Heighten metamagic feat... useful for a healer or a waste of a precious feat slot?

[Sophie-Jeanne]

In another thread I asked what I hoped was a quick on-topic addition, but I'll move my question here.

In that thread Heighten was said to be a must-have feat. My experience with Heighten has been underwhelming; just a mana drain. Other level 20 healers have told me in the past to not bother with it... so I asked about that. Unfortunately I worded my question poorly and got a stupid response. My fault.

What I meant was, in what situations does Heighten make a "OMFG look at that" impact? What kind of experiment could I do to demonstrate and understand its "must have" potency? (For example, testing Maximize is easy; try BB with it on and off. No contest.)

As a healer in a party it doesn't appear to do anything.

Soloing Vale was really disappointing. Mobs didn't seem to die any faster. So I figure either I'm doing something wrong, it's highly situational, or I was just gullible and got sucked in by Heighten fanboys. Maybe all of the above.

[Noctus]

Healers dont need it.

Clerics profit from it.

+3 to the DC of your BBs is very nice. Not when you play in the Vale at 20th level, but if you are in level appropritate content.

[sephiroth1084]

My understanding is that Heighten gets applied to your Cure and Heal spells raising their SP cost unnecessarily (and significantly), which makes it rather unappealing to healers unless you don't mind swapping it on and off.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Test: Turn Heighten on and cast Hold Person (level 2 spell) while in an epic quest.

This was my first zomg I must have that feat on my cleric. Turned out that the arcane in our epic BoB group only knew how to meteor swarm so it came down to the cleric using hold person to get us through the quest. It relies on maximum wisdom and probably some sort of +enchant DC item (spirit sight goggles, enchantment sceptor/bracers, giants napkin for instance).

The +3 DC is critical for your blade barriers and cometfalls in some content where mobs have high reflex and evasion. Having a good DC on other spells like Symbol of Persuasion, Greater Command and Banishment is also important in some content (epic/elite end game quests for instance). I don't know if you use Banishment much but you will probably notice an increase in usefulness even in the vale particularly against red names (yes you can banish them if the DC is good enough).

I wouldn't build an offensive casting cleric or FvS without the feat.

[phalaeo]

Dead mobs don't damage you or your party. Healing through damage is more SP intensive than outright destroying the threat.

What does Heighten allow you to do? It (along with other factors) allows you to get high enough DCs on your spells for them to be effective in Amrath and Epics.



Which allows you to sit back and enjoy the scenery in Amrath when all the other Clerics are scrambling for cover behind the melees.



It allows you to farm Epic quests without relying on an Arcane buddy.

It means your offensive spells land when they need to, which is more SP efficient than a re-cast.

Justifying it depends on what kind of Cleric you want to play. If you just want to healbot and maybe run a few Shrouds, then you probably would be on the fence for utility. Definitely don't need it if you aren't maxxing Wisdom or are tanking Wisdom to go melee. If you like offensive casting, then I highly recommend it.

I'd take it as one of your last feats- no real use for it before then. Turn it off while raid healing, and on when soloing or offensive casting in quests.

Basically, if you aren't trying to squash in melee feats, what else would you take? My Must-Haves are Quicken, Emp. Healing, Toughness, (Empower/Max or both), Extend. On a pure Cleric, you get 7 feats (8 on human)- all of the above amount to 6.

It does not do anything for level 9 spells, and level 7-8 Cleric spells are either buffs or lame. Where it really shines is on your bread and butter spells such as Blade Barrier, Cometfall, Greater Command, etc. I can see why you would not see much of a difference in Vale, but imagine the satisfaction of Cometfalling Clay Golems to their knees in Epic Wiz King or Greater Commanding a broken Mephit on EVoN bases.

[PNellesen]

It means your offensive spells land when they need to, which is more SP efficient than a re-cast.

Justifying it depends on what kind of Cleric you want to play. If you just want to healbot and maybe run a few Shrouds, then you probably would be on the fence for utility. Definitely don't need it if you aren't maxxing Wisdom or are tanking Wisdom to go melee. If you like offensive casting, then I highly recommend it.

I'd take it as one of your last feats- no real use for it before then. Turn it off while raid healing, and on when soloing or offensive casting in quests.

Basically, if you aren't trying to squash in melee feats, what else would you take? My Must-Haves are Quicken, Emp. Healing, Toughness, (Empower/Max or both), Extend. On a pure Cleric, you get 7 feats (8 on human)- all of the above amount to 6.

It does not do anything for level 9 spells, and level 7-8 Cleric spells are either buffs or lame. Where it really shines is on your bread and butter spells such as Blade Barrier, Cometfall, Greater Command, etc. I can see why you would not see much of a difference in Vale, but imagine the satisfaction of Cometfalling Clay Golems to their knees in Epic Wiz King or Greater Commanding a broken Mephit on EVoN bases.

Thanks for the explanation - I've had the same question as the OP, nice to see it spelled out clearly like this.

[erikbozelie]

heighten hold person and dreamspitter in epic is just awesome

if sp aint an issue, as in reavers fate.
spamming heightened maximized empowered comet falls, flame strikes and fire storms, hence repeat basically wipes every elementals off the screen.

what most folks forget are the level 4 domain spells( the allignment depending ones ).

heightened holy smites can take out entire groups by blinding. holy aura idem.

most of the time i have heighened turned off. unless i am gonna cast blade bariers. or gonna burst to undead ( yes it works on the save as far as i know ).

if you cant fit it in the build, it aint an problem, but its an awesome ability in some rare cases.

[Sophie-Jeanne]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for the clear explanations.

<3 you guys

[bryanmeerkat]

One Heightened Greater Command could stop you having to cast a lot of healing spells .If you are planning on having a proactive role rather than reactive then its well worth having

[Sophie-Jeanne]

Dead mobs don't damage you or your party. Healing through damage is more SP intensive than outright destroying the threat.

Amen to that.

Definitely don't need it if you aren't maxxing Wisdom or are tanking Wisdom to go melee.

I've taken a lot of heat for maxxing Wisdom from [former] guildies. It's nice to know that trying to push Wisdom up as high as I can hasn't been a waste.

I can see why you would not see much of a difference in Vale,

So I'm not completely crazy.

Cometfalling Clay Golems to their knees in Epic Wiz King or Greater Commanding a broken Mephit on EVoN bases.

Fewer mobs throwing down damage means less stress on me.

Again, I appreciate everybody taking their time to explain this to me. I've only been playing for maybe six months and have a lot to learn still.

[Sophie-Jeanne]

If you are planning on having a proactive role rather than reactive then its well worth having

A reactive role means rapid mana drain which means stress which means Sophie-Jeanne is not having fun.

I let the party members do what they do best, but am always keeping an eye on the situation. I have no qualms about throwing down Destruction on that pesky caster in the back who just dumped hellfire on our heads and caused me stress, or throwing up a BB to soften up the mobs when I have spare mana.

Where I unashamedly blow mana is on undead when I can take them down faster than anybody else. It's kind of fun to shine once in a while, and I carry pots for those occasions.

[phalaeo]

I've taken a lot of heat for maxxing Wisdom from [former] guildies. It's nice to know that trying to push Wisdom up as high as I can hasn't been a waste.

It depends on what you want to do. I have three Clerics, two capped, one TR'ed.

The deal with Wisdom (and how much you need)- For general "healbotting" and light casting (such as Vale trash mobs), you can start at 16, all level ups and all enhancements. For CC casting in Epics and Elites, start at 18, all level ups, all enhancements, exceptional stats... whatever it takes. For a melee Cleric, I like 14, but 12 can work.

Clerics don't have the range of offensive and CC spells like Arcanes do, but when you need them, they're really handy. For comparison, Pallai's DC on Symbol of Persuasion is a 38, which is the same as my BF, who runs an Enchantment-specced Archmage. Both of us could go higher, but that's a base comparison.

I chose a Cleric/Monk splash for my caster Cleric because Ocean Stance gives you stacking +2 Wisdom as well as other benefits. I could have gone Human for higher WIS via enhancements, but I wanted Halfling, so I found a way to make it work.

Here's the difference between the character with Maxxed Wis and the one that dumped Wisdom.

Here's Maxxed Wisdom (standing- no Yugo Pots, no ship buffs)
(Wisdom adds to my AC as well as upping DCs)



Here's the Melee Cleric who dropped starting WIS, but she has higher CHA for turns, Divine Might, bonus to saves, and Intimidate. I'm kinda proud that her Intim is up to approximately 60 self-buffed. Her casting is craaaaaaaaap, lol.... she Bladebarriers bats in VoD and can pew-pew Cometfalls on stuff she can't reach, like the crystals in Shroud.

[Fenrisulven6]

I'd take it as one of your last feats- no real use for it before then

I agree with everything else you wrote but this. I run max spec'd Heightened Soundbursts all the way thru VON (and then some).

Makes quests like Tangleroot a snooze-fest. And its still useful as a ranged stun attack against casters.

[phalaeo]

I agree with everything else you wrote but this. I run max spec'd Heightened Soundbursts all the way thru VON (and then some).

Makes quests like Tangleroot a snooze-fest. And its still useful as a ranged stun attack against casters.

Well, ok- I'll give you that. It can be useful with lower level spells like Hold Person and Soundburst like you mention.

The only question I have is how do you like to progress your feats? (And, are your Clerics Human)

I can't find slotting for it that early on, especially now that we have a PrE that requires Empower Healing earlier than I'd take it.

[Fenrisulven6]

All are human.

My 4th lvl has
Empower Healing
Spell Focus Evoc
Grt Spell Focus Evoc


At 9th I swap out the both SF/GSF Evoc with Ench, for Grtr Command.

I have Maximize by then (for burst heals) and Heighten (for SB dc, but also to save SP on single Commands)

Although I see your point - if you are NOT going for DC based cc, Heighten is useless till end game.