H orc BC, TWF or THF?

[wtorchia]

I have a caster cleric that I have TRd into a BC. I am level 14 right now and loving the build as a THF. He hits like a truck and has a ton of turns / sp. I originally went THF due to the H orc enhancment line. It seams that I should be able to do more DPS with a great axe then with any thing else. I have been having some second thoughts now though. I am thinking of doing a LR into a TWF heavy pick build. Here is how I am set up now:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 296
Spell Points: 1091 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 6
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             19                    29
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          6                     8
Wisdom               13                    16
Charisma             14                    16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance              -1                     0
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     3
Heal                  1                     5
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            2                     3
Jump                  4                     9
Listen                1                     3
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -2                    -1
Search               -2                    -1
Spot                  1                     3
Swim                  4                     9
Tumble               n/a                    n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II

I was thinking of going to this set up:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 296
Spell Points: 1064 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 9
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             20                    30
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          6                     8
Wisdom               12                    14
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                     3
Bluff                -2                    -1
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy            -2                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -1
Heal                  1                     4
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate           -2                    -1
Jump                  5                    10
Listen                1                     2
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -2                    -1
Search               -2                    -1
Spot                  1                     2
Swim                  5                    10
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost III
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III

I am just not sure if going to TWF will improve my DPS in end game or not. Any one have any experience with either setups at end game?

[Teharahma]

I'd go with TWF

But ditch OTWF cus your to-hit will be fine with Divine Power.
Maybe swap it out for Khopesh ?

[wtorchia]

I considered Khopesh, but thought that the extra +2 might help out some. The feet progression is a little strange as well. Here is what I came up with :

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 296
Spell Points: 1064 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 9
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             20                    30
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          6                     8
Wisdom               12                    14
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                     3
Bluff                -2                    -1
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy            -2                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -1
Heal                  1                     4
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate           -2                    -1
Jump                  5                    10
Listen                1                     2
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -2                    -1
Search               -2                    -1
Spot                  1                     2
Swim                  5                    10
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost III
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III

I am already 14, so I would only have to wait 1 more lvl to do the TR to keep most of my metas. It dose look good though.

[LeLoric]

Either works.

If you are going to be doing lots of epics your to hit can matter. Divine favor and power won't be enough here all the time unless you get like a dt destruction armor or something similar or always have a bard in group. Epic also offers some better options for thf versus twf.

I like the thf build as it offer's more cha. With the twf build you wont get any divine might. Half-orcs also synergize a bit better with thf due to enhancements your ap may be really hard to work out this way though.

[wtorchia]

The char for the DM2 ,extra turns and the H orc THF line is why I went THF to begin with. They add a ton to the build. I think the main thing that has me second guessing is that the THF feats kinda suck. I just do not know what else to take on the build. Mental toughness is a waste as well but is the only other thing that kinda fits. Are there better feats to take then the THF ones?

[Natashaelle]

I think it would be silly to play a half-orc and NOT take 2HF.

[wtorchia]

I think it would be silly to play a half-orc and NOT take 2HF.

I can totally agree with that. I think I am going to stick with the build as it is for now. I have not used my free feat swap yet so I can always change the THF line for something more useful later if I do not like it. Just 6 more lvls till cap then I can see how he dose in epics. Thanks for the input every one.

[Illiain]

I'd stick with the THF build. It allows you to keep Extend which is great for the short duration melee spells like DF/DP.

Recasting those every 2 minutes instead of 4 is a pain and having them drop during combat wastes time to recast and/or lowers your dps.

[parowan]

I'd stick with the THF build. It allows you to keep Extend which is great for the short duration melee spells like DF/DP.

Recasting those every 2 minutes instead of 4 is a pain and having them drop during combat wastes time to recast and/or lowers your dps.

This. I run a 19/1 HOrc THF warpriest and love him. Very similar to the OP's first build, only higher Wis (I can land Destruction with some consistency on anything short of epic or elite Amrath). Only thing I might do different is an additional fighter level so I could have kept extend - although it's not worth a reincarnation to me.

With all the PA enhancements and everything else I can hit pretty hard with my GS maul. I can also heal as well as anyone, so long as I'm not in a pug that turns out to be filled with mana-sink players. The only thing at this point that would make me consider TWF is if I were specifically designing a build primarily for epics, where the picks really make quick work of the held mobs. But if I were going to go that route I'd have built a dwarf instead of a horc. Or even a halfling. That'd be fun.

[wtorchia]

I can see how things could suck with out extend. Like I said I am def doing to stick with the build as it is.

With all the PA enhancements and everything else I can hit pretty hard with my GS maul.

Any reason you made a maul over a great ax? I was considering it as a tribute to the old 1st/2nd ed PnP clerics I used to play.

[parowan]

Well yeah, something about clerics wielding edged weapons still doesn't feel right to me. Not that it stopped me from living off of Carnifex for half my levels. But I'm going Maul for my MinII just because I want to break everything's DR, even the undead bosses, all in one weapon. I have a lot of accessories on my to do list, so probably won't do another GS weapon until I TR.

[Chette]

I prefer THF on a battle cleric so that you can dump dex and boost charisma. You'll be low on SP, so the extra bursts will be great for healing, and it also gives access to devine might. With a half-orc this makes extra sense, what with all the THF enhancements.

If you want a TWF khopesh battle healer I generally prefer favoured soul for this.