Add Heal Threat

[weyoun]

Say wouldn't heal threat be nice? At least with average intelligence mobs. With quickened mass heal completely OP a little heal threat could even things out? Oh and put a 2 min CD on mana pots too.

Thanks!

[grodon9999]

Though I'm not a big fan of heal-threat (my poor little halfling Cleric . . .) I LOVE the idea of an SP-pot cool-down. Sure it'd lead to more wipes, but if it does lead to a wipe you SHOULD have failed. Drinking your way through a quest shouldn't be a viable strategy.

[Nospheratus]

/signed for the pot cooldown


Realistically though, it won't happen because those are sold in the store!..

[weyoun]

Whether you're a fan of heal threat or not, its one of the things that makes the DDO AI flat. I mean, many of the monsters are supposed to be these uber war generals and yet they aren't smart enough to attack the healer? Doesn't really make a lot of sense does it?

[grodon9999]

Whether you're a fan of heal threat or not, its one of the things that makes the DDO AI flat. I mean, many of the monsters are supposed to be these uber war generals and yet they aren't smart enough to attack the healer? Doesn't really make a lot of sense does it?

Not at all, but the encounters as they are now are balanced around NOT having healing generating any threat. A change this big would require much greater changes than just that.

Let me rephrase . . . I'm against heal-threat in a vacuum. If encounters were re-tooled and this was a part of a much larger holistic change than I'd be fine with it.

[Samadhi]

Not at all, but the encounters as they are now are balanced around NOT having healing generating any threat. A change this big would require much greater changes than just that.

Let me rephrase . . . I'm against heal-threat in a vacuum. If encounters were re-tooled and this was a part of a much larger holistic change than I'd be fine with it.

Sensible. A flat change would be too drastic; or minimal enough to not even be worth bothering with.

[weyoun]

Not at all, but the encounters as they are now are balanced around NOT having healing generating any threat. A change this big would require much greater changes than just that.

Let me rephrase . . . I'm against heal-threat in a vacuum. If encounters were re-tooled and this was a part of a much larger holistic change than I'd be fine with it.

That's what I'm advocating. The complete lack of heal threat is silly, to put it lightly.

[Illiain]

In general, I think this would be a horrible idea. The NPCs have odd movement patterns that the players can't prevent. They slide down the hall after getting tripped, they run around when blinded and stunned/danced/etc, they can sidestep around you after taking a full TWF flurry for 75% of their total hps in damage. Basically, if they want to get around you, they will get around you before your computer can react.

It would make preventing them from going after the healer almost impossible after their first mass cure/heal, not to mention overheals. How would that be dealt with? Would it tally damage healed or total heal? Hitting the human monk with past life paladin and critting for 1500-2k would be a huge about of hate, when they were probably only down 200-300hps. This leads to healers being stingy with their less efficient single target heals and a lot more party deaths.

Now personally, I would enjoy it. I'm currently reequiping my old revamped battlecleric into an intimicleric. Raid heals and tanking in a single party slot. But not everyone has a build that can deal with that kind of abuse and you'd have weenie healbots dead all over the place.

[grodon9999]

Now personally, I would enjoy it. I'm currently reequiping my old revamped battlecleric into an intimicleric. Raid heals and tanking in a single party slot. But not everyone has a build that can deal with that kind of abuse and you'd have weenie healbots dead all over the place.

LOL, that's AWESOME. We have a couple intimitank-FvS on Ghallanda who'd LOVE this change.

[Jamma]

Whether you're a fan of heal threat or not, its one of the things that makes the DDO AI flat. I mean, many of the monsters are supposed to be these uber war generals and yet they aren't smart enough to attack the healer? Doesn't really make a lot of sense does it?

I've been in many parties where the melees don't take out the healers, because they're in the back and not noticed, or the melees just figure they'll get to them eventually. Hmm, sounds like Turbine modeled the monster AI after player AI.

Seriously, if you want to talk 'smart' thing for the monsters to do, eliminate all hate mechanics. Just give them a pecking order:

1) attack all healers till healers are dead
2) attack all casters till casters are dead
3) mop up incidental melees, preferably before your break enchantment/ mass hold persons wears off on them.

[grodon9999]

I've been in many parties where the melees don't take out the healers, because they're in the back and not noticed, or the melees just figure they'll get to them eventually. Hmm, sounds like Turbine modeled the monster AI after player AI.

Seriously, if you want to talk 'smart' thing for the monsters to do, eliminate all hate mechanics. Just give them a pecking order:

1) attack all healers till healers are dead
2) attack all casters till casters are dead
3) mop up incidental melees, preferably before your break enchantment/ mass hold persons wears off on them.

Again, we could exploit the hell of of this. If we know the pecking order you can shield-wall around it and beat the mobs down without taking any damage. it'd be worse (easier) than we have now. I'm not even gonna mention what you could do with BB-kiting if the divines have auto-agro.

[Missing_Minds]

Whether you're a fan of heal threat or not, its one of the things that makes the DDO AI flat. I mean, many of the monsters are supposed to be these uber war generals and yet they aren't smart enough to attack the healer? Doesn't really make a lot of sense does it?

Play a bard. Tell me you aren't picked out first. *grumbles* 2 rooms back/hidden and I'm still targeted first!

[weyoun]

Play a bard. Tell me you aren't picked out first. *grumbles* 2 rooms back/hidden and I'm still targeted first!

My toons are public, I have 3 bards.

[Illiain]

Play a bard. Tell me you aren't picked out first. *grumbles* 2 rooms back/hidden and I'm still targeted first!

I have a WC bard with ranger splash TWF khopesh. They walk around me to get to the casters and I use intim. They must pick the person with the lowest kills.

As for the AI, if it was fixed, we'd never be able to intim/hate tank. Why would anything target the best defended, or the guy with the biggest axe, instead of hitting the squishy casters and healers. Every raid/epic raid in the game would start with the healers being one shotted with disints/meteor swarms.

Once support is dead, melee is just a sack of declining hps. Some just do it faster than others.

Some things, which being more realistic, would make the game unplayable if implemented.

[Bobthesponge]

Drinking your way through a quest shouldn't be a viable strategy.

Don't be silly. I drink my way through every quest and it works great until I pass out.

[stoolcannon]

Though I'm not a big fan of heal-threat (my poor little halfling Cleric . . .) I LOVE the idea of an SP-pot cool-down. Sure it'd lead to more wipes, but if it does lead to a wipe you SHOULD have failed. Drinking your way through a quest shouldn't be a viable strategy.

I think this would be reasonable actually. Much harder but very reasonable.

[Ethiel]

unless they can apply the threat equally to Reconstruct, WF become godkings again.

[weyoun]

unless they can apply the threat equally to Reconstruct, WF become godkings again.

I didn't consider that. But it should work the same way - it should be an evaluation that the monster does when he detects the PC's HP increase. The greater the increase, the greater the heal threat. So healing / reconing someone from incapped to full health should be a huge heal threat. Again mass heals should = mass agro.

[BananaHat]

I welcome heal threat with my WF FvS. I can often handle incoming damage better than other party members due to my high DR, high HP, guards, and the fact that I am the closest one to my own healing and I can't get blocked by an object from myself.

[sephiroth1084]

This is definitely a reasonable solution to the problem we have currently, where healing is much too powerful and aggro management of major foes is usually too straightforward.

Eladrin, since you've poked your head in here, could you also consider giving major monsters (ie. raid bosses) some new attacks that they can use to get out of the beat-on-the-boss huddle? Arretrikos in Shroud 5 has gotten the ability to teleport members or himself on occasion, and Suulomaedes teleports around in VoD, but Harry doesn't do much of anything in Shroud 4, barely does enough in Shroud 5, and Lailat, Horoth, ToD-Sulu and Nythirios don't do much of anything either.

The Judge's wingbeat serves this purporse, but due to the degree of its effect and design of the room, that attack is actually more dangerous on elite than almost anything else in the raid. It is also very annoying. And if his wings are so powerful, why isn't he flying? Kind of hoping that since you've discovered the tech to make real flying monsters (the Abishai in Chrono), maybe we'll see more encounters with truer 3D combat.