another tr, but go dorf or horc

[p3n1x0r]

currently he is a lv20 fighter with greensteel dwarven axes, and alot of the gear he will need thru his tr life.

im pondering going dwarf again for the free feat(dorf axe), or going horc, and taking it as a feat when i approach 12

crunching some general numbers i see with a horc i can achieve a 40str (20 base +5 levelups +2 tome +2 horc enhancement +3 fighter enhancement +6str ring w/ +1 exceptional str (ravager ring) and craft another +2 onto the ring.

if i go dwarf ill only end up with 38 and an extra feat somewhere

im valueing the +2 str over the free axe feat.

how do horcs fare in twf? ive seen some, but all their enhancements are geared towards the thf line.

eitherway, ive drafter up a quick char gen up to lv12

pick it apart please, or say seems well, or tell me ive been smoking moonrocks.

pointers, tips something i missed? Im posting the 2 builds im tinkering on. mainly it comes down to half orc, or a taller dwarf.

Heres my Horc build

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 12 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(12 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 190
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 7
Will: 3

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 12)
Strength             20                    25
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence          6                     6
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 12)
Balance               2                     3
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         3                     3
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  5                     7
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -2                    -2
Search               -2                    -2
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  5                     7
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Waraxe


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

And heres my Dwarven version

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Kutzzz 
Level 12 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(12 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 7
Will: 3

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 12)
Strength             18                    23
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence         10                    12
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 12)
Balance               3                     7
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         3                     4
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  4                     6
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     3
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  4                     6
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

[p3n1x0r]

im thinking horc after sleeping on it.

farmed my bloodrage symbiote today too. and made the best of a greensteel mistake(crafted heavy crossbow by mistake) so i made a displacement clicky out of it.

got my 2nd tod set last night, so now im sporting the ravager set(damage over time) and the kilaus set(tempest 1d4 slicing damage per swing)

still would like my madstoner boots, and maybe leviks bracers too. but well see.

[Therigar]

Fighters have abundant feats so unlikely you'll be pressed.

That argues a strongly for half-orc.

But, dwarves get bonuses to axes and that argues strongly for dwarf. Every +1 hit and damage modifier equates to +2 STR. If you gain +2 to hit and damage then you have matched the half-orc's higher starting STR and extra STR enhancments.

The dwarf depends on enhancements so if points there are tight you should absolutely go with half-orc. If you have an abundance of enhancements and also an abundance of feats then go with whichever you prefer.

In that last case it may come down to other factors like racial abilities or availability of race restricted gear from previous lives, etc.

[eonfreon]

A dwarf should be -4 Str behind a Horc who has taken the 2 Horc Str Enhnacements, because the Dwarf is also 2 Starting Str behind.

Horc: 20 base +5 levelups +2 tome +2 horc enhancement +3 fighter enhancement +6str ring w/ +1 exceptional str (ravager ring) and craft another +2 onto the ring = 41 which counts as a 40.

Dwarf: 18 base +5 levelups +2 tome +3 fighter enhancement +6str ring w/ +1 exceptional str (ravager ring) and craft another +2 onto the ring = 37 which counts as a 36.

And the Horc can get PA enhancements for greater damage with PA by sacrificing some more of his already large to-hit.

[p3n1x0r]

half orc is lookin better after busting those numbers out.

also in a greensteel mistake i was stuck with a heavycrossbow(feat required)

would it be worth it later on to take the feat for it? im figuring 3rd tier would be good blast to top it all off


+5 Greensteel Heavy Crossbow (2d8, 19-20/x2) With Flaming, +1d6 Fire, Shocking Burst, +1d6 electrical, +1d10/2d10/3d10 on crit - Displacement (3/day),

i made it for the displacement clicky since i find those very useful on my meelees.

[Cold_Stele]

Dwarf (or anything else for that matter) can't come close to HOrc unfortunately.

You're +3 damage/swing over Dwarf if you're both using DA.

Realistically though you want to be crafting a couple of GS Khops, so in reality you'll be doing much more than +3.

Search for one of the DPS calcs, and run the numbers so you can see for yourself.

[CrushingInklings]

It really wont make that much of a difference. And there is NOTHING wrong with taking d.axe feat on half orc. If you are planning on staying with that build/race d.axes provides very large numbers in situations were mobs are always held/stunned for auto crits like in efficient epic/raid groups.

[Redcoil]

Helf.

3d6 sneak attack and human damage boosts for when you need it. Human damage boost is on different timer than class boost, so you can Kensai STR, Human +5, Haste boost - without the horc -to hit from PA. Granted its 20sec outta 30 but still very nice when you need it.

[Cold_Stele]

Helf.

3d6 sneak attack and human damage boosts for when you need it. Human damage boost is on different timer than class boost, so you can Kensai STR, Human +5, Haste boost - without the horc -to hit from PA. Granted its 20sec outta 30 but still very nice when you need it.

I really, really wish this all added up to being the same or similar DPS to HOrc. I'd love to go HElf for my upcoming TR instead of yet another HOrc.

Unfortunately, even when getting your full SA, you're still not matching HOrc DPS.

HOrc Fighter 20 DPS - 667.72

HElf no HV - 613.81

HElf with HV - 629.88


HO are superior for every situation.

[R0cksteady]

I'd just like to throw in my vote for secret option number 3, Warforged.

[SetofBs]

Kind of as an aside to the main discussion I would mention a few things. IMHO you should try to get Imp Crit at lvl 8 (ie ASAP) and rearrange stuff to get there. Also you can consider moving some of your TWF feats back (especially OTWF). Just go THF (with no feats in THF) until about lvl 10 or 12 and switch to TWF once you can use your gear/you have ITWF.

[maddmatt70]

This is just painful to read that a half-orc fighter wielding dwarven axes is better then a dwarf wielding dwarven axes but sadly it is true. Hope the devs do something.. Well one can only hope...

[Tumarek]

A dwarf should be -4 Str behind a Horc who has taken the 2 Horc Str Enhnacements, because the Dwarf is also 2 Starting Str behind.

Horc: 20 base +5 levelups +2 tome +2 horc enhancement +3 fighter enhancement +6str ring w/ +1 exceptional str (ravager ring) and craft another +2 onto the ring = 41 which counts as a 40.

Dwarf: 18 base +5 levelups +2 tome +3 fighter enhancement +6str ring w/ +1 exceptional str (ravager ring) and craft another +2 onto the ring = 37 which counts as a 36.

And the Horc can get PA enhancements for greater damage with PA by sacrificing some more of his already large to-hit.

But in the case of the Horc using Daxes the Dorf can take the ax enhancement line what gives him +2/+2 what equals a +4 to str so he would end up haveing a str equivalent to 40, plus 60 hp (+2 con, +2 con enhance, 2 more thoughness enhance) and a feat...

Horc will hit harder because of the power attack but his to hit will be 3 lower... not much of a deal, but i dont see the horc ahead by much.