So many lfms for healers...improve divine crowd control, offensive casting.

[sweez]

I've successfully piked a bunch of epic content on my evoker FvS, please let me fulfill my destiny and pike it all. Gotta pike it all.

My only epic capable toon is an assassin, but when I play epics I know that my PRIMARY function as a rogue (even one that's not a mechanic) is to get those epic traps, and I have geared my toon accordingly... You'd better believe that if I get accepted into a group and say "I can't do epic traps" I'd be getting Das Boot!

Huh? Most groups I've been in just jump over the traps

[taurean430]

I didnt saye that. I said that in epic quests classes are forced to do what is their main role. Yes I know what ddo say about cleric - divine avenger blablabla but cleric (or fvs) is the best class for healing (mby for harm spells too, but they are not worth imo), so they are forced to heal. but pple are angry that they are forced just to heal. yes you can dps od cc between healing but you will alway be less usefull then an arcane or fighter.

I am asking again: what type of crowd control or what dps would be enough to satisfy you as a cleric? but remember that your dps or cc shouldnt be better or even equal as arcane cc or fighter (barbar, ranger etc) dps - otherwise such class would become obsolete.

And I am full aware of the fact that well played bard in good group can replace cleric in epic, but such cases are rly rare and you can see them in achievements threads

This thread is not about the ongoing angst some players who only play melee classes have. This thread is about increasing options regarding bringing a divine caster into epics. Perhaps you should start yet another, 'why don't hjealers just hjeal me all the time and nothing else thread. I'm sure you will find the answers you seek there...

[krtkoo]

This thread is not about the ongoing angst some players who only play melee classes have. This thread is about increasing options regarding bringing a divine caster into epics. Perhaps you should start yet another, 'why don't hjealers just hjeal me all the time and nothing else thread. I'm sure you will find the answers you seek there...

dont worry about me, cause my main is a cleric - and I dind write anything like that. I just dont get it why pple want to outdps fighter classes in combat or be have better cc as arcane. I have never said you as a cleric shouldnt do some dps to mobs, but what dps would be enough to satisfy you?
pls dont make me laugh, everyone would like to have a char who would excel in every possible situation, but it is not possible. if clerics dps would be at the same lvl (or just a little bit lower) as other dps class, why should pple play that other class?

[voodoogroves]

dont worry about me, cause my main is a cleric - and I dind write anything like that. I just dont get it why pple want to outdps fighter classes in combat or be have better cc as arcane. I have never said you as a cleric shouldnt do some dps to mobs, but what dps would be enough to satisfy you?
pls dont make me laugh, everyone would like to have a char who would excel in every possible situation, but it is not possible. if clerics dps would be at the same lvl (or just a little bit lower) as other dps class, why should pple play that other class?

A Bard can provide all necessary healing for many epics, better buffs and better personal DPS. The issue is not whether or not a divine can or should out-DPS a melee. It's about what else can they bring into most epics.

[taurean430]

dont worry about me, cause my main is a cleric - and I dind write anything like that. I just dont get it why pple want to outdps fighter classes in combat or be have better cc as arcane. I have never said you as a cleric shouldnt do some dps to mobs, but what dps would be enough to satisfy you?
pls dont make me laugh, everyone would like to have a char who would excel in every possible situation, but it is not possible. if clerics dps would be at the same lvl (or just a little bit lower) as other dps class, why should pple play that other class?

Keep in mind that the PrE line for the FvS class has yet to be released. How that PrE will work will have a definite impact on build choices.

As the majority of my toons have healing ability, it's necessary to do some exploring into what divine casters are actually capable of. Oftentimes in threads of this type, the discussion regarding expanding the divine spell options becomes derailed by pointless dps comparisons. It's not necessary to compare the two in a thread discussing poor spell options for divine casters at current endgame.

[krtkoo]

A Bard can provide all necessary healing for many epics, better buffs and better personal DPS. The issue is not whether or not a divine can or should out-DPS a melee. It's about what else can they bring into most epics.

Yes, I know - I have already said it in one of my previous posts. The question here is, if cleric would have more options like better cc or better dps other classes would need boost their power too. I am well aware what OP meant in his post, but I dont think boostin cleric or fvs in making them better in dps or cc or whatever is a simple thing. and noone in this thread made any suggestions how to do it.

We can argue that you can build amazing combat solomasta cleric - at end of the day party would ask from you to heal them. that is the fact. If they wanted from you to provide good dps they wouldnt call for a cleric - and I think it is good so.

p.s. I edited this post cause I am not sure how should I write my opinion in english

[grodon9999]

The OP's point hammers on what's wrong with epics. It's a big issue with the end-game of DDO in that builds that are viable, if not awesome, in level 1-19 content are relegated to simple defined-rolls in epics. Divine offensive casting just isn't worth the SP in epics.

We have a TON of variety in DDO, then we get to epics and tons of the wonderful options we have for toons just aren't viable anymore. This is bad for the game and should be examined by the devs.

[voodoogroves]

The OP's point hammers on what's wrong with epics. It's a big issue with the end-game of DDO in that builds that are viable, if not awesome, in level 1-19 content are relegated to simple defined-rolls in epics. Divine offensive casting just isn't worth the SP in epics.

We have a TON of variety in DDO, then we get to epics and tons of the wonderful options we have for toons just aren't viable anymore. This is bad for the game and should be examined by the devs.

You say this a lot. Keep saying it. I'll subscribe to the newsletter.

I'm staring at my TR plan for my clonk and having a hard time NOT going with heavy picks because I still want him to be a cleric. If I don't get one I like, he'll be a Spellsinger.

[Four20]

Hi, I dont see a problem here at all. Imo epics are designed that all classes are going back to their main roles – fighters (dps or tanks) barbarians (dps), rogues (traps + dps), divine (healing) etc etc. I agree that in epics you just need good dps and good arcane for cc, and some healing for final boss. But you need this only if you have very good equipped toon, know the quest and you have more than average player skills. When you are running epics with pple who match all those criteria, then yes playing a healer can be boring in such group.

But many many ppl just need healers in epics, and when I remember my first epics: we were happy when we had a tank in our group – it was a lot easier and cheaper for resources. Well now I can laugh at posts like someone post here in this forum, that he used 20 major pots for healing during boss fight in epic into the deep, but it wasnt always so.

And mby if you are not satisfied with a clerics / fvs role in epics – dont play that class in epic quests. What would you expect to do there? Do you want to do cc like arcane or beat mobs like fighter? Sry but this is not primary role for a cleric or fvs. You shouldnt have better dps as fighter or other dps class and you shouldnt have better cc than arcanes. If you as a cleric or fvs will be better in dps or cc you would make other class obsolete. If you think your role as a healer is obsolete in epic, than there are 3 possibilities:
1. epics should be harder so real healing and divine buffing is necessary (dont think this will happen, cause many pple wouldnt be able run them)
2. start pugging with less experienced players who need more healing
3. dont play cleric / fvs in epic.

watch out. i used the term 'healer' in my post. and now i need to learn how to play the game. . .as well as getting neg rep by 4 people lol

[wax_on_wax_off]

groups have roles. tank, dps, HEALER, caster, etc.

you may 'say' you're doing dps with your HEALER because you swing your weapon between heals, and that's cute and all, but the real dps is going to be coming from the melee in the group.

i won't deny the benefit of casters and healers swinging the dreamspitter between heals and mass holds. and i thank you for tickling them until i get there

You're confusing class roles with classes. Maybe you are confused and regressing to your WoW days?

I'll help you. In DDO; your class icon does not necessarily define what you do.

I'll give you some examples.

Bard icon can mean healer, persistent DPS, CC, intimitank or hate tank!
Wizard icon can mean burst DPS, CC, intimitank or more!
Cleric icon can mean persistent DPS, CC, healer, hate tank or intimitank!

And it doesn't stop here! You know, with intelligent building it is possible in DDO for just about any class to fulfill just about any roll. The possibilities are endless. In fact, that is what many people like about this game. Maybe you would like WoW better?

[Four20]

I love how everyone on this forum knows so much about me.

First I'm a poor player and now I used to play WoW, and should go back because I would like it better.

Wax, am I regressing back to my WoW days, or would I like WoW better than DDO(insinuating that I have yet to play WoW)? I mean if I used to play WoW, then I would know if I like it better or not. Right?

This forum is so full of constructive criticism from helpful and informative people. . .

[wax_on_wax_off]

I love how everyone on this forum knows so much about me.

First I'm a poor player and now I used to play WoW, and should go back because I would like it better.

Wax, am I regressing back to my WoW days, or would I like WoW better than DDO(insinuating that I have yet to play WoW)? I mean if I used to play WoW, then I would know if I like it better or not. Right?

This forum is so full of constructive criticism from helpful and informative people. . .

I must admit that I pay so little attention to the "healers should heal" dribble that there maybe be some inconsistencies with my response, however, observing that you may enjoy one game more than the other is not mutually exclusive with having played the either game in the past.

I don't have enough rep to give neg reps but maybe you can take something away from this? This game isn't WoW, rolls are not restricted by icons. I hope you can learn the game well enough in the future to realise that. I'd hate to see you progress from newb to noob rather than newb to the better alternative, assuming the former has not already occurred.

[Udalric]

/Signed

Those spells could be helpful - Earthquake, Storm of Vengance , Blasphemy , Righteus Might

[Four20]

I must admit that I pay so little attention to the "healers should heal" dribble that there maybe be some inconsistencies with my response, however, observing that you may enjoy one game more than the other is not mutually exclusive with having played the either game in the past.

I don't have enough rep to give neg reps but maybe you can take something away from this? This game isn't WoW, rolls are not restricted by icons. I hope you can learn the game well enough in the future to realise that. I'd hate to see you progress from newb to noob rather than newb to the better alternative, assuming the former has not already occurred.

as long as i dont progress into a person that has 2 different definitions for 'newb' and 'noob' XD

[Terebinthia]

/signed

Yeah, I need something for my Evoker to do besides pike and hit the "Heal" key once in a while in epics.

Swinging a woo-woo stick doesn't count.

Yup, this is how I feel, too. Pike, hit Silver Flame capstone, swing woo stick, heal. Rinse, repeat.

It's just really really boring and why I pretty much ignore epic quests. I may run my cleric to get my free TR for the toon I'm going to Completionist on, but that's really the only reason for me. That and getting lucky on ESoS bits for the Completionist.

Still not really started on epic raids. Guess my jury is out there.

[Lorz]

why should a 'healer role' be able to do decent dps, crowd control, or anything(besides healing) in, and the keyword here is, epics

I see we have some new WoW players here by this ridiculous statement here.

And the key word here.....is get a clue.

[Lorz]

as long as i dont progress into a person that has 2 different definitions for 'newb' and 'noob' XD

definetly the later you are.

[Emili]

To the OP my cleric... she is old and really spell focus'd but I still beat on mob and toss actual damage spells and cc around as I'm beating on mob unless I have to actually babysit someone holding agro of the epic boss... go figure. Remember even with a lousy to-hit ... autocrit mob are easy to hit.

Personally I prefer a Warchanter that melees and a Str-based divine that melees to a Spellsinger that has a Heal scroll in their hand in every fight and a traditional melee class. More DPS and more burst healing for when mobs get loose from crowd control.

That said, I totally agree that Wisdom-based divines need a real boost. Cometfall and Greater Command have their place as useful tools, but are just nothing like the power of Mass Hold Monster, Mass Hold Person, Mass Suggestion, Discoball, 1SP Hypnotism, 3SP Resistable Dance and the rest of the arcane crowd control suite.

Actually my favorite character to play in epics is my SS in a good group, compared to my melee, my chanter, my arcane or my divines... in a bad group though it turns into a nightmare trying to maintain status quo and fill roles.

Do you know why? It's because an SS can run into all roles... compared to my Chanter - my SS melee's CC's and heals on top that she's constantly buffing everyone - she is by far the most active character in any given epic quest ... never just standing around, preps everyone for the next fight, heals, cc's, rebuffs and melees through-out the fight then does it all over again ... SS characters never stop doing something all quest long.

[walthorxx]

Why not use these 2 spells, that have no saving throws.
1- MAX/EMP Divine Punishment?
2- Searing Light:

Since CC and DPS is not expected from Healers, why not contribute in DPS this way?

I'm asking a question, not making an affirmation, i haven't played any epics yet...so i just want to know what do you think guys?

[Doxmaster]

Why not use these 2 spells, that have no saving throws.
1- MAX/EMP Divine Punishment?
2- Searing Light:

Since CC and DPS is not expected from Healers, why not contribute in DPS this way?

I'm asking a question, not making an affirmation, i haven't played any epics yet...so i just want to know what do you think guys?

Arise, dead thread. ARISE!
One year, two months on one of your first 5 posts. Pretty boss necro there.