Highest Damage with a Bow

[sephiroth1084]

I believe the highest DPS purely Bow build available today (mainly cos run out of feats to do anything else) would be the 18 Barb FB3/1Ftr/Wiz or even Bard. Check out posts from Soulstabber with sreenshots of 1000 dam from a single arrow.

Dont build an archer without all the bow feats especially Imp Precise Shot

And that's really the biggest problem with the 18 barb versions: no IPS. The x6 crits are sexy, but they aren't coming with any more frequency in epics since they are still only on a 19-20, and IPS will end up being much higher DPS in many cases (not vs. bosses though).

[Oinkmoobark]

My Pure lvl 20 AA hits around 47-50 on FE and around 40 on non. With the 500 slaying and lightning greensteel it would look like this 160-10-10-10-500-50 (Crit with wind bracers its sonic damage thats the 50) lightning procs around 580-640.

i hit aorund 4-6 of those crits on many shot, along with 1-3 lightning strikes. some times i proc a crit and a strike so its like: 160-10-600-10-10-500-50. around 1300 damage, all total in 1 many shot you should do about 7k or so damge.

[cpito]

A high DPS Archer? Before you get much further, please... for the love of all that's holy in gaming... read this:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=263907

specifically post 4 about half-way down where it adresses kiting.

Muchas Gracias

Good luck and enjoy, a well played archer is a lot of fun!

[krackythehoodedone]

Ferr i think you'll find the 18/1/1 build includes all the bow feats..So has Imp Precise shot. Wouldnt be a whole lotta use without it. With Epic Thornlord would be 19-20 X6, 17-18 X4 with sustainable 60+ STR. I think the guys on Cannith. I will ask him for his build and post it if he sais its ok.

Yes Cpito ive read it. However it is written with AA rangers in mind. Their are a couple of speciality Archer builds that use Barbarian as the main class. They can do really obscene bow DPS (so about average compared to a weapon). Because these characters are so limited on feats and so specialised they are pretty hopeless at picking up anything other than a bow.

So put your bow away and pull out a weapon. Its good advice. However their are a few toons on each server that are better off keeping the bow firmly in hand. Toons that are putting together ranged DPS far in excess of anything you are percieving possible.

Most of these Toons are insanely well equipped. Epic Mari/Epic Thornlord/Litany/Quiver of Alacrity(several)/ Full TOD sets/Epic claw set. or Epic charged,windhowler combo/A shed load of GS items and Bows..you get the picture

So honestly Cpito you dont have to pray for the poor deluded archer and neither does Darkstar have to claim that all purely ranged toons are a waste of space. Maybe, just maybe we know something you dont?

[Thrudh]

Ferr i think you'll find the 18/1/1 build includes all the bow feats..

Ouch that's tight...

8 feats...

Weapon focus: Ranged (pre-req for AA)
Point Blank Shot (pre-req for AA)
Power Attack (pre-req for Bow Strength)
Bow Strength
Rapid Shot (pre-req for Manyshot)
Manyshot
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot

Because these characters are so limited on feats and so specialised they are pretty hopeless at picking up anything other than a bow.

I'll say... And getting a 19 Dex for IPS ain't cheap either... Although at least they have Power Attack...

[cpito]

So honestly Cpito you dont have to pray for the poor deluded archer and neither does Darkstar have to claim that all purely ranged toons are a waste of space. Maybe, just maybe we know something you dont?

Who says I was praying for the poor deluded archer? I have a long history playing ranged toons. I love them to death. Mostly I pray for crappy ranged toons who don't know how to kite. I don't care how hard you hit, if you lead the mobs on a merry chase and you're not solo, you are likely to **** off party members and feed into all the archer hate. Fine, don't pull out a weapon but don't run away either.

[rangerprototype]

I have spent some time building what I considered a completely glass cannon
I tooled around with toon planner for awhile trying to build the highest possible DPS on a ranged character.

this is the link to my thread. All advice and considerations welcome

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...25#post3566625

check it out, it doesnt have the level of perfection some other ranged builds have, but its a work in progress
might fit for what your looking for

The goods:
it combines wiz and rogue for extra dps(nice boost with Sneak Attack), some basic spells if desired, and has good syngery by using intelligence for both.
Uses all possible ranged dmg boosts--combines kensei with elven racial bonuses..
allows for maxed UMD and some trap utility as desired..
more HP than any other ranger ive ever built...

[Therigar]

You don't know this game as well as you think you do.

Let's see how much I know about the game.

I say that you should only take 1 level of ranger on an arcane archer build. This is in contrast to those who say to take 6 levels of ranger.

Taking 6 levels of ranger gives a character 1 additional favored enemy and saves 1 feat choice by granting an additional key feat to the build for free. For the record, these are the feats that I think are key to an arcane archer:

1. Point blank shot (prereq).
2. Weapon focus: ranged weapons (prereq)
3. Rapid shot
4. Manyshot
5. Precise shot
6. Improved precise shot
7. Bow strength
8. Improved critical: ranged
9. Power attack
10. TWF
11. ITWF
12. GTWF
13. Toughness

As any reader will recognize, this list can easily be acquired by either a fighter 13/ranger 6/caster 1 or a fighter 18/ranger 1/caster 1 build. So, the reason for choosing a ranger 6 build instead of a ranger 1 build doesn't have a lot to do with the number of feats being used.

Instead, the decision to go ranger 6 is the belief that the spell Ram's Might gives more damage than the increased threat range of the longbow that comes from fighter 18 and the Kensai III enhancements.

Ram's Might gives a +2 STR bonus and a +2 damage bonus. This effectively provides a +3 damage bonus to each hit.

Fighter 16 opens Longbow Specialization II for a +1 damage bonus. Fighter 18 opens Kensai III which in turn opens Longbow Mastery III giving a +1 stackable threat range.

The debate over which is better comes down to this, very simple, difference in the builds.

Warning, number crunch time. If you don't want to review the math but only want the bottom line skip down to the text in orange.

My bow of choice is greensteel radiance with good burst. I choose this because it does two things. First, with silver arrows it is a DR beater for bosses like Harry. Second, it does its bonus damage when it achieves criticals.

Now, you may feel that this is unfair but the entire goal state is to achieve the highest possible damage results on an arcane archer. If it were not then choosing ranger 6 for a 2 point per hit damage advantage would be pointless.

My arcane archer feat choices give us the 19-20 threat range for the longbow. Bow strength adds STR damage to every shot. Top sustained fighter STR has been estimated at ~60. Since that gives an easy to use number it is what I'll use.

Ranger 6 build gets another 2 STR from Ram's Might as has been discussed and an extra +2 to damage. Various other enhancements also give bonuses to damage. Longbow Specialization I gives +1, elf gives +2 and Kensai II gives +2 with another +4 on critical hits.

Ranger 1 build gets no added STR but gets and extra +1 to damage from Longbow Specialization II. It likewise gets Longbow Specialization I for +1, elf for +2 and Kensai II for +2 with that other +4 on critical hits. Kensai Weapon Mastery III gives a stacking +1 threat range.

I'm ready for the math.

R6/F13/c1:

Normal hit -- 1d10 (base) + 26 (STR) + 7 (misc) + 1d6 (good); average damage is 42.
Critical hit -- 3(1d10 (base) + 26 (STR) + 7 (misc) + 4 (on crits)) + 1d6 (good) + 4d6 (good burst) + 4d6 (light); average damage is 159.

My feat list includes IC: ranged so using the 2+ hit methodology we get 17 hits for 42 each and 2 for 159 each in any group of 20 shots. Total damage is 1032.

R1/F18/c1:

Normal hit -- 1d10 (base) + 25 (STR) + 6 (misc) + 1d6 (good); average damage is 40.
Critical hit -- 3(1d10 (base) + 25 (STR) + 6 (misc) + 4 (on crits)) + 1d6 (good) + 4d6 (good burst) + 4d6 (light); average damage is 153.

Again, my feat list includes IC: ranged and KWM III gives a stacking +1 threat range. Using the same 2+ hit methodology we get 16 hits for 40 points each and 3 for 153. Total damage is 1099.

Bottom line is this: taking ranger 6 costs you 67 points of damage in 20 shots, an average of over 3 points per hit. The difference grows larger if you have added crit damage from items like Bloodstone.

So, I reiterate, anyone taking more than 1 level of ranger on an arcane archer build doesn't know what they are doing.

[Thrudh]

Let's see how much I know about the game.

I say that you should only take 1 level of ranger on an arcane archer build. This is in contrast to those who say to take 6 levels of ranger.

Taking 6 levels of ranger gives a character 1 additional favored enemy and saves 1 feat choice by granting an additional key feat to the build for free. For the record, these are the feats that I think are key to an arcane archer:

1. Point blank shot (prereq).
2. Weapon focus: ranged weapons (prereq)
3. Rapid shot
4. Manyshot
5. Precise shot
6. Improved precise shot
7. Bow strength
8. Improved critical: ranged
9. Power attack
10. TWF
11. ITWF
12. GTWF
13. Toughness

As any reader will recognize, this list can easily be acquired by either a fighter 13/ranger 6/caster 1 or a fighter 18/ranger 1/caster 1 build. So, the reason for choosing a ranger 6 build instead of a ranger 1 build doesn't have a lot to do with the number of feats being used.

6 levels of ranger instead of 1 level of ranger gets you Rapid Shot, TWF, ITWF, and Manyshot for free... 18 levels of fighter instead of 13 levels of fighter gets you 3 feats...

Ranger levels nets you 1 extra feat. (plus Diehard, but we won't count that)

Bunch of math.... blah blah blah (actually thank you for breaking it down)

Bottom line is this: taking ranger 6 costs you 67 points of damage in 20 shots, an average of over 3 points per hit. The difference grows larger if you have added crit damage from items like Bloodstone.

3 points per hit is a rounding error... but if you're focusing on purely DPS, you left out some stuff...

Ranger 6 gets 2 favored enemies.. Instead of +3 damage to one favored enemy, ranger 6 gets +6 damage to two favored enemies, so equal to the 18 fighter build against one monster type, and better than it against a second type...

Still minor, but evil outsider and giant (or undead) cover a LOT of monsters and raid bosses in this game.

But here's the biggest thing you left out... 6 levels of ranger means you don't have to take a caster level to get AA (Mental Toughness of course eats up a feat, but you do have an extra one).

Being able to skip the caster level means you can take two levels of rogue or two levels of monk... This means evasion, DPS and UMD (rogue) or two extra feats (monk)...

The debate over which is better comes down to this, very simple, difference in the builds.

Exactly...

So, I reiterate, anyone taking more than 1 level of ranger on an arcane archer build doesn't know what they are doing.

I'm confused how you can say this after the more accurate quote above it.

If your 18/1/1 build did 50% more DPS than an AA build with 6 levels of ranger, you MIGHT be justified with your blanket statement. But the absolute statement you make is way off-base...

Your build is not so superior that anyone who builds differently is an idiot (i.e. doesn't know what they are doing)

Any reasonable person might consider having evasion, UMD, and sneak attack damage equal or even preferable to your build...

I'm not saying that your build is worse... I'm saying that 6 levels of ranger offers some things that 18 fighter build does not.

AND BOTH ARE GOOD.

[Thrudh]

So, I reiterate, anyone taking more than 1 level of ranger on an arcane archer build doesn't know what they are doing.

I have to say one more time, that I REALLY hate statements like this... Way too much of this on these boards.

You really aren't smarter than everyone else.... and you look like a real elitist dbag when you talk to people that way...

[ArchStriker]

I have to say one more time, that I REALLY hate statements like this... Way too much of this on these boards.

You really aren't smarter than everyone else.... and you look like a real elitist dbag when you talk to people that way...

Gotta love the truth! xD

[Therigar]

No need to take mental toughness for an arcane archer build. Many enhancements also qualify. References to mental toughness are just a distraction.

Same applies to the comments about available feats. There are more than enough feats in either build to accommodate all the essential AA needs. This would include adding in diehard. I would point out that most builds don't take this feat (I mean builds over all). It is nice but not critical to any AA build.

A loss of ~3 points of damage per hit is roughly 6% of the damage that the ranger 6 build puts out. But if 6% is insignificant then how about you pay 6% higher taxes this year or take a 6% cut in salary or pay 6% more in university tuition....

It doesn't take 50% differences to be significant. And, because the thread is highest DPS with a bow the 6% difference is very significant.

You are correct that I left out a lot of possible damage items. One was favored enemy.

Ranger 6 gets 2 of them. Ranger 1 gets 1. I'd have to presume that the one both will have is Evil Outsiders. Undead is probably the second choice for the ranger 6 but piercing damage isn't generally effective against undead. Monstrous Humanoid or Abberation might make better choices.

I would not build for DPS with undead in mind. For trash there are better ways to deal with them via disruption. Building just to have higher DPS against the limited number of undead bosses or to deal with deathwarded skeletons in places like the Subterrane seems a bit odd to me.

The reason to stress the TWF feat line and high STR builds is so that the arcane archer can melee when necessary. IMO this is one of those cases when melee is clearly a better choice.

I appreciate that you don't like the attitude. But, the evidence seems to suggest that choosing 6 ranger levels isn't the right choice when going for highest ranged DPS.

It might be a better choice for other reasons and a player might even be willing to reduce ranged DPS because of those reasons. But, that isn't the topic of this thread.

This thread is Highest Damage with a Bow. And you don't get there with a ranger 6 build.

[Thrudh]

No need to take mental toughness for an arcane archer build. Many enhancements also qualify. References to mental toughness are just a distraction.

If you don't splash a caster level, the only way to get AA is with mental toughness.

If you don't splash a caster level, you can get evasion and sneak attack damage from two levels of rogue (and open lock and UMD, sweet).

A loss of ~3 points of damage per hit is roughly 6% of the damage that the ranger 6 build puts out.

I guess I should have checked your math after all.... if 3 points per hit is 6% of the damage, then you're saying the average damage per arrow is 50 points... something is wrong there... Ah now I see... we're talking about arcane archers and you didn't include any of their abilities in there... Slayer arrows alone add 25 points of damage per shot on average... plus, why use a crappy radiance II bow? Lightning strike bow adds a lot more damage with holy and shock and Lightning...

Then you didn't include any past lives, any other gear...

3 extra points of damage per hit is always nice... but it's still just a rounding error... It's not 6% of damage, more like 2%-3%... Gear makes more of a difference than build when you're talking that small of a difference...

I appreciate that you don't like the attitude. But, the evidence seems to suggest that choosing 6 ranger levels isn't the right choice when going for highest ranged DPS.

It might be a better choice for other reasons and a player might even be willing to reduce ranged DPS because of those reasons. But, that isn't the topic of this thread.

This thread is Highest Damage with a Bow. And you don't get there with a ranger 6 build.

You also don't talk about the advantages of 2 rogue levels... that's 6.5 extra damage with sneak attack... Yes, sneak attack with a bow can be difficult, but it's achievable against Harry or Suulo or Horoth where DPS really matters (and of course, the 6 ranger guy has +6 damage against those three instead of your +3, so you're even BEFORE sneak attack)

So technicallly your build doesn't always do Highest Damage with a Bow

Even if we're JUST talking about damage, your build isn't 100% top dog.

So, I reiterate, anyone taking more than 1 level of ranger on an arcane archer build doesn't know what they are doing.

I was responding to this quote, while IN the thread titled Highest Damage with a bow, still doesn't make the distinction.

(1) I disagree that your build is top DPS by any meaninful amount..
(2) Your quote makes it sound like you think there is no reason to take 6 levels of ranger on ANY Arcane Archer... which is completely and utterly false.

[Therigar]

(1) I disagree that your build is top DPS by any meaninful amount..
(2) Your quote makes it sound like you think there is no reason to take 6 levels of ranger on ANY Arcane Archer... which is completely and utterly false.

I think you just took the comment personally when it wasn't and are over-reacting. Then, when the maths show that R6 gives lower DPS and that your clearly personal insult about my intelligence is wrong you are left making excuses.

But, you are correct. My build is undoubtedly not the top DPS build. It just beats your R6 build and that is enough.

I fully expect that a barbarian build will be the highest DPS and, in that case, it might even turn out that R6 is the better splash because of the abundance of feats. But, you are so busy being insulted by something not even directed at you (and being intentionally insulting back as a result) that you can't even look for alternative builds that might actually help the R6 choice.

Try this on for size, barbarian 12/ranger 6/rogue 2. See if you can't fit the 13 feats I listed plus mental toughness (which, as you note, you'll need w/o bard/wizard/sorcerer). Here the ranger's free feats work for you to compensate to a large degree. If you can't fit in all 14 feats, consider what the build could be if it goes THF instead. Feel free to compare half-orc to human if you think you need the racial change for the extra feat.

I'm almost certain it will out DPS my suggestion.

BTW, I really do know the game as well as I think I do*. Feel free to admit it.

Edit: *By which I mean this, that if we stick entirely with ranged DPS a barbarian 18/ranger 1/caster 1 will out DPS the barbarian 12/ranger 6/rogue 2 that I suggest. The issue becomes one of "what else can it do?" The 12/6/2 build may not be top ranged DPS but it is probably the better build. Finally, a rogue 18/ranger 1/caster 1 will be absolute top DPS if we include sneak damage (as Thrudh suggests we do).

[Slink]

you better be min 36 dex for epics if you intend to go ranged.

otherwise it will be a whole lot of *whiff*


Edit:
Go grind your past life feats and plan for deepwoods.
Turbine always builds the game in an upwards fashion and loves to do so as it introduces a new grind into the game.

Expect deepwoods to be beyond the capabilities of AA when they get to it.
Of this, I am sure.

[ArchStriker]

Deepwoods fail and you know it.

[HAL]

Who says I was praying for the poor deluded archer? I have a long history playing ranged toons. I love them to death. Mostly I pray for crappy ranged toons who don't know how to kite. I don't care how hard you hit, if you lead the mobs on a merry chase and you're not solo, you are likely to **** off party members and feed into all the archer hate. Fine, don't pull out a weapon but don't run away either.

I personally don't understand why people would be upset that I kite a mob if I'm going to kill it (without taking any damage so the healer can't complain either). Of course I'm not talking about a boss...that's a different story.

[AylinIsAwesome]

- The Amrath AA ring and necklace set is better for non-ranger AA,as it doesnt stack with capstone

(According to THIS POST and THIS POST they do actually stack. Infact, according to those posts, the Ranger Capstone stacks with every other attack speed bonus available to ranged players.)

Both of the posts you linked to compared the Deepwood Sniper set, which is not the same as the Arcane Archer.

The Deepwood Sniper set provides an enhancement bonus to attack speed, just like Haste, the Quiver, or Black Dragonscale.

The Arcane Archer set provides a competence bonus to attack speed, like the Ranger capstone, or the Fighter capstone.


Like bonuses to not stack.

[PopeJual]

I have to say one more time, that I REALLY hate statements like this... Way too much of this on these boards.

You really aren't smarter than everyone else.... and you look like a real elitist dbag when you talk to people that way...

If we collect enough of his posts, can we trade them in for a Large Collectible Bag or a Large Ingredient Bag?

Also, a second level of Ranger gives Rapid Shot and TWF without taking away the ability to get to level 18 in another class. Two feats for 1 level ain't too shabby if you're not going to go to Ftr 18 already.

Ranger 14/Ftr6 gives you FoM and essentially full spellcasting ability for a Ranger. Sure that's not the same as Wizard or Cleric full spellcasting ability, but if you want full Wizard or Cleric spellcasting ability, then play a Wizard or Cleric.

There are lots of paths to AA. Some of them stink. Many are decent.

[Malison]

A loss of ~3 points of damage per hit is roughly 6% of the damage that the ranger 6 build puts out. But if 6% is insignificant then how about you pay 6% higher taxes this year or take a 6% cut in salary or pay 6% more in university tuition....

It doesn't take 50% differences to be significant. And, because the thread is highest DPS with a bow the 6% difference is very significant.

You are correct that I left out a lot of possible damage items. One was favored enemy.

Ranger 6 gets 2 of them. Ranger 1 gets 1. I'd have to presume that the one both will have is Evil Outsiders. Undead is probably the second choice for the ranger 6 but piercing damage isn't generally effective against undead. Monstrous Humanoid or Abberation might make better choices.

I would not build for DPS with undead in mind. For trash there are better ways to deal with them via disruption. Building just to have higher DPS against the limited number of undead bosses or to deal with deathwarded skeletons in places like the Subterrane seems a bit odd to me.

You're right, it doesn't take too many small differences to be significant. And leaving out favored enemy is exactly that.
Choosing undead as a secondary would be pretty lame, as you say, which is why you'd go for whatever is more relevant to the content you play. But most often what people care about is dps against raid bosses, which usually means devils. Then you need to apply FE damage to both, as they'll have chosen evil outsider.

Maths redone including FE damage:

R6/F13/c1:

Normal hit -- 1d10 (base) + 26 (STR) + 13 (misc) + 1d6 (good); average damage is 48.
Critical hit -- 3(1d10 (base) + 26 (STR) + 13 (misc) + 4 (on crits)) + 1d6 (good) + 4d6 (good burst) + 4d6 (light); average damage is 177.

using the 2+ hit methodology we get 17 hits for 48 each and 2 for 177 each in any group of 20 shots. Total damage is 1170.

R1/F18/c1:

Normal hit -- 1d10 (base) + 25 (STR) + 9 (misc) + 1d6 (good); average damage is 43.
Critical hit -- 3(1d10 (base) + 25 (STR) + 9 (misc) + 4 (on crits)) + 1d6 (good) + 4d6 (good burst) + 4d6 (light); average damage is 162.

Using the same 2+ hit methodology we get 16 hits for 43 points each and 3 for 162. Total damage is 1174.

Accounting for favored enemy brings the margin to an almost negligible 4 damage in 20 shots. The fighter build is improved by external sources of seeker and by increased base damage, but hurts more under fortification which should be considered if we're setting our enemy to devil bosses.

Giving each build a bloodstone and a 50% fort enemy,
R6/F13/c1 totals 1059.
R1/F18/c1 totals 1022.5.


This is why it's pointless to debate minutae of dps. The difference between the 6 ranger build and the 1 ranger build are minute, whether you accept Therigar's assumptions or mine.