer selection of skills.

Rangers are stealth capable - fighters are not, rangers are capable of self helaing through their classes inate abilites - fighters are not. rangers are capable of providing genuinely useful buffs for the party - fighters cannot.

The only problem with the ranger class is peoples perception of it, be that 'dps is god must have max dps' or the pew pew barny magrew types that dont know when to put the bow down.

ranger is a support class, a scout, a skirmisher, a stealthy lightly armoured warrior with a bit of spell casting thrown in for good measure - if you want to tear things appart in mele play a barb - or at least look to multiclass.

And the more dps the the less played classes have the more hp the mobs get and the more dps the true mele classes need and its just a vicious circle so as I said. please stop.

What he said 0.O p.s i love my ranger

[Tom318]

Which is why they tend to have bad rep. Ranger is a sort of either you get it (in which case you're topping the kill lists) or you don't (in which case you are dying a lot.) Some people playing rangers are downright weird, I've seen some people say they don't use spells..

[sephiroth1084]

Sephiroth's suggestion is a good example of a change that will benefit all rangers without suggesting one build or playstyle over the other.

They could also revert Ram's Might to the way it used to be, granting more damage as your ranger levels increased. This is an easy change that will help all rangers.

I don't think rangers need a real boost to their damage vs. FEs. They have other benefits to make up for still being slightly behind even in their ideal situations from that perspective, which is why I didn't suggest the Ram's change.

Although this would take a lot of time/effort and really isn't practical, I'd love to see something done with ranger defining abilities that don't quite matter in DDO's system. What if rangers were compensated for the fact that animal summoning is fairly useless in DDO despite being a defining ability? Maybe a new line of ranger pets could act as buffers/debuffers for the group rather than being a normal combat NPC. For example, give rangers the ability to summon a pet that applies a sunder effect, gives a similar benefit to Jade Strike's debuff, or has a high chance to stun or trip that actually has a useful DC in later content. Maybe they could also grant small bonuses to the party while active, like +1 spell DC, +2 damage per swing or +5% maximum hit points.

This would be something that all rangers could benefit from, but of course it would be a fairly large overhaul.

Or even just give Ranger's summons a really big boost in power. Give their summons a big bonus to their stats so that they're really worth using. I've heard some good things about the Pale Master skeletal summons, though I haven't bothered with any after the first set, and even those I wasn't totally impressed with (though they were kind of useful while leveling). Perhaps Ranger summons could be buffed to be in that range of usefulness? Or better perhaps, since they have more limited SP and fewer ways to further buff their pets.

That could make up for their not getting animal companions, could make them more interesting (especially if the devs finally get around to adjusting AI so that pets don't bug out some fights/quests) and would be a benefit applied to all rangers.

please please stop.

Rangers are not supposed to be primary dps or tanks, they never were.

Rangers are light fighters and skirmishers and occupy a role somewhere between support (through magic and ranged combat) and scout/scirmisher.

The only love rangers need in my opinion is a tuffness line as men of the woods and country would be healthy and hardy. Also a capstone that is non archery - the suggested favoured enemy one is nice.

Comparing a ranger to a 2WF kensai.
for aproximately 25% less DPS against non favoured enemies and a marginal 5 to 10% against favoured enemies rangers get a heck of a lot.
1. decent use with a bow which is a situationaly great weapon - in my experience the 'situation' usualy lasts less than the manyshot timer.
2. The ability to buff an entire party with resists, fom, barkskin(unique to ranger curently) and camo for any one who's interested in stealth - not to mention mass longstrider which can save a slot for a whole group. A well built ranger does infact have the mana to handle all these buffs for a party of 6 and some can handle raids. The mana this saves is very useful to the arcanes and clerics.
3. 4 more skill points a lvl than a fighter and a much nicer selection of skills.

Rangers are stealth capable - fighters are not, rangers are capable of self helaing through their classes inate abilites - fighters are not. rangers are capable of providing genuinely useful buffs for the party - fighters cannot.

The only problem with the ranger class is peoples perception of it, be that 'dps is god must have max dps' or the pew pew barny magrew types that dont know when to put the bow down.

ranger is a support class, a scout, a skirmisher, a stealthy lightly armoured warrior with a bit of spell casting thrown in for good measure - if you want to tear things appart in mele play a barb - or at least look to multiclass.

And the more dps the the less played classes have the more hp the mobs get and the more dps the true mele classes need and its just a vicious circle so as I said. please stop.

While I agree with all of this in theory, the problem remains that DDO strongly de-emphasizes many of the ranger's strengths, particularly later in the game, but not exclusively.

Stealth is almost only useful when soloing.

Most of the ranger's class skills never come into play, or aren't useful.

Ranger self-healing is rather poor unless you spend feats on it, and rangers are incredibly feat starved, despite their numerous bonus feats, due to their PrEs have a lot of prerequisites (Tempest requires you to spend 4 of your 7 feats, with 2 more being almost necessary; AA requires you to spend 3 of your 7 feats, with 1 more being almost necessary and with a strong impulse to spending at least a couple more on melee). Also, even with a feat or two for healing, it still comes up rather short for anything more than emergency heals without some fairly specialized equipment--you aren't going to be the healer for your party, and you probably can't support yourself through a quest on just your healing alone.

Many of the ranger's buffs can be acquired from other classes, items or aren't generally necessary. This is not a huge knock against them, but I don't know how many people choose to play a ranger because of their access to FoM and Barkskin.

Ultimately, DDO is increasingly focused on DPS and HP, both of which the ranger comes up short on. Now, the DPS issue against a FE isn't a really big deal, and that's where I think the other features of the ranger come into play for evening the playing field. It's against non-favored enemies that rangers really suffer.

Almost any other melee-capable character would be better to take along for something like VoN 3, since it's unlikely a ranger will have FE: Elf, and only semi-likely they'll have FE: Construct. VoN 6? What rangers are taking FE: Dragon? And they aren't going to get any bonuses vs. the djinn on the bases, and have no to-hit bonuses to aid them in hitting the rather high AC on these enemies. Chains of Flame? Who's taking FE: Gnoll?

Another option, from giving rangers more FEs, would be to do so by proxy, folding several related favored enemies together. Now, we wouldn't want too many condensed, since part of the balance to their bonus is in their occasionally having to fight non-FEs, and there should still be a real choice, but right now the number of FEs is problematic. This isn't quite as big a deal in PnP because you usually have a DM that will likely cater adventures to your strengths, at least a little bit. For example, you're unlikely to have a DM that throws 3 dragons at you, ever, after you've taken FE: Dragon. I know that I'd probably be sure to include more half-dragons, dragonkin, Children of Bahamut, Spellscales, Dragonwrought Kobolds, etc... Not so for DDO.