Dear Pew Pews'

[sephiroth1084]

My favorite. The Arcane Archer who in his infinite wisdom decided to multishot the devastator in epic chrono before I (as main tank) could even get up to him to start swinging, and almost caused a party wipe.

Had this happen in a run I did as well. Maybe it was the same guy?

[Blank_Zero]

"Bad kiting" comes from e-peen measuring melees, who are so worried about their kill count, they must chase every monster.

The correct way is to understand that if a "pew-pew" is kiting something, they will kill it (if they are any good) or bring it to you(if they are so-so) or die (if they suck).

Once this is understood by all involved, or at least the melee, then the melee have a much more fun time.

You kite it, You kill it.

-sincerely yours
e-peen measuring melee

[Kaeldur]

You know melee's it can be hard to spot you guys behind all the damage numbers scrolling across the screen as my "pew pew" arcane archer is clearing most of the field in those 20 seconds. So send up a flare next time, or have the Bard Drop a disco ball so I know where to bring the hurting remnants of the mob hoards to your feet next time..

The overall DPS of a well played "pew pew" can be staggering, due to improved precise shot and being able to line up multiple targets at once!

DPS (Damage Per Second) != DPH (Damage Per Hit)

DPS is a combination of DPH & ROA (Rate Of Attack)

I know you know that, but ranged ROA is much lower than melee. So even though you get extreme numbers, the amount of times you hit per second doesn't compensate the amount of hits melees are not getting per second.

Melee's don't sweat about chasing those mobs like a bunch of Benny Hill goobs, pull out a dang ranged weapon and join the kills. There are clearly times when melee is best and other times when ranged is best.

If the melees have to pull out ranged weapons to do any damage, that's obviously a time where going 'pew pew' is hurting the overall DPS.


Yes, ranged combat has a place in DDO and can be a huge asset to the group. But it needs to be done correctly. You, as a player, have to think "am I helping the group?" instead of "woah look at my awesome damage, lemme take a screenshot to show off to everyone", because unless you take those mobs down in one shot, your DPS might be very good, but it's not as good as 3 more people together beating on those mobs.

[RuneStriker]

Nice to see some actual advice finally being given out as the OP requested. Let's see some more of that.

Funny how a self-deprecating melee puts out the call for experienced pew-pews to teach those less skilled on how to get better so the whole party can benefit and yet the majority of replies from the pew pews on the first page start bringing up DPS and bad melees and it is those same people who are completely missing the mark of explaining to up-and-coming pew pews about how to be good at what they do.

OP never said anything about DPS - guess you must have an inferiority complex going on about that to bring it into the discussion.

OP never said kiting wasn't useful, in fact this whole thread is about making kiters more effective

To rephrase for those who's spot is so high they can't see the forest for the trees:

...So from the melees of DDO, I'd like this post to be your one stop shop for advice on how to kite effectively.

Please, those of you who know how to kite, please feel free to post, for the good of the community, for the sake of those melee who could no longer stand it. I don't pretend to know how to do it well, but I know bad kiting when I see it! ...

You claim to be great at what you do, but the true master is one who can pass his knowledge down to others so that his craft can grow and mature and endure the sands of time. So let's see it. What does one need to do to become an effective pew-pew kiter?

[krackythehoodedone]

You certainly hit a soft spot with this thread..Captain Bullseye?
Ok i'm gonna be subjective.
Pew Pews you gotta accept that compared with a decent Melee toon ur DPS for 1.40 secs is gonna be inferior. Even using Imp precise shot and tabbing through targets to hit more than one mob at once.
Youve also gotta accept that kiting loads of mobs all over the place is generally a bad move and upsets folk.
Melees you gotta accept that for 20 seconds the Pew Pew is gone blow your DPS outta the water and a well placed manyshot is a party saver.
Melees you also gotta accept that the love affair with the Bow aint ever gonna die however much it is gimped so you may as well learn to live with it or try to educate it.

So a few tips for Le Pew Pew.
1, Dont draw aggro all over the place
2, Read number one again and repeat 300 hundred times.
3, If you do get some aggro dont run off screaming like a big wuss
4, You are not their to win the kill count (neither is anyone else really but some think its cool, just dont try and win the kill count)
5, Wait for aggro to be secured, at a pinch you could shoot a far off mob drawing to the party but it had better work

6,Using your imp prec shot and a bow(s) with a nasty proc pour fire into as many mobs as you can targetting (tabbing) the mob at the back to get all the mobs inbetween. You will need to learn to move often yourself to continuosly maximise targets affected, whilst switching your target as well. This is gonna take practise and you need to turn off auto targetting. Also remember you can target those hard to reach caster enemies so watch out for high value mobs and blast em. The guy earlier who said he switched between imp cursespewing and parylzing...perfect. The melees will be bashing mobs that have -4 to the universe and are conveniently frozen in mid air. He is the kind of AA that will be welcome in any group.

7, If you master this you will be worth your place in any party. I dont personally prescribe to the mainstream view that you shoot first and go for the blades. You need all the ranged feats to make an Archer work that leaves not much for meleeing. Ok their are gonna be some specialist weapon kits you will need, a blunt holy combo for skellies and some end fights. A pair of vorps, maybe a pair of stunners and portal beaters

8, You have Manyshot..this is really really really good..use it wisely..and as much as you can..if you are going into a fight and nothing is aggroed ask the PL to wait for it to reload if not already. Manyshot takes you right to the top of the DPS tree. A DPS of over a 1000 is not unheard of. Multiply that by 20 and add maybe 5 mobs at once and that is some serious damage..add in a proc and even better.

9, Have some hit points. No seriously min con 14 and put effort into having strong hit points. Dex..well aim for endgame 30 (non epic) 36 (epic) and you will hit just about everything. Then Str STR STR..if your Str ends up higher than Dex..all good

10, Kiting occasionaly is a plus point..You can run a big boss about for awhile whilst the party deals with the trash.

11, Have a nice selection of bows. Silver Longbow at 6 is a must. Parylzer asap is a super weapon at mid levels. Then for end game a nice range of the speciality stuff such as imp destruction, shattermantle, banishers etc and then greensteel time. Lightning 2 is No1 choice (Btw dont make a min2, waste due to flexibility of ammo overcoming DR) but you cant go wrong with an earthgrab or something a bit different like a trap the soul or ennervate.

12, Congratulation Mr Hood you are one of the Archers who give their kind a good name and can get accepted into pretty much any group

[Talon_Moonshadow]

To add a few thoughts.


There is no one method fixes all way to kite/range...etc.

Sometimes I shoot first...pull agro, in an attempt to draw things to us. Then see melee guys charge forward, only to have the monsters run right past them, and they have to turn around and give chase.

I sometimes, start runing forward then....jump over the mobs, and lead them back the melee guys.

In a lot of raids, I take the I'm standing my ground and not moving, even if it kills me approach.

I do not hesitate to shield block and try to endure the pain long enough for th melees to try to get agro back.

But then others, it seems smarter to kite things through blade barriers and firewalls.
or webs and disco balls.


Usually I just melee. Even if I know I can do better DPS with the bow. Just to be party friendly.
But TWFing is fun too. And I do try to build for both.


But the melee guys need to take some responsibility too. And be tolerant.
Why won't they build their chars with Intimidate?! Or at least try to use it instead of chasing?
Why can't they learn to anticipate how the archer wil act, and try to work with him?

Also it's a game. Which is more fun if every fight is not the same.

Sometimes I just feel like showing off, and decide the melee guys can just suck it up, while I rush in and manyshot a whole army at once and have some fun!

[Ganolyn]

Kiting is so easy even a Cavema..., I mean Barb can do it:

1) If in a closed area, backpeddle in a circle and fire, keeping the mob(s) in front of you until help arrives.

2) When (if) it does, run towards your party while at the same time (now here's the important part) your party runs towards you, not the mob(s). Running after the mob only results in the Benny Hill Show we all love.

3) Once you intersect with your party, stop behind them and let them get some free hits until aggro switches, which usually results in a dead mob before it gets its bearings again.

4) If in an open area you can try to get behind the mob(s) once aggro has shifted to get the flanking bonus, SA or whatever with melee weapons.

[Calebro]

Repeater rogues take notice of this thread.
You are **** Pew Pews as well.

[Calebro]

Why can't they learn to anticipate how the archer wil act, and try to work with him?

Sorry T, but I disagree here.
Why should the other 5 people learn to anticipate what one person will do and change their game plan because of that person?
Doesn't it make more sense for that one person to anticipate what the other five people will do and act appropriately?

Casters know to kite in circles around a kill zone.
For an archer, his kill zone is the other melees. They need to kite around the kill zone or be left behind, because I'm not chasing stuff they they aren't kiting properly.
When a pew pew kites incorrectly I explain how to do it. The second time it happens, I leave them to die while I move on to the next fight.

[Terebinthia]

Are there any good vids of pew pews, in the same way as BB kiting etc?

I don't have a pew pew (well my Silver Flame FS is technically a pew pew but I can't remember the last time I wielded a bow on her so that doesn't count) but wondered if any pew pews would be able to go "ooh, there's this awesomesauce vid I saw".

Just a thought.

[Zenako]

A truely good view vid might leave the viewer awash in motion sickness from all the twists and turns to be the top of your game. Not sure I can recall see any vids but likely there are some.

[NaturalHazard]

I dont play a pew pew toon ive got melee rangers, but they all got bows, and that many shot and improved precise shot and be **** useful in certain situatons, esp when things can be paralyzed, I paralyze whole lines of enemies so you other melees can have easy kills and get all the glory.

[NaturalHazard]

And if your a pew pew ranger you have the twf feats, so there are times you know when you can put that bow down and step up and melee, oh and if your a pew pew ranger, str should not be a dump stat, neither should con.

[Snormal]

A good rule of thumb for archers is never target a mob(s) you don't expect to kill by yourself (boss's excluded). Melee's don't sweat about chasing those mobs like a bunch of Benny Hill goobs, pull out a dang ranged weapon and join the kills. There are clearly times when melee is best and other times when ranged is best. A good "pew-pew" knows those times and does not stick blindly to one style, just like a good "melee" should know it as well. My AA has many top notch melee combos as well, for when those options are superior and uses them whenever the situation calls for it.

I hope you're kidding here. The whole party should pull out bows and cut party dps by 90%?

[Chris79]

Tasty stuff...a heady cocktail of AAs on the defensive about their uber dps, a dash of melees sharing their hatred of the pew pew and a sprinkling of some good advice to the learning pew pew


I applaud and encourage this activity. Furthermore, next time your in a group with a pew pew, if they do well, let them know with a 'Daaaaamn, pew pew!'....if they clearly think 'kiteing' involves a park and running around with string, let them know with a '**** pew pew!' and refer them here. This is a 'thing'... I've started it


I hope for the day we shall see LFMs actually requesting pew pews.....maybe 'ToD - hard, need a 'Daaaamn, pew pew!' ' . One can dream

[sirdanile]

I hope you're kidding here. The whole party should pull out bows and cut party dps by 90%?

10% is better than 0% in the case of a silly kiter.

Archers: Trick to kiting, small tight circles while staying just outside of the enemy mobs hit box, if the melees are chasing either sit still for a second or kite into them and stop moving.

Melees: With manyshot on a well geared pew pew can kill things from a distance just as fast or faster (Depending on luck) as a similarly geared monster build, a good one will know what they can kill and what they can't, sometimes mistakes happen and there are mobs left after a giant line aoe of monster rate dps, either let the archer finish up if they're not kiting well For survival reasons... teleporting mobs such as orthons muck with us a bit.

Other: Archers should always be as self sufficient as possible because of the prejudice seen in this thread being displayed by melees. At higher levels you'll have less and less problems with bad kiters simply because all the bad ones can't level up.

[Zenako]

I hope you're kidding here. The whole party should pull out bows and cut party dps by 90%?

ummm engage in hyperbole much?..

Yes for most characters pulling out a secondary weapon that they have not focused on will cut their DPS down, no question. But if the two alternatives are chase around like Benny Hill and swing and miss all the time vs pull out any sort of ranged attack (could be simple returner even) and getting something is better than nothing. However, if one really starts looking into the numbers, the differences are not that extreme in terms of engagement time required to defeat mobs. If we were to start that good ole dps clock so often used as soon as one sees the mob and includes the time taken to close with and engage the mob, the hand to hand melee loses quite a bit compared to the ranged attacker who can start the damage dealing on first sight of the enemy.

[Snormal]

ummm engage in hyperbole much?..

Yes for most characters pulling out a secondary weapon that they have not focused on will cut their DPS down, no question. But if the two alternatives are chase around like Benny Hill and swing and miss all the time vs pull out any sort of ranged attack (could be simple returner even) and getting something is better than nothing. However, if one really starts looking into the numbers, the differences are not that extreme in terms of engagement time required to defeat mobs. If we were to start that good ole dps clock so often used as soon as one sees the mob and includes the time taken to close with and engage the mob, the hand to hand melee loses quite a bit compared to the ranged attacker who can start the damage dealing on first sight of the enemy.

So you're basically saying 5-11 people should adapt to your play-style and cater to you being an archer rather than you adapting and catering to the majority being melees?

And yeah, it was hyperbole, but there's a reason I (and just about everyone I know) consider archers a wasted slot until they prove themselves exceptional. 9 times out of 10 they bring less to a party than a similar melee could have.

[Snormal]

10% is better than 0% in the case of a silly kiter.

100% without a silly kiter is better than 10%.

edit: I should mention that I don't actually dislike archers, I just dislike BAD archers, and especially BAD archers that expect you to adapt to them being bad archers.

[Chris79]

Oooooo sounds like shortbows at dawn!