The Shieldsinger 15/3/2 Dwarven Intimibard

[karl_k0ch]

Preface: Due to the Changes to Intimidate and the Shield Mastery Feats of Update 9, this build will be outdated soon.
It's not FUBAR, but I am putting the redesign of the build and the leveling of this character on hold until the dust has settled. I will probably keep the stat spread, drop the Improved Shield Mastery Feat as well as the DR enhancements, using Intimidate as a Hate enhancing tool for a DAxe + Shield hate tank.

Addendum to the Preface: As of Update 10, I have decided that I won't roll this character in this form. He is stuck at level 13, though. So I am going to cap him as a 16/2/2 warchanter, but due to a mediocre starting Dex, I will not be able to acquire the popular TWF feats. What I am going to do is to take the full THF line, and to keep the (first) Shield Mastery feat. The result is a decent, versatile THF bard, which can turtle up in hairy situations and still deliver decent damage due to DAxes getting a benefit off the THF line. Another option, if you have the appropriate gear, is to go the AC route, taking CE and Dodge at levels 15 and 18.
I will not try to get a capped intimidate since the options to generate enough hate are too limited on this build (only mediocre DPS, no further inherent hate enhancements.)

The build which I going to roll is the following, in short:

16 Str (all level ups here)
14 Dex
16 Con
12 Int
8 Wis
12 Cha.

1 Rog
2-3 Bard
4 Fighter
5-9 Bard
10 Rogue
11-13 Bard
14 Fighter
15-20 Bard

Feats:
1 Toughness
3 Power Attack
4 WF: Slash
6 Extend
9 Shield Mastery
12 IC: Slash
14 THF
15 ITHF
18 GTHF

Skills: Maxed UMD, Perform, DD, Search. Decent ranks in Spot, OL and Intimidate.

-----

As a spin-off of this thread, I realized that it's really hard (but doable) to make a Warchanter who has a good intimiscore, can shield-tank, has Evasion, good AC and can handle traps. So I decided to drop one of these, namely AC.

The build achieves the following:

• Full Warchanter II song arsenal, including Fascinate and AC song
• Maxed Search and Disable
• very good shield blocking DR (around 32-46, depending on shield)
• good DPS (also in epics) thanks to songs and axe enhancements
• Potential to get intimidate into the 70s
• Option to Feat-swap (2 feats) him into a build similar to Purgatory's Ûberchanter

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 15 Bard) 
Hit Points: 330
Spell Points: 472 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 15
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            14                    17
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             12                    16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               6                 11                   15
Bluff                 4                  6                    6
Concentration         3                  5                    5
Diplomacy             1                  3                    3
Disable Device        5                 25                   25
Haggle                1                  3                    3
Heal                 -1                  0                    0
Hide                  2                  3                    3
Intimidate            5                 26                   36
Jump                  7                 11                   11
Listen               -1                  0                    0
Move Silently         2                  3                    3
Open Lock             6                  9                    9
Perform               n/a               26                   26
Repair                1                  2                    2
Search                5                 25                   27
Spot                  3                  4                    4
Swim                  3                  7                    7
Tumble                3                  4                    4
Use Magic Device      5                 26                   26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+5)


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+6)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Shield Mastery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Shield Mastery III
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II

Critique is much appreciated.

HP Breakdown:

20 Base
20 Fighter
18 Rogue
90 Bard
22 Toughness
30 Enhancements
160 Con (+8 Mod = 26 Con = 16 base + 2 enh + 2 tome + 6 item)
20 Minos
10 Draconic
45 Shroud
30 GFL
-----
465 HP standing

20 rage
20 Ship Buff
40 Madstone
---
545 HP situational

Bonuses not included: +3 tomes, 3rd enhancement tier, +7 con, exceptional con +1, +2.


Saves (assuming 12 dex, 18 con (with enh), 8 wis and +2 tomes and +6 items)

15 Bard 5/9/9
3 Rogue 1/3/1
2 Fighter 3/0/0
Stats 8/5/3
Luck 2/2/2
Superior Stability 6/6/6
GH 4/4/4
Ritual 1/1/1
----
Total 30/30/26

not included: Ship Buffs, Potions, epic resistance bonuses.

pure Blocking DR:

9 (base for bab 15)
3 (divine power or madstoned)
6 feats
3 enhancements
6/7/12/15 shield (Skyvault/Light and Darkness/Epic Kundarak Shield/Lorrik )
----
27/28/33/36 Blocking DR, depending on shield

On top of this: 5/- DR from Warchanter Song or 10/Adamantine from Stoneskin.

projected AC breakdown (as of U10)


10 base
5 Natural
5 Deflection
4 Insight
4 Dodge
2 Dodge
7 dex (24 dex = 14 base + 2 tome + 7 item + 1 enhancement)
8 armor
1 ritual, armor
1 +7 slot, armor
8 shield (epic K)
1 ritual shield
1 +7 slot, shield
4 morale, bard
---
61 AC, standing

sustainable buffs:

1 haste
1 ship dex
2 ship natural
1 haste guard
---
66 AC sustainable. With PA switched on.

[maddmatt70]

The obvious question is why not 14 bard 6 fighter. Is evasion really that important?

[Sequell]

The obvious question is why not 14 bard 6 fighter. Is evasion really that important?

IMO the obvious answer is...No, evasion isn't that important.

Evasion isn't bad but definately a significant trade off in comparing this build to a 14/6.

[Bilger]

The obvious question is why not 14 bard 6 fighter. Is evasion really that important?

Why 15 bard ac song seems to me that with feats selected you plan on displacing shield up and get beat to death.

Seems that yes can intim things and keep aggro but when comes to bosses who have true seeing of some sort ya will be more a mana sponge of sorts. Seems it will be a good trash holder maybe.

As long as have dps to fall back on should be fine but without mitigating ac seems more like a sponge to me.

Still it can work as a nice wc bard but the tanking part is iffy the dr from shield will help alot with trash but as a main tank don't think it would be nothin but a sponge but as trash tank be fine.

Looks like fun and sorry if sounds like putting down

[karl_k0ch]

Why 3 Rogue? Because I like rogues, and because it adds versatility to the build via Evasion, Traps and some DPS in non-aggro situations.

Why 15 Bard? One of the strengths of this build are that it is not a very specialized one-trick pony, but it has e.g. the full buffing arsenal to ensure that the DPS deal more damage and that the main tank has the maximal possible amount of AC. Going only 14 Bard would shift from a party-beneficial role towards a more focused tank build. 14 bard/6 fighter would have enough feats to support AC improvements, btw. Another point is the option to LR to a build which is similar to Purgatory's, as linked in the OP.

I see that playing the main tank's role in elite raids can be difficult. But I think that the build will be a good secondary tank (e.g. for orthons in VoD) and it will provide a huge boon to the party's DPS via its sole presence. Bilger, I do not see your comments as putting down the build - I am very much aware of the fact that not focusing on AC will make main tanking difficult.

NB: Because I took neither Dodge nor CE, the build can be able to get its AC only into the lower 70s, see here for Purgatory's breakdown with CE and Dodge (for a total of a difference of 6 AC).

[Humperdink]

Here are some tips that may prove useful:

-Of course intimidate garners attention. Bards can self heal either through spells or scrolls. Both require a concentration skill check if you attempt to cast while under duress. Quicken only works for spells, not scrolls. This is why on my bard I opted for a high con skill and reach 60+ with buffs. It allows for high self sufficiency.

-Don't forget you can UMD stoneskin from wands to increase your blocking DR and that is a concentration check if you cast multiple times while under attack.

-Blocking DR is partially based on your Base Attack Bonus. Use either divine power clickies or Madstone boots to ensure your BAB is at it's highest possible amount.

-I chose the Lorikk's shield from the Hound raid as it only has 15% Arcane Spell Failure (vs 40% and Levik's) and no sonic guard which could potentially be detrimental if you are in a scenario where the strategy calls for reducing a bad guy's health to a very low amount and then holding it there. I imagine it's a little embarrassing to say your shield killed the bad guy and ruined the quest.

-If you haven't done it before, practice a little bit with shield blocking so you get a feel for when the blocking DR applies and when it doesn't. The effective area is about a 45 degree arc on each side of straight forward or a 90 degree arc in total. Don't forget the environment can help you out like by backing into corners so you can't be attacked from the side or rear. You can also tumble to reposition yourself so a monster is in front of you.

[karl_k0ch]

Here are some tips that may prove useful:

-Of course intimidate garners attention. Bards can self heal either through spells or scrolls. Both require a concentration skill check if you attempt to cast while under duress. Quicken only works for spells, not scrolls. This is why on my bard I opted for a high con skill and reach 60+ with buffs. It allows for high self sufficiency.

-Don't forget you can UMD stoneskin from wands to increase your blocking DR and that is a concentration check if you cast multiple times while under attack.

Putting Concentration into this build would most likely require a switch from 14 Dex, 12 Int to 12 Dex, 14 Int. Is -1 Reflex save worth the Concentration score?

Edit: Saves Breakdown has been editied into the OP.

[Humperdink]

Having a high concentration skill is a play style choice. I'm not absolutely advocating it. If you are comfortable waiting until you are out of danger (even if that means momentarily by moving away from the fight) then don't worry about concentration. I like to solo high level content and use intimidate sometimes even in parties while fighting with dual khopeshes. This allows everyone else's sneak attack bonuses to go off (equipment, class, racial) and helps me fill up my mana bar quickly due to using the torc necklace from Demon Queen and a greensteel Concordant Opposition accessory. I can easily heal with Maximized Mass Cure Moderates. But I of course built this character with some defensive measures to ensure I can survive the attention I draw. I don't recommend this strategy for the average squishy bard.

Don't forget bards get good reflex saves. My reflex save with a 22 Dex, GH, Haste, Head of Good Fortune, and a +5 resistance item is a 35. So one less would be a 34. 30+ is quite effective against most magical attacks in the game. Against traps it depends on the level of content as some Epic and elite require a good bit higher if you have to be in the trap or cross over it to disable.

[Nephilia]

I missed a point here Karl... why 3 rogue instead of 2?
Is the +1d6 to sneak attack worth otto's irrisistible dance missing?

[karl_k0ch]

I missed a point here Karl... why 3 rogue instead of 2?
Is the +1d6 to sneak attack worth otto's irrisistible dance missing?

It's the Skill points.
I'm maxing out 3 skills which are non-class skills for bards (Initmidate, DD, Search), on top of perform and UMD. In order to do this with only 2 rogue levels, I'd either need at least 8 Skill points per bard level or I would have to delay the second Rogue level until 20 (and even that might not be enough and would need more skill point investments via a higher starting int).

+1 fort, compared to 16 bard/2 rogue is a nice bonus, but not essential.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I'd advertise in your thread that you can have 36 blocking DR + 5/- from warchanter + 10/adamantine from stoneskin spell for a grand total of 41/- or 46/adamantine blocking DR, sweet!

Don't worry about those naysayers who think 14 bard, 6 fighter is better. Dwarven Defender PrE will come out soon and then we'll show them. Personally I'd prefer 16/2/2, why did you go this way instead? 1d6 sneak attack vs cure mod mass and OID is an easy choice for me.

[karl_k0ch]

I'd advertise in your thread that you can have 36 blocking DR + 5/- from warchanter + 10/adamantine from stoneskin spell for a grand total of 41/- or 46/adamantine blocking DR, sweet!

Don't worry about those naysayers who think 14 bard, 6 fighter is better. Dwarven Defender PrE will come out soon and then we'll show them. Personally I'd prefer 16/2/2, why did you go this way instead? 1d6 sneak attack vs cure mod mass and OID is an easy choice for me.

Only pure blocking DR was considered in the OP, indeed, I'll update the OP accordingly.

Yeah, I really look forward to the Dwarven Defender PrE. I just hope that they'll drop the Alignment Prereq, just like they did for Pale Master and the Assassin.

See also the two posts just above yours.
The aim of this build is to have UMD, Intimidate, Perform, Search and Disable maxed. Since Intimidate is not a class skill for Bards, it is rather hard to work in all those skills on a 16/2/2 split if you don't want to wait until level 20 for evasion. (I'm not implying this is impossible, this is just the best I could figure out.)
But if you can provide a skill point progression which does that - I'd be very interested to hear it and willing to LR into that. Actually, since I contemplate LRing at cap anyway, also a progression which takes rog only at 1 and 20 is still of interest for me.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Only pure blocking DR was considered in the OP, indeed, I'll update the OP accordingly.

Yeah, I really look forward to the Dwarven Defender PrE. I just hope that they'll drop the Alignment Prereq, just like they did for Pale Master and the Assassin.

See also the two posts just above yours.
The aim of this build is to have UMD, Intimidate, Perform, Search and Disable maxed. Since Intimidate is not a class skill for Bards, it is rather hard to work in all those skills on a 16/2/2 split if you don't want to wait until level 20 for evasion. (I'm not implying this is impossible, this is just the best I could figure out.)
But if you can provide a skill point progression which does that - I'd be very interested to hear it and willing to LR into that. Actually, since I contemplate LRing at cap anyway, also a progression which takes rog only at 1 and 20 is still of interest for me.

I see your dilemma if you want to fit in search and disable as well. Personally, I would dump them and pick up other useful skills such as balance and drop intelligence to put up con for more HP. Your HP will be critical and 20 more HP at level 20 could mean the difference between being able to Horoth tank and not.

Alternatively, look at what numbers you need for search and disable for the traps that you want to do. Perhaps skip the hardest epic traps? With an epic spyglass (+20 search), +5 tools and all the buffs you can get you can probably disable most traps with only 4 ranks in search and disable.

Then the choice might become +20 HP, balance, OID, MCMW, +31+ SP vs +1d6 sneak attack, epic trap disabling and that is an even easier choice for me.

Perhaps leave the epic traps for a 36 point TR with lots of gear under your belt (like a +4 int tome).

In the end your evasion should let you walk through the traps anyway and you can UMD a raise dead scroll on the other side for the squishier folk

[krisz93]

Brilliant idea, i think i'll make something similar to kill time till Deepwood Sniper II is out

[baii]

How much intim u reaching?

[karl_k0ch]

To specify the statement in the OP:

Intimidate breakdown:
23 base
15 item
4 gh
4 warchanter
4 luck
6 cha 22 = 12 base + 6 item + 2 tome + 2 enhancements
3 SF
2 Bullheaded
6 gs
1 enhancement
2 coin lord
----
70

on top of this:
Focusing Chant (+1), Epic Claw (+5), yogu pot (+1), ship buff (+1), any two of: +3 tome, +7 cha, +1 exceptional cha (+1).

[karl_k0ch]

Well, U9 is going to hit this character like a bus. I don't think that I will be able to reliably hate-tank Raid bosses with this char.

Nevertheless, he's at 12, banking 13 already and I am wondering what to do with him - as I will need a LR to switch him to an ordinary Axesinger, I might as well level him to cap as a flavor build and LR him later, if needed. The OP's reasoning is still true: The hugest part of a bard's dps is inspire courage. If I go THF, TWF, or even S&B does not make a huge difference.
Shields are in this build for two and a half reasons: Defense (via the Shield Mastery feat which will reduce incoming damage), Style and a possible Dwarven Defender PrE.


I am pondering with the following changes for the levels 13+.

• Keep the Shield Mastery Feat for it's percentual damage resistance while wielding a shield.
• Dump Improved Shield Mastery (the times of blocking are over) for TFH, in order to increase DPS, also while wearing a shield (DAxes proc glancing blows with shields as well)
• Switch the last level for Bard, going with 16/2/2. This will result in a final intimidate of 18.
• Dump SF: Intimidate and Bullheaded for ITHF and GTHF.

The question is: Which Mobs can be intimidated with a mediocre skill value (18 Skills + 15 Item + 4 Warchanter + 6 Cha + 2 Luck + 4 GH = 49; more with green steel and coin lords). Orthons in VoD and Puppies come to my mind. Any other thoughts?

As a final end-game option, AC is still there, but it will require even more items. As we need to swing, CE's value has diminished, imho.

Any thoughts are much appreciated.