Adamantine body is useless?

[gurth83]

Character with 8 dex can easly hit 18 dex (6 item +2 tome +2 guild). It is +4 dex ac. Adamantine body gives 8 ar + 1 max dex bonus, mitrhal body 5 + 5 max dex bonus (can be more with mithral fluidity). Conclusion: character with 8 dex can have same ac in both adamantie and mithral body. In adamantine it lose evasion, -5 armor check penalty, 35% arcane spell failture and it gives 2 adamamtine DR (marginal) and character in adamantine body will lose less ac from dex when stuned,paralazed but WF is immune to paralize so its marginal too. In my opinion this feat is usless. Improve it a bit? Set 25% spell failutere? Anything?

[Hellllboy]

Typically at endgame-WF use this feat for DR-as A/C is irrelevant. You will not gain a meaningful A/C by using this body feat.

You usually see Fighters grab it as they have extra Feats.

Not useless-but very little value (IMO)

[FuzzyDuck81]

It looks better on docents than without?

The DR is its big draw - both my WF FvS have it since it stacks with the lord of blades capstone, allowing up to 15/adamantine DR

[Anneliese]

It is very nice for <10 chars where low AC can be useful. But after that..only for looks or for DR



Maybe they will make it a prereq for the WF racial PRE

[teamghost]

Is it worth it for a Lord of Blades type FvS to take Adamantine Body? Or are the minuses to skills not worth it?

[LuckyLuke2]

Is it worth it for a Lord of Blades type FvS to take Adamantine Body? Or are the minuses to skills not worth it?

Endgame the added DR/2 is not very significant. I wanted to swap it out for Quicken (mine is a battlesoul build), but in the end I kept it for esthetical reasons (docent look). At start and mid-levels both the higher AC and extra DR are useful imho. It will however not be on my feat selection list when I TR my FVS.

[Hellllboy]

Is it worth it for a Lord of Blades type FvS to take Adamantine Body?

I had this feat for a while-found Empower to be more useful to me(IMO)-dropped it.

[DeathsApprentice]

Is it worth it for a Lord of Blades type FvS to take Adamantine Body? Or are the minuses to skills not worth it?

While I'm currently only in the developement fase of my Lord of Blades FvS, I can with a rather high certainty say that the minuses to skills are not the reason to drop Adamantine Body.

It's choosing between DR13 and some other feat and DR15. Personally, I plan on taking Adamantine Body, unless I manage to loot/buy/steal/beg a Docent of Defiance (and even then I'll have to try it and see)

[Memnir]

I don't take it for the AC, I take it for the DR and boost that up further with enhancements.

[NeutronStar]

It looks better on docents than without?

The DR is its big draw - both my WF FvS have it since it stacks with the lord of blades capstone, allowing up to 15/adamantine DR

I don't take it for the AC, I take it for the DR and boost that up further with enhancements.

Yes

[Kinerd]

A better question, perhaps, is whether Mithral Body is useless. You acquire a Maximum Dex Bonus and become uncentered, and don't get any DR.

[muffinlad]

A better question, perhaps, is whether Mithral Body is useless. You acquire a Maximum Dex Bonus and become uncentered, and don't get any DR.

This, exactly.

As a Wizard, don't forget about the enhanced ASF you get from Mithral Body (for sorc/wis types), for the nearly pointless few drab bits of AC.


It's Mithral that needs looking at.

14 DR (second level of the enhancement) has saved my bacon plenty of times with Adamantine.

muffinadamant

[Bicarbonate]

Character with 8 dex can easly hit 18 dex (6 item +2 tome +2 guild). It is +4 dex ac. Adamantine body gives 8 ar + 1 max dex bonus, mitrhal body 5 + 5 max dex bonus (can be more with mithral fluidity). Conclusion: character with 8 dex can have same ac in both adamantie and mithral body. In adamantine it lose evasion, -5 armor check penalty, 35% arcane spell failture and it gives 2 adamamtine DR (marginal) and character in adamantine body will lose less ac from dex when stuned,paralazed but WF is immune to paralize so its marginal too. In my opinion this feat is usless. Improve it a bit? Set 25% spell failutere? Anything?

the big problem with how DR works n ddo compared to regular d&d imo is the emphasis on mobs hitting zomg hard rather than the "wow... you guys are gonna hate me here apparently this gets gets how many attacks per round!" type critters & "the entire legion of archers draws an arrow and looks ready to fire inat you guys". dr2 vrs 6-10+ smaller tacks/round is more useful than vrs 1 "uh-oh I think the dm is about to dump his entire box of dice over to roll that damage" attack.

[Rathic]

Yeah all body feats need a looking at

hopefully they will have some effect on the racial PRE but they should all have their own enhancement line at least if not some other sort of innate bonus

[Bicarbonate]

Yeah all body feats need a looking at

hopefully they will have some effect on the racial PRE but they should all have their own enhancement line at least if not some other sort of innate bonus

The warforged racial PRE's are all a bit iffy as written though,hopefully turbine does a nice job tweaking them a bit before implementing. Juggernaut gets:

• a handfull of extra immunities, many of them to things not really in DDO or easily warded against through other means without the terrible cost of a complete inability to be healed by divine magic or eat/drink... when was the last time you saw an oil of something other than repair. Sure anyone with brew potion should be able to make any potion into an oil for the same cost/effort instead of potion but they don't exist in ddo. no more potions for them either. unless turbine implements it as having such off the scale power, these guys are likely to be about as popular in a group as the poor wf who take the imp fort feat& havent respecced out yet.
• juggernaut gets even worse when you read the heal immunityflaw entry a few times to see what exactly it covers then realize what that is.. Conjuration [healing] includes raise dead and similar spells...
• 1d6 then later 1d8 armor spikes.lets say they just make them work like pierce damage version of elemental guard stuff, but that is hardly great damage worth picking up the heal immunity even if they made it proc on every attack.
• bunch of charge related stuff with no PC-charge skills/abilities in game
  spellcarved soldier has the same problem as many of the other gis PRE classes, hybrid melee/caster with no caster skills or advancement. Sure tweaked versions of the runes to just have them always work would be cool. extend on everything anyone buffs you with is nice but not exactly redefining of the class, same with the fortification rune & rune that gives bonus to save against lots of stuff not in use in ddo.
• reforged is just such terrible thing, you are better finding someone to pao you into something else or even selfcast wish and burn the 5k-xp just to change to something else
• I think that covers everything but landforged walker (bizarre wf druid thing that still cant use metal armor even though it's technically living metal since it's supposed to rot/degrade if removed from the wf so PC's dont get thousands of plat worth of mithral/adamantine every time they kill a wf.)

[hu-flung-pu]

@bicarbonate

A warforged juggernaught could be given an over run ability, with penalties to knock down based on size modifier. And giving bonuses to hit while moving, twitch two handed weapon players rejoice. Throw in extra enchantment immunities and an extra 10-15-20% fortification. And I think most players would enjoy that.

Spell carved soldier PrC is suited more towards Artificers then straight up casting classes. Where a Warforged artificer can create enchantments and dugong directly on his body.

@gurth83

As others have said, dr is the reason to take adamantine body, even with 5/adamantine, you'll notice a deficit in incoming damage compared to other races and classes with out it.

[voodoogroves]

Serioulsy optimized WF Juggernauts overcame the healing deficiency or didn't take the full PrC. Or possibly gambled on a one-round kill.

Spellcarved Soldier I've always seen more used/useful on compressed casting classes (PrCs with their own spell lists, etc.)

[aiastelmon]

For a FvS Lord of Blades build, I believe that Addy body is a very good feat up until level 20. This allows you to get to DR5. Without Addy body, you're only getting to DR3. This is a big difference, considering FvS AC becomes useless at around level 12. Once you hit level 20, then you can certainly make a solid case to drop your body feat and grab metamagic or a melee DPS feat.

But as a FvS who primary tanks a lot, I would be dead without my Addy body DR added to my enhancements.

If you want to do a WF fighter, then I think Addy body is even more of a no-brainer, as you have the feats to pull it off. You're going to need even more DR as a fighter than as a FvS, so you might even be using a few feat slots for DR. With this being the case, Addy body is 2 DR for 1 feat, rather than 1 DR for a feat.

[Rathic]

For a FvS Lord of Blades build, I believe that Addy body is a very good feat up until level 20. This allows you to get to DR5. Without Addy body, you're only getting to DR3. This is a big difference, considering FvS AC becomes useless at around level 12. Once you hit level 20, then you can certainly make a solid case to drop your body feat and grab metamagic or a melee DPS feat.

But as a FvS who primary tanks a lot, I would be dead without my Addy body DR added to my enhancements.

If you want to do a WF fighter, then I think Addy body is even more of a no-brainer, as you have the feats to pull it off. You're going to need even more DR as a fighter than as a FvS, so you might even be using a few feat slots for DR. With this being the case, Addy body is 2 DR for 1 feat, rather than 1 DR for a feat.

why drop it at 20? 15 DR is very nice

[hu-flung-pu]

why drop it at 20? 15 DR is very nice

Either way has merits.

It's a feat and 12 AP's for 5 DR.

I just think if you're going for the armorless route, you're better served taking two levels of monk as well for two feats.